Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread XVI: Marching to the TDL Edition

[Sidney the Kidney]

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

But they are the same player.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Remove Crouse's outlandish season this year tho'

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Not that it's necessarily a reason to acquire one over the other, but Crouse is both more physical and can/will drop the gloves compared to Paul. Paul's a big body but doesn't necessarily play a "big man's game".

In any case, I wouldn't spend a 1st on either guy. Those are the kinds of overpayments that end up haunting the Pens. We've already spent way too many firsts on middle six wingers, no sense adding a 3rd liner to the collection.

 

[Tender Rip]

Yes. This is literally what each of the last four cup winners did outside of St Louis adding ROR.

You cannot possibly argue that this is in any way meaningful when talking Tampa.

 

[Gurglesons]

You cannot possibly argue that this is in any way meaningful when talking Tampa.

Why not?

Stamkos, Kucherov, Point and Hedman were huge disappointments in 17-18 and 18-19 in the playoffs.

 

[Gurglesons]

Not that it's necessarily a reason to acquire one over the other, but Crouse is both more physical and can/will drop the gloves compared to Paul. Paul's a big body but doesn't necessarily play a "big man's game".

In any case, I wouldn't spend a 1st on either guy. Those are the kinds of overpayments that end up haunting the Pens. We've already spent way too many firsts on middle six wingers, no sense adding a 3rd liner to the collection.

Yes, Kapanen the ghost haunted us terribly today..

I also disagree with Crouse dropping the gloves. He fights, but the only heavy weight I recall him against is Maroon and he got his ass kicked.

Paul fed Voracek punches one time. That's good enough for me.

 

[Tender Rip]

Why not?

Stamkos, Kucherov, Point and Hedman were huge disappointments in 17-18 and 18-19 in the playoffs.

Stamkos Kucherov and Point were just about point per game over those two playoffs (17 games… 17,16,16). Hedman had 11. They had one year of getting stoned by Bobrovsky, then won the next two years.

The first one of those seasons you mention was Points rookie year. Kucherov was 23 or 24. We are talking about three-four years of our top 6 not getting it done, in the same anaemic fashion.
Tampa’s has, apart from one season where they looked awesome outside one series where a goalie went God mode. Also, before they broke through, at least they could argue time was on their side.
It’s totally unreasonable to compare.

 

[Gurglesons]

Stamkos Kucherov and Point were just about point per game over those two playoffs (17 games… 17,16,16). Hedman had 11. They had one year of getting stoned by Bobrovsky, then won the next two years.

The first one of those seasons you mention was Points rookie year. Kucherov was 23 or 24. We are talking about three-four years of our top 6 not getting it done, in the same anaemic fashion.
Tampa’s has, apart from one season where they looked awesome outside one series where a goalie went God mode. Also, before they broke through, at least they could argue time was on their side.
It’s totally unreasonable to compare.

Four years? Lol

Sid and Guentzel put up the best post season we’ve seen in years four years ago.

Tampa’s top six buckled in consecutive years on top of being a no show against us in 2016.

Let’s see what they do this year with the depth gone in the playoffs.

 

[Tender Rip]

Four years? Lol

Sid and Guentzel put up the best post season we’ve seen in years four years ago.

We as in Pens fans, sure, they were not a reason we lost against the Caps. Having nothing else going was.

Tampa’s top six buckled in consecutive years on top of being a no show against us in 2016.

My point is that our top players are older and have laid three consecutive eggs against Isles, Montreal and Isles. All of them matchups we were favored pretty heavily in, where we have gone out with a whimper and where the top line has mostly been contained by the same type of gritty shut down lines, not even opponent's best.

You point to Tampa who had "failings" like losing in 7 against us in 2016. The year before they went to the final. Losing in 7 to that Pens team can never be a failure with how good we were, more so when Stamkos - their then nr. 1 C - played just 1 game that post-season and they lost Bishop on the way... who had made us struggle a lot.

They missed the playoffs the next year when Stamkos pretty much lost the season. Then they "failed" in the conference finals in 2018 against the Caps - the eventual winners again - with the new core.... in 7 games again. And it wasn't because their top guys didn't contribute.

They kept faith with their Presidents winning core after the Columbus debacle, and got richly rewarded with consecutive championships.

I just don't think it is a fair or meaningful comparison at all. Circumstances are too different. You could talk about the Caps breaking through eventually while sticking to their aging guns, but it certainly makes no sense to use the same argument with Tampa.

Let’s see what they do this year with the depth gone in the playoffs.

Indeed. They've dealt with a few meaningful injuries of their own and are right there with us. Hard to see that they don't have depth either. Stamkos has been back to being a very good player and Cirelli, Joseph and Colton have bigger roles... and Perry dialing back the clock so far. Helps having the best goalie in the world also.

Tampa is an interesting case though, for my line of argument. Seems their attitude has been that if you aren't greatly skilled, you need to be big and physical to compliment they other guys they have, so at least you're hard to play. Has worked pretty well for them, it seems.

 

[Peat]

The forward core hasn't been fit the last two years. Geno played Montreal like he needed elbow surgery after (he did) and NYI on one leg. Sid played Montreal and NYI like he was recovering from a core injury (he was). Guentzel, same with the shoulder surgery. Despite that Sid and his line still showed vs Montreal, Geno and his line vs NYI. If we want to go back four years, they had Geno, Kessel, and Brassard as walking wounded going into the Caps. The 2019 Islanders series is the only one where fitness hasn't been a major issue, and that iteration of the team sucked.

This is the fittest they've looked since the season where things got shut down.

Also, as pointed out before, this team has never liked facing well-structured defensive teams, regardless of team make up or star form.

