Post-Game Talk: Pens 3, Panthers 2 - Now THAT Is What A 6M Winger Looks Like

[Night Shift]

Maybe I am being overly pessimistic but I just don’t see us signing Skinner even at something like $8.5. I don’t even know if I would want a winger at that valuation due to the term that will most likely need to be attached to it.

But if we were to get somebody like Skinner I am also fine with wholesaling Kessel and a couple dmen.

Maybe my memory is off but if IIRC..didn't he have a NTC in Carolina and was willing to waive to come here a couple years ago?

 

[Beauner]

It's unreal to me how Jake's career has taken off. Relatively unknown kid, drafted as a "Shero special", i.e. a smaller American center with no real exceptional qualities. Then he starts to perform well in WBS, gets a call up, plays really well but is sent down shortly after. Next time he's up, he's just absolutely ripping it up alongside Sid. Records set in the playoffs as a rookie, etc. Crazy stuff.

The term diamond in the rough is a bit cliche, but Jake's rise from a pretty nondescript guy in the middle rounds of a draft to one of the best young wingers in the game is absolutely fantastic. I'd imagine he'd have quite a few more points and goals if we didn't have to use him as a center for a bit in the wake of Bonino's departure.

He started showing signs of being a great player in college. If I remember correctly people here were excited for him to turn pro. When he was drafed I'd say he was relatively unknown. But he developed really nicely after his draft year

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Missed the game. Reading through this thread it looks like our physical defense is looking decent and ZAR sucks again?

I wouldn’t say ZAR sucked, he’s just kind of there like Pearson was, except he will have a nice hit every couple games. He does little things that help his line and he is pretty good in his own zone. His board play still isn’t very good, but it’s leaps and bounds better than earlier in the season.

His vision continues to be my biggest concern, much like with McCann.

I wouldn’t say he’s hurting his line or making it better, he’s just kind of breaking even like Pearson did. If Kessel wasn’t so snakebitten, the results would probably look much better on paper.

 

[Peat]

Maybe my memory is off but if IIRC..didn't he have a NTC in Carolina and was willing to waive to come here a couple years ago?

He had a full NTC, yeah. Don't know about a few years ago but this year there was serious noise about trading for him, so presumably he was okay with coming here... but maybe not with signing an extension. Heavily rumoured he wants to be as close as possible to his home in South Ontario, which puts Buffalo in a great position for keeping him.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Maybe my memory is off but if IIRC..didn't he have a NTC in Carolina and was willing to waive to come here a couple years ago?

I thought he went to Buffalo because he wasn't willing to waive to come here?

 

[KIRK]

I wouldn’t say ZAR sucked, he’s just kind of there like Pearson was, except he will have a nice hit every couple games. He does little things that help his line and he is pretty good in his own zone. His board play still isn’t very good, but it’s leaps and bounds better than earlier in the season.

His vision continues to be my biggest concern, much like with McCann.

I wouldn’t say he’s hurting his line or making it better, he’s just kind of breaking even like Pearson did. If Kessel wasn’t so snakebitten, the results would probably look much better on paper.

Not having Schultz behind also has hurt. It's back to the hand grenade pairings.

When you have 2 defensemen treating a puck like a hand grenade, ZAR breaking even (instead of doing more than that during his little stretch), and Phil snakebitten, it adds up to a discombobulated Geno trusting nobody (not without justification, but still) and imploding. The implicit message is 'play smart even if it means accomplishing nothing given the absence of help' and 'make it happen by yourself', and that's a lose-lose proposition.

 

[Peat]

Not having Schultz behind also has hurt. It's back to the hand grenade pairings.

When you have 2 defensemen treating a puck like a hand grenade, ZAR breaking even (instead of doing more than that during his little stretch), and Phil snakebitten, it adds up to a discombobulated Geno trusting nobody (not without justification, but still) and imploding. The implicit message is 'play smart even if it means accomplishing nothing given the absence of help' and 'make it happen by yourself', and that's a lose-lose proposition.

I wouldn't be surprised if ZAR mysteriously starts firing again the moment Letang is back and Schultz goes back to being Geno's support.

 

[KIRK]

I wouldn't be surprised if ZAR mysteriously starts firing again the moment Letang is back and Schultz goes back to being Geno's support.

Honestly, that's our only hope at some point. Geno is older, but he still can make due with less. But, making due with less isn't the same thing as making due with next to nothing.

Yeah, I think you're right, Schultz will open things up for L2 when Letang is back, which SHOULD put ZAR in a better position to make plays to help out, which in turn will (finally/again) help Geno out. Then the only question is Phil, because he's not leaving L2.

