Salary Cap: Penguins future roster-building (2017-18 and beyond) | Contract/FA charts in Post #1

[Hockeyholic]

I'd still take a full-time Shatty at 6 mil over a half-time Letang at 7.25 mil.

That's the thing. Availability is more important then ability. You can be guaranteed Letang will miss at least 20 games next season.

 

[Nakawick]

We already have a Shattenkirk on our team that we need to re-up.

 

[Ogrezilla]

That's the thing. Availability is more important then ability. You can be guaranteed Letang will miss at least 20 games next season.

I'd rather take the risk of Letang playing the games that count than having Shattenkirk at 6M every game of the year. It's the difference between a top 10 D in the league and a powerplay specialist 2nd pairing guy.

We already have a Shattenkirk on our team that we need to re-up.

Also this.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Shattenkirk is a PP point farmer and not much more. Why is this even an idea?

Go for Alzner.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Shattenkirk is a PP point farmer and not much more. Why is this even an idea?

Go for Alzner.

He's not all that good either imo. For the right price, sure I guess, but don't pay much of anything for him imo.

 

[66-30-33]

When is Alzner playing?

 

[harmonica]

Any talk of trading Sheary at this point is completely absurd. If you are currently thinking this way or contemplating it, please go back in your history to see what you were saying about him mid season.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Certainly prefer Shattenkirk over Alzner if the money is similar.
And so would JR and Sully imo.

JR likely does take a run at any good D available and especially a RD.
ie. An ANA one. Trouba or Myers if WPG is selling one. Shatty.
Doesn't mean he gets one but he probably goes these routes before ever thinking of Alzner.
Even re-up'ing Daley, really.

 

[jmelm]

Oshie/Hornqvist

The single best asset management move we could make is protect 4D+4F, trade Hornqvist and sign T.J. Oshie as a UFA.


1 week ago I would have said there is ZERO chance Oshie doesn't stay with the Caps, but if they get blown out by the Pens this series that team will be such a disaster, I think he will test the UFA market and could pull a Hossa -- and sign with the team you couldn't beat.


I love Horny but with the expansion draft looming, this is something we would have to consider seriously. There is no one else besides Oshie this year -- at forward or defense -- who is an elite/top-tier UFA talent.

 

[larueskee]

I completely disagree. And calling Letang's contract awful while wanting to sign Shattenkirk to what will assuredly be an awful contract is silly. Letang is a MUCH better player than Shattenkirk. We don't need him enough on the PP to be worth anything close to what he'll get payed.

Hey I think Letang is great at what he does and he is pretty much a powerplay guy too. The other very big thing is did you see the neck collar Letang was wearing? Necks are pretty serious injuries and they usually require a lot of maintenance and down time. He is already down a lot and me thinks he might not be reliable with this nech but he most certainly will not retire. So he has to be paid forever like Pronger was.

 

[BobCole]

Hey I think Letang is great at what he does and he is pretty much a powerplay guy too. The other very big thing is did you see the neck collar Letang was wearing? Necks are pretty serious injuries and they usually require a lot of maintenance and down time. He is already down a lot and me thinks he might not be reliable with this nech but he most certainly will not retire. So he has to be paid forever like Pronger was.

He's one of the best 5 on 5 players in the league, and despite racking up points on the PP, his PPQB abilities are highly suspect.

 

[PensPlz]

The single best asset management move we could make is protect 4D+4F, trade Hornqvist and sign T.J. Oshie as a UFA.


1 week ago I would have said there is ZERO chance Oshie doesn't stay with the Caps, but if they get blown out by the Pens this series that team will be such a disaster, I think he will test the UFA market and could pull a Hossa -- and sign with the team you couldn't beat.


I love Horny but with the expansion draft looming, this is something we would have to consider seriously. There is no one else besides Oshie this year -- at forward or defense -- who is an elite/top-tier UFA talent.

If Tampa is going to move Drouin because they can't protect him, then I think he falls into that category. While I wold love Oshie, I don't think we can afford him. I think he'll get way north of 6 from a team.


If we win a cup without a Letang *knock on wood*, I feel like that opens a lot of doors for us.

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

He's one of the best 5 on 5 players in the league, and despite racking up points on the PP, his PPQB abilities are highly suspect.

Calling Letang a PP specialist is insane considering it's prob his weakest part of the 3 game scenarios. If anything he is an ES specialist (not that that is really a thing) but ES is clearly where he stands out relative to the rest of the NHL and is arguably the best in the league much moreso than PP or PK.

 

[billybudd]

The single best asset management move we could make is protect 4D+4F, trade Hornqvist and sign T.J. Oshie as a UFA.


1 week ago I would have said there is ZERO chance Oshie doesn't stay with the Caps, but if they get blown out by the Pens this series that team will be such a disaster, I think he will test the UFA market and could pull a Hossa -- and sign with the team you couldn't beat.


