Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Youth movement is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face"

[Buddy Bizarre]

My question is: why is Nylander in any kind of role at all?

It's not much of an improvement but I think Nylander is better than whatever Harkins attempts to do on the ice

 

[Andy99]

It's not much of an improvement but I think Nylander is better than whatever Harkins attempts to do on the ice

Neither should be up…why didn’t we try to pick up Beauvillier when the Canucks were shopping him?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Neither should be up…why didn’t we try to pick up Beauvillier when the Canucks were shopping him?

Putting aside any additions from outside, I'm annoyed that they keep "recycling" Nylander and Harkins. Bring up other players from WBS.

 

[SEALBound]

Also it wasn't very long ago this team had a great track record when it came to rehabbing struggling defensemen. Schultz was basically our #1 dman during the 2017 run and what did we pay for him again, a 3rd?

Indeed. We rehabbed Ceci recently too. I think more of that is - "hey, you failed at being the #1 or #2D on your team. Come to our team and play on the bottom pairing with sheltered minutes". Then they regain form and confidence. We can easily say that for Niskanen, Schultz, and Ceci. I also think a big part of that was Gonchar being an assistant coach who took extra time to work with them. I really wish we hadn't canned him with the others.

Neither should be up…why didn’t we try to pick up Beauvillier when the Canucks were shopping him?

Chicago had the ability to take the full $4mil+ cap hit. We couldn't have done that.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Putting aside any additions from outside, I'm annoyed that they keep "recycling" Nylander and Harkins. Bring up other players from WBS.

No one else other than Puustinen is healthy. Poulin and Colin White would have been options, but they're both out.

 

[Andy99]

Indeed. We rehabbed Ceci recently too. I think more of that is - "hey, you failed at being the #1 or #2D on your team. Come to our team and play on the bottom pairing with sheltered minutes". Then they regain form and confidence. We can easily say that for Niskanen, Schultz, and Ceci. I also think a big part of that was Gonchar being an assistant coach who took extra time to work with them. I really wish we hadn't canned him with the others.

Chicago had the ability to take the full $4mil+ cap hit. We couldn't have done that.

Yeah I know about Beauvillier’s cap hit but we have Rakell on LTIR and put Carter on it FFS and we’d have plenty atm…trade Rakell down the road

 

[HandshakeLine]

I heard he won the team Mario Kart tournament and didn't participate in the handshake line after.

It's true. I got more bodies than a Chinese cemetery.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Neither should be up…why didn’t we try to pick up Beauvillier when the Canucks were shopping him?

Yeah I know about Beauvillier’s cap hit but we have Rakell on LTIR and put Carter on it FFS and we’d have plenty atm…trade Rakell down the road

Minus the cap hit.

1. Rakell will be back and we won't be able to activate him when healthy regarding cap space.

2. There's a process with the league regarding LTIR and as much as I'd like to put Carter on LTIR he has to have a problem that is severe enough to put him on one.

 

[Andy99]

Minus the cap hit.

1. Rakell will be back and we won't be able to activate him when healthy regarding cap space.

2. There's a process with the league regarding LTIR and as much as I'd like to put Carter on LTIR he has to have a problem that is severe enough to put him on one.

Someone needs to shoot a puck at his kneecap as he’s practicing net front on the PP at practice…it’s not too difficult…

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Someone needs to shoot a puck at his kneecap as he’s practicing net front on the PP at practice…it’s not too difficult…

I'm personally not a fan of wishing injury on anyone. I would love if he went on LTIR though for a skin rash...

Canucks were in a bind and Chicago needed a player. A 5th round pick was solid for the Nucks.

--

I think a major problem is the amount of assets we threw away in the Hextall era. Yes did Rutherford throw away assets? Yes he did. Did Hextall do worse? Also Yes.

We have to get creative and I think Dubas did with the Karlsson trade.
I think we need another creative move that can work for us. I truly believe he is looking for one. It's just tough to throw more assets at a team outside the playoffs looking in.

 

[HandshakeLine]

EK65 is a great example of how it's not always the pieces, it's how you use them. I think Dubas made some great moves this offseason, but that doesn't mean squat if we try to use EK as a shutdown defender.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm personally not a fan of wishing injury on anyone. I would love if he went on LTIR though for a skin rash...