 

[UnrealMachine]

It's unreal to me how Jake's career has taken off. Relatively unknown kid, drafted as a "Shero special", i.e. a smaller American center with no real exceptional qualities. Then he starts to perform well in WBS, gets a call up, plays really well but is sent down shortly after. Next time he's up, he's just absolutely ripping it up alongside Sid. Records set in the playoffs as a rookie, etc. Crazy stuff.

The term diamond in the rough is a bit cliche, but Jake's rise from a pretty nondescript guy in the middle rounds of a draft to one of the best young wingers in the game is absolutely fantastic. I'd imagine he'd have quite a few more points and goals if we didn't have to use him as a center for a bit in the wake of Bonino's departure.

This isn't really an accurate portrayal at all. He had an excellent draft year in the USHL and outscored his nearest teammate by 30+ points. He was drafted way later than his skillset would dictate due to him being considerably undersized in both his frame and overall muscle mass. Then he had an excellent collegiate career and was considered one of our top prospects before crushing it in WBS as well. The only questionable quality he had was to what his ultimate NHL size would be.

 

[Andy99]

Honestly, that's our only hope at some point. Geno is older, but he still can make due with less. But, making due with less isn't the same thing as making due with next to nothing.

Yeah, I think you're right, Schultz will open things up for L2 when Letang is back, which SHOULD put ZAR in a better position to make plays to help out, which in turn will (finally/again) help Geno out. Then the only question is Phil, because he's not leaving L2.

G would have had at least two points last night if it wasn’t for Phil...except for his stupid O zone penalties, he was fine...

 

[HandshakeLine]

Wasn't Skinner part of that trade that Carolina's ownership had a huge hissy fit and torpedoed for reasons? I might be getting my weird Carolina drama mixed up though.

 

[BHD]

When was the last time Crosby played this much of a 200-foot game? Therrien? The Hart is up for debate, but he should definitely be a front-runner for the Selke.

 

[NMK11]

When was the last time Crosby played this much of a 200-foot game? Therrien? The Hart is up for debate, but he should definitely be a front-runner for the Selke.

As much of a reputation award as it seems to be, you'd think he'd get a nomination.

 

[ChaosAgent]

When was the last time Crosby played this much of a 200-foot game? Therrien? The Hart is up for debate, but he should definitely be a front-runner for the Selke.

Sid has never been this good of a 2-way player. He's nearly 2008 Datsyuk but with some of that extra Sid-specialness mixed in right now.

 

[Peat]

This isn't really an accurate portrayal at all. He had an excellent draft year in the USHL and outscored his nearest teammate by 30+ points. He was drafted way later than his skillset would dictate due to him being considerably undersized in both his frame and overall muscle mass. Then he had an excellent collegiate career and was considered one of our top prospects before crushing it in WBS as well. The only questionable quality he had was to what his ultimate NHL size would be.

I think there's some Top 20 polls here that say that not everyone agreed with this over the years.

 

[UnrealMachine]

I think there's some Top 20 polls here that say that not everyone agreed with this over the years.

He didn't reach Eric Tangradi (fan) poll levels until after he consistently performed well every season at UNO. That doesn't change the fact that he was always a highly skilled hockey player, even pre-draft.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Maybe I am being overly pessimistic but I just don’t see us signing Skinner even at something like $8.5. I don’t even know if I would want a winger at that valuation due to the term that will most likely need to be attached to it.

But if we were to get somebody like Skinner I am also fine with wholesaling Kessel and a couple dmen.

Term for a great young player is usually preferable. Skinner's only 26...an 8 year deal would take him to 34. That would be pretty much ideal.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

+The Jake and Sid show

+Murray only let 2 pucks in

-It was kind of sad that we barely beat the Panthers

It was sadder when we lost to them 3-2 in OT last time...

 

[HandshakeLine]

I keep forgetting that Skinner is as young as he is. For some reason, I always think he's in his mid-30s.

 

[SouthGeorge]

Worst game of the 4. They didn't look good until the 2nd period when they made the obvious changes I said before the game and put Dumo/Trot on 3rd line and some 2nd line duties. How do you take JJ/Schultz away from Line 1 with how well they have been doing the last 4 games? I guess the fear is once the odd man rush twins are back you can't put them with a less defensively minded line like Malkins.

I know they will never do it because of egos but honestly.. I'd do JJ/Schultz, Petts/Gud, and Dumo/Letang on 3rd line. That would be a way better balance of lines. Maybe juggling the wingers isn't what's needed. JJ/Schultz with Crosbys line has looked great. Malkins line needs a more defensive minded pair and Petts/Gud looked good when playing with them. Then Dumo/Letang could be more aggressive against 3rd liners without the fear of giving up goals. They might be able to produce more against 3rd liners and would get the 3rd line going.

 

[Extra Texture]

Wasn't Skinner part of that trade that Carolina's ownership had a huge hissy fit and torpedoed for reasons? I might be getting my weird Carolina drama mixed up though.