I love Horny but with the expansion draft looming, this is something we would have to consider seriously. There is no one else besides Oshie this year -- at forward or defense -- who is an elite/top-tier UFA talent.

Oshie has a tendency to look phenomenal when he's on, but it's worth pointing out that he's slow. Old Kovalev, David Perron slow. That's...not a great look for us. Hornqvist can get away with it because he's so high energy and we use him as a scalpel, but Oshie's more chill and needs to carry the puck a bit to be effective. And he slows things down. Which slows the "other guys" on his line down. Which is bad because of the nature of the "other guys" we have.

The other thing with him is, for a smaller, finesse guy, he's involved in kind of a lot of contact. Even though he gets the best of it, usually (Oshie's balance and center of gravity are really something else), that doesn't normally map to a long shelf life for puck-handling types as they cross over into their 30s. I'm thinking Mike Richards here. While drugs probably had a lot to do with how he got so bad so fast, I doubt they were the only reason.

Personally, I think if there's nobody in UFA to be signed other than Oshie (though remember that we need a 3C and possibly a 4C), the Pens would be wise to just retain their own guys and bank what's left. That way if something comes up later in the year, we don't need to rearrange the salary structure to be a player.

No to Shattenkirk. No to Alzner. No to Oshie.

 

[WayneSid9987]

If i'm JR i'm certainly interested in what Tampa's gonna do with their F's.
Yzerman has cleared some cash but they may look to move on from a Killorn or Palat.
2 guys who'd look great here imo.
ETA: Or even Tyler Johnson.

ETA: Going over their finances, i see:
10F's with Johnson, Palat, Drouin needing signed.
4D with Sustr, Witkowski or whatever needing signed.
1G with a backup neeed.

Takes them to 54.492001M. Let's say Cap is 74.
Thats 19.507999M to spend on needs.
Let's say TJ = 5.5. Palat = 4.2 Drouin = 6. Thats 15.7M there.
That leaves 3.807999M to spend on 2/3 D and a backup.

I guess they can make it would but it's tight now.

 

[Riptide]

Trade MAF for a cheap serviceable back up and a pick (a late second or a third works for me) before the expansion draft.

Plan on losing Horny or Hags in the expansion draft. Hurts to lose either or but they're both replaceable within the system.

Assuming we move MAF without taking back salary, we'll have around 19/20m to spend. But we'll have to sign Dumoulin, Sheary, Schultz and a replacement #3C. Then there's still a backup, 2 depth forwards and 2 more D (6/7). Those depth guys alone - even dirt cheap ones will still cost at least 3m. The RFAs will likely cost around 12m (perhaps even more). Which means you're at around 15m or so, and still haven't signed a #3C.

Basically the only way we have money to spend is if we lose Hagelin or Hornqvist or Maatta. Otherwise we're not right at the cap, but we'll be extremely close to it. And even then if we do lose one of those guys, we would only have 4m maybe 5m to go shopping. There's not very many FAs that we would want that will sign for that. Those that will are not #3D's.

 

[Riptide]

Personally, I think if there's nobody in UFA to be signed other than Oshie (though remember that we need a 3C and possibly a 4C), the Pens would be wise to just retain their own guys and bank what's left. That way if something comes up later in the year, we don't need to rearrange the salary structure to be a player.

No to Shattenkirk. No to Alzner. No to Oshie.

Oshie is an interesting case... but I agree that he would probably get way too much term and AAV to really make much sense for us. Shattenkirk just won't work out even if we wanted to go there due to the timelines of FA/Entry Draft/Letang's injury - and that's assuming we would even be willing to go there.

Alzner is an interesting case, but short of trading Maatta, I'm not sure he makes much sense. I can just see someone offering him way too much money/term. I think a value signing like Hainsey or even Daley/Smith if he'd sign cheap enough probably makes a lot more sense then swinging for the hills on a top FA.

Where it gets interesting is if they go 4/4, and decide to move Hornqvist (determining that Rust due to his age/cap/years of team control makes more sense) for whatever. Then you need to replace Hornqvist. Not a ton out there, but there's a few different guys who might make some sense if the contracts are okay and you're looking for a flexible top 9 winger who can move up/down the lineup. Or go big after a package deal for Marleau and Thornton and see if they'd sign cheap 1 year contracts for a cup run.

 

[High Flying Birds]

Shattenkirk is a PP point farmer and not much more. Why is this even an idea?

Go for Alzner.

Caps fans soured on Alzner quite a bit this season for whatever reason. He'd be a good replacement if we were to lose Maatta or Dumoulin to expansion I suppose. But yeah Shattenkirk is rubbish. He's been getting abused, first by the young Leafs and now by us. For the money he'll get, let's stay far away.