Canucks were in a bind and Chicago needed a player. A 5th round pick was solid for the Nucks.

--

I think a major problem is the amount of assets we threw away in the Hextall era. Yes did Rutherford throw away assets? Yes he did. Did Hextall do worse? Also Yes.

We have to get creative and I think Dubas did with the Karlsson trade.
I think we need another creative move that can work for us. I truly believe he is looking for one. It's just tough to throw more assets at a team outside the playoffs looking in.

What assets did Hextall throw away lol?

He made one bad trade for Granlund. Everything else was nothing burgers.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yeah, I don't think Hextall did bad in trades besides the Granlund one, that was horrific. He was pretty wretched in the Carter signing and the Sullivan extension, and bobbled the Geno / Letang negotiations (but was saved in the end).

 

[chethejet]

I do think it comes down to what Dubas and Spezza see as to what is the issue. Is it coaching as to PP, or players or both. Next is Dubas brought in Karlsson to play a certain way. No cap space can be dealt with with one move. I don't trade Rakell and Rust still has a NMC. Look I like Acciari in a 3rw role. I am not sure 4th line with who is left works. Maybe Poulin when healthy is up to play 4th line center. I pound the table to move Jake and open up cap space to add a RD with some grit. I like rutta but anyne like him will do. Unload Ruhwedel, POJ and you dont have as much cap tied up in marginal players. Shea and Ludwig can rotate the 3rd pairing to me. Move to move Jake to the Preds with a million retention for Trenin and a pick. Carter goes unless he still wants to play in LA. .
Smith Sid Rakell
Trenin Geno Rust
DOC Lars Acciari
Nieto Poulin White

 

[KrisLetAngry]

What assets did Hextall throw away lol?

He made one bad trade for Granlund. Everything else was nothing burgers.

I know we have differing opinions. Matheson and Marino both were undersold. I fully believe we traded the cheaper younger better player in Matheson.

Marino we have strongly differing views. A top 4 RD are worth more he has done great for New Jersey.

 

[SEALBound]

What assets did Hextall throw away lol?

He made one bad trade for Granlund. Everything else was nothing burgers.

The vast majority of stuff we've thrown away has been nothing burgers. There aren't too many instances where we were wrong for going for the win-now impact player.

My issue with Hextall's wheeling and dealing was that he appeared to have the negotiating skills of Peter Griffen or Homer Simpson. 2nd+3rd for Carter...2nd for Grandlund...2nd+Clang for UFA Rakell...Marino for Smith and only a 3rd...bringing in Kulikov and Bonino...and I'm still wishy-washy on the Matheson for Petry deal overall.

At least with Rutherford and Dubas, I can see the direct line of logic in their trades. About the only Hextall trade that made good sense was Rakell.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think Matheson and Marino are very good players that the Penguins effectively gave away for nothing, but I also don't think either of them are really "missed" on the Penguins defense. I think the only thing the Penguins are missing on their defense right now is POJ playing like he should be playing.

Personally, I really like Ludvig as the #6 and Shea as the #7. It's a bit frustrating to see Shea in every day, but I don't think they really have any other option. If POJ was playing like he could at a #5 level, I'd be extremely happy with this defense:

Graves-Letang
Pettersson-Karlsson
POJ-Ludvig
Shea

 

[Gurglesons]

I know we have differing opinions. Matheson and Marino both were undersold. I fully believe we traded the cheaper younger better player in Matheson.

Marino we have strongly differing views. A top 4 RD are worth more he has done great for New Jersey.

Marino brought back the most value of any cap dump that off season.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Marino brought back the most value of any cap dump that off season.

Yea I personally avoid conversations about Marino with you because he was not a cap dump.

Agree to disagree.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Idk since Matheson was traded, he has 13 goals and 49 points in 69 games while playing 24:34 a night for Montreal. Do I think he's that good? No, but they gave him away for an aged and bland Petry and a 4th line depth piece Poehling.