I'm interested in hearing more about this. Did we have something lined up to get him pre-Rutherford? Or was this more recently and it got scuppered because Karmanos hates JR?

I also found it surprising that Skinner was 26 right now. That means 27 on July 1st. If he were 28 or 29 I'd be much more hesitant, but at 27 suddenly a massive 7 year deal doesnt seem like as much of a franchise killer.

And looking at the crop out there (once you take Stone and Panarin away), he just might be the best fit here by far.

I wouldn’t say ZAR sucked, he’s just kind of there like Pearson was, except he will have a nice hit every couple games. He does little things that help his line and he is pretty good in his own zone. His board play still isn’t very good, but it’s leaps and bounds better than earlier in the season.

His vision continues to be my biggest concern, much like with McCann.

I wouldn’t say he’s hurting his line or making it better, he’s just kind of breaking even like Pearson did. If Kessel wasn’t so snakebitten, the results would probably look much better on paper.

If that is ZAR's low ebb this season, so be it. I never expected him to never regress from his play a few weeks ago, but if he can maintain and not look completely lost when his line is not clicking, I will take that.

Its still shocking to me that Zach Aston-Reese has all of 56 NHL reg season games under his belt. It just feels like he's been around longer. But based on how he's adapted this season and just knew his job really well on L2, I'm confident he's gonna stick here.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'm interested in hearing more about this. Did we have something lined up to get him pre-Rutherford? Or was this more recently and it got scuppered because Karmanos hates JR?

I also found it surprising that Skinner was 26 right now. That means 27 on July 1st. If he were 28 or 29 I'd be much more hesitant, but at 27 suddenly a massive 7 year deal doesnt seem like as much of a franchise killer.

And looking at the crop out there (once you take Stone and Panarin away), he just might be the best fit here by far.



If that is ZAR's low ebb this season, so be it. I never expected him to never regress from his play a few weeks ago, but if he can maintain and not look completely lost when his line is not clicking, I will take that.

Its still shocking to me that Zach Aston-Reese has all of 56 NHL reg season games under his belt. It just feels like he's been around longer. But based on how he's adapted this season and just knew his job really well on L2, I'm confident he's gonna stick here.

The org is determined to make him a top six winger because of his grit, so he’s gotten tons of leeway and mostly unearned promotions into the top six.

Like I said back in Sept, I was warned this was coming, but it was still frustrating as hell because he looked like ass, and his board play was so atrocious.

Now that he looks competent on the boards, I figure whatever, let’s see what happens. I don’t think he’s a top six guy (or McCann for that matter), but there is no one really else to put in those spots with Rust out.

I guess you could put Simon in one of those spots, but then the third line would have zero creativity if it was comprised of wingers like ZAR, Hornqvist and McCann.

That’s why it blows Rust went down. He was really turning into a legit top six winger with his extremely improved vision.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Kessel looks like he's close to breaking through. I was worried when he wasn't even generating anything, I'm certain now that if he gets one or two the floodgates will open. Good to see him getting more involved in board play and puck battles. Having him going will help the PP tremendously too.

Johnson played a much cleaner game than he has recently. Even made a couple nice plays at the bluelines. Gudbranson makes me nervous every time he turns back with the puck but no big mistakes this game. Schultz is rounding into form pretty quickly too.

Can't say enough about Sid and Guentzel.

Yeah, Phil is playing incrementally better each game now, if he gets 5 shots a game, he'll break out soon and get back to normal. Nice to see the fans supporting him last night. The much maligned general fan base is sometimes much wiser than the illuminati on internet message boards.

All the usual whipping boys have been playing pretty darn well. Love how they have circled the wagons without the missing players.

 

[Gurglesons]

When was the last time Crosby played this much of a 200-foot game? Therrien? The Hart is up for debate, but he should definitely be a front-runner for the Selke.

I don’t see him winning a Selke over Barkov or O’Reilly, but if he continues to produce and gets into the top 3 in terms of points, I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets the Hart and Lindsey which would be so great and basically solidify him as a top five legacy player.

 

[SEALBound]

CBJ and NYI barely beat NJD and OTT respectively, Florida is actually a decent team when they get good goaltending.

I think something that people refuse to acknowledge or understand is the tremendous amount of parity the league currently has. The difference between a playoff team and a non-playoff team right now is that THAT great of a difference. At least, conpared to previous years. 1st in Metro to 2WC is a short winning or losing streak of 3-4 games with about 10-12 of the 15 teams in the mix.

Beating or losing to a playoff or non-playoff team right now is all the same to me. Once those playoffs starts...whole new ball game. No matter where you finish, you have to bring it. We can still bring it with the beat of them, dont kid yourselves. We need a few more fixes a d tweaks...and some health. Will be an interesting playoff year thats for sure.