 

[billybudd]

Oshie is an interesting case... but I agree that he would probably get way too much term and AAV to really make much sense for us. Shattenkirk just won't work out even if we wanted to go there due to the timelines of FA/Entry Draft/Letang's injury - and that's assuming we would even be willing to go there.

Alzner is an interesting case, but short of trading Maatta, I'm not sure he makes much sense. I can just see someone offering him way too much money/term. I think a value signing like Hainsey or even Daley/Smith if he'd sign cheap enough probably makes a lot more sense then swinging for the hills on a top FA.

Where it gets interesting is if they go 4/4, and decide to move Hornqvist (determining that Rust due to his age/cap/years of team control makes more sense) for whatever. Then you need to replace Hornqvist. Not a ton out there, but there's a few different guys who might make some sense if the contracts are okay and you're looking for a flexible top 9 winger who can move up/down the lineup. Or go big after a package deal for Marleau and Thornton and see if they'd sign cheap 1 year contracts for a cup run.

Losing Cullen and Bones, I'm not completely opposed to that. I mean, it would have to be a massive haircut, even for one of them. Sort of Selanne/Kariya on Colorado type haircut, where the guy's making 1/3 of what the market will bear.

Thornton's slow, obviously, but guy with his vision (and better defensive play than he gets credit for) on a checking line in a position we've got a hole can't be dismissed out of hand because the style is a weird fit on paper. Just thinking about this, I wonder if he wouldn't click with Rust. Rust's exactly the type of guy JT's gotten a lot out of in his career, and he'd be seeing weak, weak D pairs for the first time in 20 years.

 

[deathtouchtrample]

A lot of our cap situation (how much money we have) will depend on if LV takes MAF. If that happens we could have around 22 mil. If LV doesn't take MAF, we may have to take something back from a potential trading partner and will have less to play with. If MAF doesn't get taken, them it becomes who might we lose and possibly have to replace.

The next biggest thing is if we re-up Bones. If someone offers Bones a deal for 15-25 million over 3-5 years, that may be tough for us to match. There is not much out there for UFA's and could be expensive. We may have to go the trade route.

I think we can get Schultz, Dumo and Sheary signed for 10-12 mil depending on term.

We have to decide who to protect out of Dumo or Maatta and if we protect all 4, we need to decide who gets exposed at forward.

We also have Sunny and Poo to deal with.

For what it is worth, if MAF goes we need a capable backup who could start for long stretches and potentially step in during the playoffs. MM has not shown durability. We can't roll with some no name and rely on 65 starts from MM. JR won't do that.

Lots of moving parts that are just 7 weeks or so away from happening. If we win the cup, we will barely have time to enjoy it before the dominos start to fall.

I mean, we'll have plenty of time to enjoy it. JR Botterli and Guerin not so much.

 

[DoktorZaius]

Losing Cullen and Bones, I'm not completely opposed to that. I mean, it would have to be a massive haircut, even for one of them. Sort of Selanne/Kariya on Colorado type haircut, where the guy's making 1/3 of what the market will bear.

Thornton's slow, obviously, but guy with his vision (and better defensive play than he gets credit for) on a checking line in a position we've got a hole can't be dismissed out of hand because the style is a weird fit on paper. Just thinking about this, I wonder if he wouldn't click with Rust. Rust's exactly the type of guy JT's gotten a lot out of in his career, and he'd be seeing weak, weak D pairs for the first time in 20 years.

I was just thinking the other day that Marleau-Thornton-Rust could be an interesting line.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Hey I think Letang is great at what he does and he is pretty much a powerplay guy too. The other very big thing is did you see the neck collar Letang was wearing? Necks are pretty serious injuries and they usually require a lot of maintenance and down time. He is already down a lot and me thinks he might not be reliable with this nech but he most certainly will not retire. So he has to be paid forever like Pronger was.

yeah, just like Crosby.

And no, Letang is not a powerplay guy. If anything, that's his biggest weakness as a player. He's worlds better than Shattenkirk at 5v5. Not even comparable.

 

[redsono93]

No. The only move I might consider is a deal around Sheary and Drouin.

If we did put Sheary in package for Drouin what else would you need to add? Drouin on our team would not be fair lol

 

[chethejet]

GMJR is a big chemistry in the room guy. Sully as well. I don't think any big shakes ups are coming with the obvious issues of MAF, ED and resigning Bonino at a good workable price. Duno or Olli will be exposed as Shultz is to valuable to lose. I don't think Olli's skating is ever going to be better so yes for that cap hit for at best a 4 to 6 D man, I consider losing him in a trade or ED He is replacable.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't see a need for Alzner if the Penguins manage to retain all of Cole, Maatta and Dumoulin after the year, plus I think Alzner is actually pretty bad. If we're talking UFA defensemen, I'd stay away from any of the Washington guys. There's a reason that they hoard Penguins castoff defensemen.