Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "But if you don't get the President of the Pittsburgh Penguins on that phone, you know what's gonna happen to you?"

[SEALBound]

I don't think it's this year with coaching that really matters. I think anyone who is brought in if Sullivan is fired will take the Bylsma approach which is - keep the basic system with minor tweaks to address system weaknesses and then hope for the best. It's the plans for next season that would be more worrisome unless there was a plan in place that seemed fool proof.

I don't think BB would be a good coach here anymore. If you have Sid, Geno, Letang, and Karlsson in their primes where they can really carry the water offensively then I think BB could put a good system in place but I have doubts that BB's tendencies would work for the same reasons that we see it not working for Sullivan.

I honestly don't know who could step in and be a good coach here. I think at this place, it's so much more on the players, specifically Jarry, than anything else. If they aren't executing, all of the coaching in the world won't matter. That's why I don't really care about coaching and PP. We see the exact same thing game after game, year after year. What are you realistically going to do? Bench Crosby, Malkin, Karlsson, Letang, etc? It goes against your better interest because the #2 or #3 PP would be far less likely to score than the random successes of the #1 PP. It's a cultural and leadership decision to get better that HAS to come from Sid, Geno, Letang, Karlsson, etc. Reirden and Sullivan are just collecting paychecks on the PP front. Their existence is irrelevant.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

FYI shutting down any sort of conversation to bitch about Mike Sullivan is a great way to push people away from this website.

The Penguins have no cap space, no notable players in WBS worth a damn and very few tradeable assets. Talking about buy-low guys like Ylonen is completely reasonable to discuss potential additions.

If you're referring to me, I didn't mean it in a "you CAN'T talk about this. I forbid it" way. I meant it in a "what's the point when we know Sullivan won't give that unproven-but-potential guy a chance in a key role" way.

By all means, mention unproven players we should acquire. But let's be realistic about how much rope Sullivan would give a guy unless he already comes with a long resume. To get an actual shot in a key role here, the player has to have a track record. Otherwise, welcome to the bottom six getting dumb defensive deployment until you can prove you're ZAR first.

 

[SEALBound]

Okay, see point 2. Why should we assume this "no track record but some potential" player would be given a chance by Sullivan to play in an actual role where he could reach the potential?

I imagine that if Dubas makes a trade for such a player, it would be a decision that has been discussed in detail with Sullivan and the coaching crew, so there would already be buy-in from Sullivan to play said player in that position. Now if it doesn't work for a period of time, Sullivan is well within his rights as a coach to make the change. Like he gave Harkins the chance, he sucked and got booted.

I don't think Dubas just brings in guys hoping that Sullivan will play them. That was a the criticism of Hextall.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I don't think it's this year with coaching that really matters. I think anyone who is brought in if Sullivan is fired will take the Bylsma approach which is - keep the basic system with minor tweaks to address system weaknesses and then hope for the best. It's the plans for next season that would be more worrisome unless there was a plan in place that seemed fool proof.

I don't think BB would be a good coach here anymore. If you have Sid, Geno, Letang, and Karlsson in their primes where they can really carry the water offensively then I think BB could put a good system in place but I have doubts that BB's tendencies would work for the same reasons that we see it not working for Sullivan.

I honestly don't know who could step in and be a good coach here. I think at this place, it's so much more on the players, specifically Jarry, than anything else. If they aren't executing, all of the coaching in the world won't matter. That's why I don't really care about coaching and PP. We see the exact same thing game after game, year after year. What are you realistically going to do? Bench Crosby, Malkin, Karlsson, Letang, etc? It goes against your better interest because the #2 or #3 PP would be far less likely to score than the random successes of the #1 PP. It's a cultural and leadership decision to get better that HAS to come from Sid, Geno, Letang, Karlsson, etc. Reirden and Sullivan are just collecting paychecks on the PP front. Their existence is irrelevant.

The thing is, how do we know if we never replace the coach? Maybe no coach can fix this mess and it ends up it's the players. But we can't find out if we just assume it's the players and keep Sullivan around because there's nothing a coach can do.

It just reminds me so much of the later Bylsma days when some were still reluctant about Bylsma being fired and the argument being "it's not his fault Crosby/Malkin lose their shit in the playoffs" or "It's not his fault Fleury is a headcase". "It's the players. Only so much a coach can do".

 

[Victor Z]

I imagine that if Dubas makes a trade for such a player, it would be a decision that has been discussed in detail with Sullivan and the coaching crew

I imagine that too.... up to the point where the player who is acquired turns out to suck. Then Sully and the winged monkeys who defend him will put it all on the GM.

For example: there's no way on earth that Ron Hextall got it into his pea-sized brain ALL BY HIMSELF to go out and get Mikael Granlund at last year's TDL while keeping his plan a secret from the rest of the organization.

There's no way that Sully was kept in the dark; he undoubtedly was consulted and gave his blessing to having Granlund on the team. The best that could perhaps be said for Sully's role in that travesty was that maybe he didn't tell Hextall to go out and give Nashville a #2 pick AND not even ask for any salary retention.

