Salary Cap: Penguins salary cap and line up thread

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The only one I'm iffy on coming back is Letang. Rust is gone, and Geno is a lock to re-sign, imo. Letang may want to test FA before deciding, and if he does, he'll get offers we shouldn't match.

 

[jmelm]

The only one I'm iffy on coming back is Letang. Rust is gone, and Geno is a lock to re-sign, imo. Letang may want to test FA before deciding, and if he does, he'll get offers we shouldn't match.

But besides maybe Montreal, who do you see offering Letang big money? And how much money & term?

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

But besides maybe Montreal, who do you see offering Letang big money? And how much money & term?

Is it even a guarantee Montreal would offer him big money? Maybe they try to recreate the magic of last summer but considering they just finished dead last, not entirely convinced they want to be throwing out big contracts to older players.

 

[SomeDude]

But besides maybe Montreal, who do you see offering Letang big money? And how much money & term?

GMs always lose their minds during free agency. It's like they are incapable of learning from others past mistakes.

 

[Darren McCord]

But besides maybe Montreal, who do you see offering Letang big money? And how much money & term?

Hextall and Co seem against term.

8x3 is a lot less money than
7x5

A lot of young teams with cap space could offer 7x5 if Letang truly is concerned about money over cups.

 

[jmelm]

Hextall and Co seem against term.

8x3 is a lot less money than
7x5

A lot of young teams with cap space could offer 7x5 if Letang truly is concerned about money over cups.

Yes, but $8M x 3 years makes are cap MUCH tighter than $7M over 4 or 5, which is counter productive to the goal of really competing in the next 2-3 years (if that's still the goal of the org).

I've also posited before that if we went 5 years and really front loaded the deal, that we might be able to get an AAV closer to 6.5--6.75.

I don't think we know a darn thing about what Hextall and Burke think, nor how much ownership has a say to overrule them. Those 2 guys hold their cards extremely close to their vests and their public proclamations are nothing more than a negotiating tactic. Exhibit A: "we're not going to add anyone signficant at the deadline", and then they acquire Rakell.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

But besides maybe Montreal, who do you see offering Letang big money? And how much money & term?

I think Montreal is going to offer him the moon and stars. Like, approaching absolute certainty that he'll be handed a blank check and told to fill in whatever details he wants.

If he leaves, it'll be for money/term. This team doesn't offer him a chance at another Cup, and I don't think he's gonna take peanuts to go to a contender with his retirement contract imo. I mean, maybe, but we'll see I guess.

 

[Darren McCord]

Yes, but $8M x 3 years makes are cap MUCH tighter than $7M over 4 or 5, which is counter productive to the goal of really competing in the next 2-3 years (if that's still the goal of the org).

I've also posited before that if we went 5 years and really front loaded the deal, that we might be able to get an AAV closer to 6.5--6.75.

I don't think we know a darn thing about what Hextall and Burke think, nor how much ownership has a say to overrule them. Those 2 guys hold their cards extremely close to their vests and their public proclamations are nothing more than a negotiating tactic. Exhibit A: "we're not going to add anyone signficant at the deadline", and then they acquire Rakell.

Sure I agree with this, but I think if those contracts could have been signed they would have been. Nothing from this group has inspired me so far since the offseason.

You should not be signing depth Carter, Friedman and Ruh before your stars. I do not think it sits well in a room to have half of your team in limbo with contracts.

 

[jmelm]

Is it even a guarantee Montreal would offer him big money? Maybe they try to recreate the magic of last summer but considering they just finished dead last, not entirely convinced they want to be throwing out big contracts to older players.

Well nothing is a guarantee, but if they move out Petry (which is virtually 100% certain), then they can add Letang. He would be a perfect Captain & mentor for their team, now that Weber is gone. It doesn't mean they will or won't, but they certainly could do it if they want, and if Letang wants to retire a Hab.

GMs always lose their minds during free agency. It's like they are incapable of learning from others past mistakes.

Yes, but it takes 2 to tango, and I don't see Letang wanting to go anywhere besides PIT or MTL unless neither team offers him a palatable contract. He's made a ton of money, so I don't see him chasing money to go to shit team. If he's going to go somewhere besides PIT or MTL, they would have to be a contender and most of the conteders are tight as hell against the cap.