So yeah, I think it's reasonable to think there might be a different result despite running back largely similar lines (most of which haven't been run back consistently through the periods). And the point that teams often break through after trying largely the same lineup for a while isn't without merit.

I'd also add there's nothing new or unexpected about stars having quiet series in successful playoff runs. Stamkos had 1 ES point vs NYI last year. If Stamkos wasn't playing in front of a goalie playing with a .940 shooting percentage, maybe that ends up being something that sends them home. Geno had one ES point vs San Jose in '16, Guentzel one ES point vs Ottawa in '17. Maybe if we'd have strong goaltending vs Montreal and NYI, we'd have got through and the stars would have got back in form and we're talking a different story (we'd have almost certainly got through). If we'd had even average goaltending in those runs, we'd have one cup max.

I'd be happier if they'd mixed up a few things in the top six and looked less wedded to GCR. But it'd not an unreasonable idea that the personnel in this configuration can do it.

You wont. No cap then so Zohorna, DOC, Angello will all be available. Possible others depending on the situation. They have no cap to call up guys right now.

Doubt Sully is going to change which players he relies on after a full season.

Also, maybe Zohorna aside, I'm not sure why he should. Angello isn't definitely better than Simon and Boyle and hot start aside, neither is DOC. It'd take a bit of optimism to say they're definitely equal.

 

[Tender Rip]

@Peat

That’s fair. Would also say there are not many playoff teams this year that seem to fit the blueprint of what we don’t like to face. And less so in the East.

Anyway, I will always believe if our stars are healthy or close. It’s just been too rare. But we’ll see.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

This lineup is set up very well, you just need to get an upgrade on Zucker:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Zucker-Malkin-Kapanen
Heinen-Carter-Rodrigues
ZAR-Blueger-McGinn

Agreed.

If they are penny pinching and not giving up 1st rounders, I’d like to go after Drouin for that slot.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

ZAR out, retained on forward in, Zucker to third line. Heinen to grind line or patching the inevitable injury while Boyle/Simon fill in on the line grind line.

That’s a good way to get it done as well.

 

[Pens x]

Three straight years of playoff futility by Sid’s line isnt enough for this fan base. We want another one and done. They’ll be better this post season because of ummmm stuff. Lol at the attempted Tampa comparison. That would be like claiming Mike Sullivan might actually make adjustments in the playoffs because Jon Cooper did.

What Tampa did means nothing.

 

[Peat]

Would Laine be someone we could target? helps the PP out, don't remember what side he plays.

Think he plays both sides. Big obstacle to making him a target - even beyond the suspicion Sully won't like the way he plays 5v5 at all - is I really doubt Columbus will want to trade him here.

 

[PensandCaps]

Why not?

Stamkos, Kucherov, Point and Hedman were huge disappointments in 17-18 and 18-19 in the playoffs.

Stamkos, sure.

Point and Kucherov have always been money in the playoffs.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Hearing talk about physicality, Nashville, and Ottawa reminded me of Borowiecki. And here's his picture from NHL forecaster:

 

[HandshakeLine]

K but Kuhn was kinda legit. A shot blocking fiend who’d pull a skill play from his junior days out of his butt every 6 games.

They're all pretty much the same. Kuhn, Zoho, Simon, Cullen. That's half of my point. The other half is that guys like Kuhn who are only trusted to play 40-50 games in the regular season can sometimes be called up for all the postseason. It's not like they necessarily have to have some sort of talent or chemistry, they just have to do what they're told.

I'd just rather have a slightly different set of bottom 6 dorks with different skills than our hometown idiots.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Hearing talk about physicality, Nashville, and Ottawa reminded me of Borowiecki. And here's his picture from NHL forecaster:

I loved him in Nosferatu.

 

[Peat]

They're all pretty much the same. Kuhn, Zoho, Simon, Cullen. That's half of my point. The other half is that guys like Kuhn who are only trusted to play 40-50 games in the regular season can sometimes be called up for all the postseason. It's not like they necessarily have to have some sort of talent or chemistry, they just have to do what they're told.

I'd just rather have a slightly different set of bottom 6 dorks with different skills than our hometown idiots.

Wash you mouth out with soap.

 

[Flying Dego]

We should get a left handed shooting wing that's 6'6 can skate, has good hands, and dominates possession...

Normally this would cost a good bit you'd assume but alas all they have to do is ask Big Z to suit up.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Wash you mouth out with soap.

Never. I will nveer log of.

 

[K Fleur]

We should get a left handed shooting wing that's 6'6 can skate, has good hands, and dominates possession...

Normally this would cost a good bit you'd assume but alas all they have to do is ask Big Z to suit up.

McGinn and a 1st for Bjugstad

 

[Flying Dego]

McGinn and a 1st for Bjugstad

Done! You can tell by my avatar I miss Big Bad Bjugstad. No one could get injured like he could.

 

[Tender Rip]

We should get a left handed shooting wing that's 6'6 can skate, has good hands, and dominates possession...

Normally this would cost a good bit you'd assume but alas all they have to do is ask Big Z to suit up.

Liked because.

 

[Turin]

Yeah he’d be someone I’d target:

He’s the kind a player who could kinda blow up in Pittsburgh and he’s not having a great year for Seattle (like everyone, lol Hakstol)

 

[MayorofWBS]

I'm sure things will go great again in the playoffs. We shouldn't change a thing. There is no reason to when the aging core is mostly past prime and hasn't done a thing for 4 years straight. I mean, Tampa just proved that a older core in their mid 30s can win it all. Just need to be patient....I'm sure this is just a phase and we be world beaters this year. I mean talent rises to the top.