Of course Granlund turned out to be exactly what everyone already knew he was -- soft, timid and allergic to playing defense or shooting the puck.

No wonder they thought he'd fit right in there.

When the worst case scenario happened with Granlund THEN Hextall got 100% of the blame when he only deserved at most 50%.

Something similar could easily happen again if Dubas tries for a big splash and comes up all wet.

 

[The Old Master]

What

Literally no one is saying you're not allowed to discuss coaching issues. It's just rude to shut down another irrelevant conversation because "who cares, Mike Sullivan sucks!".

hard to stop a starving man from thinking about food, no matter what else you try to talk about.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If you're referring to me, I didn't mean it in a "you CAN'T talk about this. I forbid it" way. I meant it in a "what's the point when we know Sullivan won't give that unproven-but-potential guy a chance in a key role" way.

By all means, mention unproven players we should acquire. But let's be realistic about how much rope Sullivan would give a guy unless he already comes with a long resume. To get an actual shot in a key role here, the player has to have a track record. Otherwise, welcome to the bottom six getting dumb defensive deployment until you can prove you're ZAR first.

Their bottom pair right now is Shea-Ludvig, who had 0 games of NHL experience before this year. They're relying a lot on Zohorna on L3, who has under 50 games of NHL experience. O'Connor is currently playing on L1 and he's under a season of games of NHL experience.

We're talking about the 3rd line RW spot. I don't see why Ylonen is somehow not a guy that Sullivan would give a chance to.

 

[SomeDude]

FYI shutting down any sort of conversation to bitch about Mike Sullivan is a great way to push people away from this website.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Kaprizov for Guentzel and something else. Do it Billy G.

Ohhh this makes me feel a certain way

Or-

Guentzel for Hyman

Rakell and hella picks for Kaprizov

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Mike Sullivan is not this teams biggest issue

(But to be fair canning him is a lot easier than changing the roster)

 

[Turin]

Todd Reirden is worse than Sullivan, but with how hockey staffs work Sullivan still shares blame for Reirdens terrible job.

Ohhh this makes me feel a certain way

Or-

Guentzel for Hyman

Rakell and hella picks for Kaprizov

I mean obviously I would do it. I would only do the first one contingent on the 2nd though. I don't think the Pens have enough picks lol.

 

[Darren McCord]

Their bottom pair right now is Shea-Ludvig, who had 0 games of NHL experience before this year. They're relying a lot on Zohorna on L3, who has under 50 games of NHL experience. O'Connor is currently playing on L1 and he's under a season of games of NHL experience.

We're talking about the 3rd line RW spot. I don't see why Ylonen is somehow not a guy that Sullivan would give a chance t

Ylonen is the same age as puustinen and they have similar AHL numbers. I just don’t understand trading for him before giving puustinen a cup of coffee.

Im just not convince ylonen gets the same chance here he gets in MTL

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Todd Reirden is worse than Sullivan, but with how hockey staffs work Sullivan still shares blame for Reirdens terrible job.

Don’t even think it’s Reirden. This teams biggest problem is talent. We would be ridiculously good if you weren’t relying on 87/71 to carry you to victory night in and out like they’re 26 again. Imagine an actual top flight player or 2 instead of Rust, Guentzel, Smith and Rakell to take the pressure off of them and allow Sid and Geno to be complimentary some nights. As constructed; all of the top 6 W have to be playing well to score consistently. None can take over a shift. Pens have to rely on 35+ Malkin and Crosby to create against top lines over and over and over. They’re still high end players but it’s not a recipe for sustained success.

There’s a reason Erik Karlsson looks so ridiculously good; it’s because this team has had no legitimate high end talent since 87/71 were in their primes.

I would still fire Sullivan & co. because it’s the only realistic way to shake up this team; but I’m also trying to swing a massive trade or two if I’m Dubas.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Buy low players would be cool

But we can't afford the picks or our low players going out to try, really, either

At least, i would rather just try a different staff now... If that shit still stinks, THEN let's do the gymnastics that acquiring other players will be

I mean, look at the call up send down silliness we're already playing every other day to fudge the cap

But, i also don't trust MTL fans to sell us on a player lol

 

[Empoleon8771]

Ylonen is the same age as puustinen and they have similar AHL numbers. I just don’t understand trading for him before giving puustinen a cup of coffee.

Im just not convince ylonen gets the same chance here he gets in MTL

Ylonen has shown he can handle it in the NHL while Puustinen hasn't.

Ylonen has shown he can put up good results in a defensive assignment while putting up points at the NHL level. Puustinen hasn't shown he can handle the defensive responsibilities of a bottom-6, nor has he shown he can produce at the NHL. The fact that they're the same age just makes it more obvious to go with the more proven guy.

Buy low players would be cool

But we can't afford the picks or our low players going out to try, really, either

At least, i would rather just try a different staff now... If that shit still stinks, THEN let's do the gymnastics that acquiring other players will be

What? They absolutely can afford that.