I think Montreal is going to offer him the moon and stars. Like, approaching absolute certainty that he'll be handed a blank check and told to fill in whatever details he wants.

If he leaves, it'll be for money/term. This team doesn't offer him a chance at another Cup, and I don't think he's gonna take peanuts to go to a contender with his retirement contract imo. I mean, maybe, but we'll see I guess.

Letang has made >$72M per cap friendly. It doesn't mean he's going to play for peanuts, but it does mean he's not going to drag his family across the continent to a shitty team so he can make an extra ~ $3 million on a 4 or 5 year contract.

MTL can offer him a big deal, but they can't offer him meaningfully more than we can given their cap situation.

This is why I keep saying, whatever Letang decides will be driven primarily about his personal & family reasons rather than money.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Sure I agree with this, but I think if those contracts could have been signed they would have been. Nothing from this group has inspired me so far since the offseason.

You should not be signing depth Carter, Friedman and Ruh before your stars. I do not think it sits well in a room to have half of your team in limbo with contracts.

I mean, you sign who you can sign when you can sign them. I don't think guys like Carter, Friedman and Ruh make a difference re: Letang and Geno.

It's the playoffs that'll have an impact on how negotiations go, imo. Another 1st round exit and even to the most optimistic person, it'll be pretty hard to deny that this team's window is pretty firmly slammed shut.

I don't think the team's gonna tell them to f*** off, but I don't think the team's gonna offer them Ovechkin-esque contracts either. We all know, including the FO, that this team's no longer a legit contender. It's not about the bounces, or meeting a hot goalie, or whatever. Just not good enough and that's not gonna improve with time.

 

[Darren McCord]

I mean, you sign who you can sign when you can sign them. I don't think guys like Carter, Friedman and Ruh make a difference re: Letang and Geno.

It's the playoffs that'll have an impact on how negotiations go, imo. Another 1st round exit and even to the most optimistic person, it'll be pretty hard to deny that this team's window is pretty firmly slammed shut.

I don't think the team's gonna tell them to f*** off, but I don't think the team's gonna offer them Ovechkin-esque contracts either. We all know, including the FO, that this team's no longer a legit contender. It's not about the bounces, or meeting a hot goalie, or whatever. Just not good enough and that's not gonna improve with time.

Carter is 3.1 milion. That isnt cheap and it does impact your cap space.

Also sure playoffs can impact contract negotiations but you have 8 of your forwards not signed. That is too many in my mind. That has to be such a tense room.

 

[jmelm]

Sure I agree with this, but I think if those contracts could have been signed they would have been. Nothing from this group has inspired me so far since the offseason.

You should not be signing depth Carter, Friedman and Ruh before your stars. I do not think it sits well in a room to have half of your team in limbo with contracts.

Well Friedman and Ruh took league minimum deals, so that was an absolute no brainer for the Penguins. The Carter deal is a different story, and they absolutely should have waited on that (unless they specifically thought re-signing Carter would actually help them in the other negotiations).

But it doesn't mean anything at all that the contracts have not been signed yet. Both sides are incentivized to wait until the 11th hour so they can try to maximize their negotiating power.

In Letang's case, he's waiting to see if Pittsburgh will go an extra year or two on a deal. In the Pens' case, they're willing to see if either the AAV can go down if they give more term or if he'll ultimatley accept a 3 year deal. In the case of Malkin and Rust, the Pens are just waiting to see if both of those players' asks on term and $ will go down as July 13th approaches.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Well nothing is a guarantee, but if they move out Petry (which is virtually 100% certain), then they can add Letang. He would be a perfect Captain & mentor for their team, now that Weber is gone. It doesn't mean they will or won't, but they certainly could do it if they want, and if Letang wants to retire a Hab.



Yes, but it takes 2 to tango, and I don't see Letang wanting to go anywhere besides PIT or MTL unless neither team offers him a palatable contract. He's made a ton of money, so I don't see him chasing money to go to shit team. If he's going to go somewhere besides PIT or MTL, they would have to be a contender and most of the conteders are tight as hell against the cap.