I don't miss him because they have Karlsson, but you'd have a pretty tough time arguing that the Matheson deal didn't end up completely awful for the Penguins.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Hextall protecting a near-37 year old Carter, a dude who sucked for years in LA before coming over and playing *clearly* unsustainable hockey, was also idiotic.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Back to some trade talks, this is 100% a guy I've brought up in the past but the powerplay woes makes me think more and more that acquiring Taylor Raddysh is a great idea. The big knock on him is that he's somewhat reliant on the powerplay to put up points, he had 20 goals and 37 points last year but only 12 goals and 20 points were at 5v5. That does yield a good 5v5 goal rate (0.71), but the point production rate (1.18) is terrible.

But why do I think he makes sense? He's 6'3" and a terrific net front guy on the powerplay. Raddysh had 7 powerplay goals and 15 powerplay points last year, and he had some 5v5 goals as a net front guy as well:



Well over half of his goals last season were from no further out than the slot, and he had a ton of tip-in and net front goals as well. I'm not sure he fits exactly what I want to add for that 3rd line RW spot, but you damn well know that both PP1 and PP2 need a net front guy on it.

I'd be concerned about adding another Acciari like 5v5 producer (aka he puts up good goal totals but shit assist totals), but you can't deny that Raddysh is just a menace around the net and that's pretty clearly a major need for the team. And if Sullivan wants to be concerned about his PKing fetish, Raddysh is averaging 2 minutes a night on Chicago's PK this year so you know he can do that.

Raddysh's production is down this year (only 3 goals and 5 points in 20 games), but I don't believe he's on Chicago's top PP unit anymore. He's being used more like a 3rd liner, 2nd PP unit and PK unit type of forward this year.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Double posting here, but Raddysh was bumped from Chicago's top PP unit because of the Perry addition. Raddysh is being used on Chicago's 2nd PP unit with guys like Athanasiou, Tyler Johnson and Kurashev. His powerplay production has stagnated but it's simply due to usage.

On that same topic, I'd want to know damn well what Perry did, but if he didn't do anything too egregious I'd 100% sign him for the top PP unit as well. He's old as shit, so he fits the team, plus he fills a big need as a PP net front guy. He actually had a really good start to the year with Chicago, so I think he still has it.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Back to some trade talks, this is 100% a guy I've brought up in the past but the powerplay woes makes me think more and more that acquiring Taylor Raddysh is a great idea. The big knock on him is that he's somewhat reliant on the powerplay to put up points, he had 20 goals and 37 points last year but only 12 goals and 20 points were at 5v5. That does yield a good 5v5 goal rate (0.71), but the point production rate (1.18) is terrible.

But why do I think he makes sense? He's 6'3" and a terrific net front guy on the powerplay. Raddysh had 7 powerplay goals and 15 powerplay points last year, and he had some 5v5 goals as a net front guy as well:



Well over half of his goals last season were from no further out than the slot, and he had a ton of tip-in and net front goals as well. I'm not sure he fits exactly what I want to add for that 3rd line RW spot, but you damn well know that both PP1 and PP2 need a net front guy on it.

I'd be concerned about adding another Acciari like 5v5 producer (aka he puts up good goal totals but shit assist totals), but you can't deny that Raddysh is just a menace around the net and that's pretty clearly a major need for the team. And if Sullivan wants to be concerned about his PKing fetish, Raddysh is averaging 2 minutes a night on Chicago's PK this year so you know he can do that.

Raddysh's production is down this year (only 3 goals and 5 points in 20 games), but I don't believe he's on Chicago's top PP unit anymore. He's being used more like a 3rd liner, 2nd PP unit and PK unit type of forward this year.

I mean if you added a player that is a slight net negative at ES but he improves the PP, it's a total win for the Pens. They are generally carrying 5 v 5 play so adding a slightly less competent player there doesn't buckle them.

The PP is literally costing them a playoff spot. So they better change personnel or tactics.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I mean if you added a player that is a slight net negative at ES but he improves the PP, it's a total win for the Pens. They are generally carrying 5 v 5 play so adding a slightly less competent player there doesn't buckle them.

The PP is literally costing them a playoff spot. So they better change personnel or tactics.

Yeah 100% agreed here. He's not a perfectly ideal guy, but he fills such a major need for the team that I can easily overlook him being another Acciari at 5v5.

I think you can make a pretty compelling case to just try Acciari in the role you'd want to use Raddysh in (3rd line RW and PP net front guy) to begin with. Does it suck that he doesn't put up a great amount of points at 5v5? Yeah, but the team is a top-5 team in 5v5 goal production this year.