Saying "don't do anything before firing the coach" is dumb.

 

[BusinessGoose]

.

Saying "don't do anything before firing the coach" is dumb.

No. It isn't.

 

[canadianguy77]

Ylonen is the same age as puustinen and they have similar AHL numbers. I just don’t understand trading for him before giving puustinen a cup of coffee.

Im just not convince ylonen gets the same chance here he gets in MTL

I remember I drafted that dude in NHL 18 or 19. I think he tuned into a 91 or some shit. Straight up stud. He was a huge part of our 7 straight Stanley Cups.

 

[Empoleon8771]

No. It isn't.

Yes it is.

Even taking Sullivan out of the equation entirely, you can look at this roster and realize they need to make moves to address the holes there. It's completely dumb to refuse to address those holes just because Sullivan is here.

Your argument is basically an argument of "they shouldn't look to upgrade on Ruhwedel before firing Sullivan". No, I can look at Chad Ruhwedel and know they need way better than him even without firing Sullivan.

 

[T1K]

Ylonen has shown he can handle it in the NHL while Puustinen hasn't.

Ylonen has shown he can put up good results in a defensive assignment while putting up points at the NHL level. Puustinen hasn't shown he can handle the defensive responsibilities of a bottom-6, nor has he shown he can produce at the NHL. The fact that they're the same age just makes it more obvious to go with the more proven guy.



What? They absolutely can afford that.

Saying "don't do anything before firing the coach" is dumb.

What’s the deal with him? First google result was “from benched to hero” (from 2 days ago) because he only got 2 shifts in the 3rd vs the sharks and was the “hero” because he scored in the shootout. Why is he falling out of favor in MTL?

I’m all for new names, but a 24 yr old fringe NHLer isn’t really jumping out to me much.

 

[Darren McCord]

Ylonen has shown he can handle it in the NHL while Puustinen hasn't.

Ylonen has shown he can put up good results in a defensive assignment while putting up points at the NHL level. Puustinen hasn't shown he can handle the defensive responsibilities of a bottom-6, nor has he shown he can produce at the NHL. The fact that they're the same age just makes it more obvious to go with the more proven guy.

That's fine, you just have more faith in Sullivan to play him than I do. Smith showed he could handle the NHL yet they have gone with Shea, POJ and now Ludwig over him while he is in the AHL.

I just think if they move POJ for him, it better be clear sullivan will give him some rope.

 

[Fordy]

Ylonen has shown he can handle it in the NHL while Puustinen hasn't.

Ylonen has shown he can put up good results in a defensive assignment while putting up points at the NHL level. Puustinen hasn't shown he can handle the defensive responsibilities of a bottom-6, nor has he shown he can produce at the NHL. The fact that they're the same age just makes it more obvious to go with the more proven guy.



What? They absolutely can afford that.

Saying "don't do anything before firing the coach" is dumb.

as usual and proven this year, you have to actually play someone in the nhl to find out if they can handle the nhl responsibilities. zohorna showed it when he finally got a chance. once upon a time we found out 5 different ahl guys could handle themselves in the nhl in the same year we won a cup. but whatever, let's trade for a guy with the same numbers because he's a name of the week before we ever try our own guys

 

[Turin]

I like Ludvigs game. I think having another guy who's solid/safe on the right of him could make a nice bottom pairing and really fill out the defense. Preferably somebody bigger than Chad. That, and a Hagelin-esque player who can do a lot of dirty work/play responsibly and play up and down the lineup would be nice.

 

[Headshot77]

I mean, not wanting to discuss the obvious coaching issues is equally rude.

But more to the point, the only thing that brings people here is the team and the stars winning things. Let's not kid ourselves. We're in the decline, and it's only going to get worse, no matter what we talk about or don't talk about.

It's literally all that's discussed here. It's all that's been discussed here for 3 goddamn seasons. It's tiresome.

 

[HandshakeLine]

It's literally all that's discussed here. It's all that's been discussed here for 3 goddamn seasons. It's tiresome.

Clearly it is the fault of the fans that the team isn't winning enough.

Like I don't know what to tell you. The reason people talk about it is because it's a problem, I'm sorry if it's boring for you, but it's not like the hockey team is doing anything more interesting. Were the team was winning, nobody would care about the coaching.

Like I get the frustration in talking about the coaching and the team losing, but really, what else is there to discuss with this team? We are middling at best, we are underperforming, we have no prospects worth rooting for, and nobody in the organization seems to care about it.

I'd be happy to talk about the history of hockey or something, but it's not like a lot of the fans on this board really care about the non-Sid era.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Repetitive conversation does blow. Which is probably why I'm not around as much. There's minimal excitement, from me, for this team. The Karlsson addition certainly helps. But they haven't fixed what I think is the team's biggest issue & source of disappointment these last few seasons.

Instead of me talking about it over and over and over again I just don't talk about it.