Letang has made >$72M per cap friendly. It doesn't mean he's going to play for peanuts, but it does mean he's not going to drag his family across the continent to a shitty team so he can make an extra ~ $3 million on a 4 or 5 year contract.

MTL can offer him a big deal, but they can't offer him meaningfully more than we can given their cap situation.

This is why I keep saying, whatever Letang decides will be driven primarily about his personal & family reasons rather than money.

Across the continent? He's from Montreal. It's like 600 miles from Pittsburgh. And if we're all being honest with ourselves, this team being a perennial 1st round exit ain't that much different than a team not even making the playoffs. It doesn't matter. Neither situation offers him a chance at another Cup. One situation is familiar and comfortable (Pittsburgh), the other has the allure of way more money and playing in his hometown for the last few years of his career (Montreal).

 

[Darren McCord]

Well Friedman and Ruh took league minimum deals, so that was an absolute no brainer for the Penguins. The Carter deal is a different story, and they absolutely should have waited on that (unless they specifically thought re-signing Carter would actually help them in the other negotiations).

But it doesn't mean anything at all that the contracts have not been signed yet. Both sides are incentivized to wait until the 11th hour so they can try to maximize their negotiating power.

In Letang's case, he's waiting to see if Pittsburgh will go an extra year or two on a deal. In the Pens' case, they're willing to see if either the AAV can go down if they give more term or if he'll ultimatley accept a 3 year deal. In the case of Malkin and Rust, the Pens are just waiting to see if both of those players' asks on term and $ will go down as July 13th approaches.

I guess it depends on what Malkin really wants. But if he is willing to take around the rumored 7, its not going down and really shouldnt. So I dont know what they are expecting.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Carter is 3.1 milion. That isnt cheap and it does impact your cap space.

Also sure playoffs can impact contract negotiations but you have 8 of your forwards not signed. That is too many in my mind. That has to be such a tense room.

$3.1 million is pretty cheap, though. I wouldn't have signed him, but he's not making like Zucker money or anything. It's not something that's gonna significantly impact your cap structure.

 

[jmelm]

Carter is 3.1 milion. That isnt cheap and it does impact your cap space.

Also sure playoffs can impact contract negotiations but you have 8 of your forwards not signed. That is too many in my mind. That has to be such a tense room.

Yes, I would say that Carter is overpaid by about $750k--$1M. Basically the cost of a 4th line/13th forward. It's not optimal, but it's not the end of the world, specifically because we can compensate for that by having guys on their ELCs like Zohorna, DOC, POJ and maybe a 4th guy in Puustinen/Bjorkvist as well.

I agree about the tense room. It's not that I expect the players to necessarily want to negotiate mid season, and I don't want to make excuses for their shitty play, but the vast uncertainty around all those guys could just as easily motivate them to play their best or cause a big underlying distraction that is adversely affecting their play.

 

[jmelm]

Across the continent? He's from Montreal. It's like 600 miles from Pittsburgh. And if we're all being honest with ourselves, this team being a perennial 1st round exit ain't that much different than a team not even making the playoffs. It doesn't matter. Neither situation offers him a chance at another Cup. One situation is familiar and comfortable (Pittsburgh), the other has the allure of way more money and playing in his hometown for the last few years of his career (Montreal).

I said move across the continent to ANOTHER team IF neither PIT or MTL offers him an acceptable contract.

Also, with the tax rates in Montreal, I don't think his earnings would necessarily be greater there. They may have to offer him an extra $1M per season to equate to what he would earn in PIT.

 

[Darren McCord]

Yes, I would say that Carter is overpaid by about $750k--$1M. Basically the cost of a 4th line/13th forward. It's not optimal, but it's not the end of the world, specifically because we can compensate for that by having guys on their ELCs like Zohorna, DOC, POJ and maybe a 4th guy in Puustinen/Bjorkvist as well.

I agree about the tense room. It's not that I expect the players to necessarily want to negotiate mid season, and I don't want to make excuses for their shitty play, but the vast uncertainty around all those guys could just as easily motivate them to play their best or cause a big underlying distraction that is adversely affecting their play.

I don't think the Carter signing is horrible in itself, but it just seems a bit weird to sign him before Geno. Make Carter lower his cap not the 3rd most important franchise player.

I think they created a bad environment especially if its true Geno and Letang felt undervalued. Like who is inspiring this team right now. It aint the coach. It aint crosby, he is to quite. If Geno and Letang are upset its probably not them. Is it big Jeff?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I said move across the continent to ANOTHER team IF neither PIT or MTL offers him an acceptable contract.

Also, with the tax rates in Montreal, I don't think his earnings would necessarily be greater there. They may have to offer him an extra $1M per season to equate to what he would earn in PIT.

My mistake. You didn't clarify that, but whatever.

Either way, I fully expect Montreal to offer him something like $8.5-9 million AAV for 5 years or so. I think Pittsburgh will probably put something like $8 million AAV for 3 years. That's a pretty big gap.

And honestly, based on his age, style, recent play, and current state of the team--I'd be fine letting him walk. Doesn't change this team's chances at chasing the Cup in reality.

 

[jmelm]

My mistake. You didn't clarify that, but whatever.

Either way, I fully expect Montreal to offer him something like $8.5-9 million AAV for 5 years or so. I think Pittsburgh will probably put something like $8 million AAV for 3 years. That's a pretty big gap.

And honestly, based on his age, style, recent play, and current state of the team--I'd be fine letting him walk. Doesn't change this team's chances at chasing the Cup in reality.

Have you looked at how tight MTL is to the cap? I don't know how you think they can offer him 8.5-9M.

If they move Petry, that will clear up 6.25, but they also need to re-sign a few key guys this year (Romanov, R. Pitlick) and next year (Caufield).

So I don't think they can really afford to give him more than about $7M per year, same as us. Which, again, is why I keep saying that I believe it will be family reasons that dictate PIT vs MTL vs. elsewhere, as much or more as a financial consideration.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Have you looked at how tight MTL is to the cap? I don't know how you think they can offer him 8.5-9M.

If they move Petry, that will clear up 6.25, but they also need to re-sign a few key guys this year (Romanov, R. Pitlick) and next year (Caufield).

So I don't think they can really afford to give him more than about $7M per year, same as us. Which, again, is why I keep saying that I believe it will be family reasons that dictate PIT vs MTL vs. elsewhere, as much or more as a financial consideration.

I dunno man, we'll see I guess. I think Montreal would do whatever it took to fit Letang in if he became available. They could use his services, and they do love a good hometown boy. All the things line up.

(Fwiw, this is just kicking around ideas in boredom. I've been saying since last summer that I figure both Geno and Letang are re-signed for like $15 million AAV total for three years to line up with Sid's retirement.)

 

[jmelm]

I dunno man, we'll see I guess. I think Montreal would do whatever it took to fit Letang in if he became available. They could use his services, and they do love a good hometown boy. All the things line up.

(Fwiw, this is just kicking around ideas in boredom. I've been saying since last summer that I figure both Geno and Letang are re-signed for like $15 million AAV total for three years to line up with Sid's retirement.)

Usually when a team does “whatever it takes” to get a player, it’s because they think they’re the missing piece. But with MTL, they’re rebuilding and Letang isn’t the missing piece to anything. He would be a great addition, but more in a leadership & mentor capacity rather than a guy that’s going to put them over the top…..since the likelihood of them making the playoffs anytime soon is bleak as f**k.

So there’s value in adding him, but just not “at any cost”.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Letang would absolutely get a huge contract as a UFA, right handed puck movers are always in massive demand. There are definitely teams who would meet his term requirements that Hextall may not be willing to meet.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Usually when a team does “whatever it takes” to get a player, it’s because they think they’re the missing piece. But with MTL, they’re rebuilding and Letang isn’t the missing piece to anything. He would be a great addition, but more in a leadership & mentor capacity rather than a guy that’s going to put them over the top…..since the likelihood of them making the playoffs anytime soon is bleak as f**k.

So there’s value in adding him, but just not “at any cost”.

Usually. But Montreal doesn't always go for "usually." They've got a history of obsession with French Canadians filling out their team, to the point where guys giving interviews in English gets them unnecessary shit from the media/fanbase.

We'll see. I just want something exciting to happen this summer, even if it means big names being traded or walking.

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

Well he knows one of them is gone.