Salary Cap: Penguins future roster-building (2017-18 and beyond) | Contract/FA charts in Post #1

[Ogrezilla]

You are missing my point. We can afford Duchene, both asset wise and cap wise. His versatility to be stacked into the top 6 on wing, field depth as a 3C or move up to fill in for injured Geno or Sid. There are more teams that are going to be good in the East very soon. Toronto, Buffalo, Carolina, Columbus, Florida all have good young teams. Tampa, Rags, Sens, Habs are all solid.

I'm not sure about that. We won't be the only team bidding, and I think some teams that need a top 6 center could outbid us pretty easily. We've got Maatta, but then what are we adding? I just don't see how we get it done without Sprong or Guentzel.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I still don't know if I'm sold on Bonino. Paying what he's gonna ask, for the amount of years he's going to ask, solely banking on him turning it on come playoff time is a big gamble imo. He was dog-**** putrid for 60-65 games this season before he started to heat up. Do we pay $4M/yr for like 3 or 4 years and gamble that he'll be able to shape up every season come playoff time? /shrug

I don't really know who else we could get though. I haven't really taken the time to comb through upcoming UFAs who are likely 3C guys, or really perused teams' rosters for guys we might be able to land in a trade.

 

[Nakawick]

I'm not sure about that. We won't be the only team bidding, and I think some teams that need a top 6 center could outbid us pretty easily. We've got Maatta, but then what are we adding? I just don't see how we get it done without Sprong or Guentzel.

Duchene going to the Canes or Habs or Islanders isn't what we want. I really believe that the balance of power will be with the East for the next half decade or more. The west teams outside of the Hawks and Alberta teams and maybe Winnepeg are in decline or treading water at best. Getting out of the East is going to be tough as hell. The last few draft classes have been strong and those kids are only going to get better.
I don't know what the Aves will want for certain or what other teams will pay, but I am not afraid of losing firsts.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Yeah, if we could get Duchene for a base of Jarry, Maatta, and a 1st (with some sweetener if necessary), we really ought to go for it. He'd give us unparalleled depth down the middle - with the winger depth to help him thrive - and he'd be great insurance for Geno's yearly IR vacation.

Speed to burn, and great in the dot too.

 

[ColePens]

Yeah, if we could get Duchene for a base of Jarry, Maatta, and a 1st (with some sweetener if necessary), we really ought to go for it. He'd give us unparalleled depth down the middle - with the winger depth to help him thrive - and he'd be great insurance for Geno's yearly IR vacation.

Speed to burn, and great in the dot too.

But rumors were that Sakic wanted something like Jake/Sprong, too. That **** just aint' happening.

 

[66-30-33]

But rumors were that Sakic wanted something like Jake/Sprong, too. That **** just aint' happening.

Guentzel+Sprong as a START was the asking price. Also looking for D help and a goalie...so Maatta+Jarry?

 

[Nakawick]

But rumors were that Sakic wanted something like Jake/Sprong, too. That **** just aint' happening.

Those were the rumours, not sure how accurate they were. The other side of the coin is that Duchene is still an Ave and no team was willing to meet "Sakics price". Duchenes value did not increase since the deadline. I find it hard to believe that he wants to stay in Denver considering how this season has gone and the trade rumours.

 

[ColePens]

Yeah... i'd rather just keep our youngsters at a crazy low price during the time where we need that in our cap situation

 

[Ogrezilla]

Duchene going to the Canes or Habs or Islanders isn't what we want. I really believe that the balance of power will be with the East for the next half decade or more. The west teams outside of the Hawks and Alberta teams and maybe Winnepeg are in decline or treading water at best. Getting out of the East is going to be tough as hell. The last few draft classes have been strong and those kids are only going to get better.
I don't know what the Aves will want for certain or what other teams will pay, but I am not afraid of losing firsts.

what are you giving up to get him?

Yeah, if we could get Duchene for a base of Jarry, Maatta, and a 1st (with some sweetener if necessary), we really ought to go for it. He'd give us unparalleled depth down the middle - with the winger depth to help him thrive - and he'd be great insurance for Geno's yearly IR vacation.

Speed to burn, and great in the dot too.

Agreed, but I don't see how we can get him for that. Someone can do better. If we can get him without sending Guentzel or Sprong I would be absolutely shocked. But yeah, if it's an option then do it.

Those were the rumours, not sure how accurate they were. The other side of the coin is that Duchene is still an Ave and no team was willing to meet "Sakics price". Duchenes value did not increase since the deadline. I find it hard to believe that he wants to stay in Denver considering how this season has gone and the trade rumours.

More teams will be willing to make bigger moves in the off-season than at the trade deadline though.

 

[Nakawick]

Yeah... i'd rather just keep our youngsters at a crazy low price during the time where we need that in our cap situation

I would as well. But I still think it can be done without giving them up. At least until I see he was traded somewhere else.

Maatta
Jarry
Hagelin
2017 1st
2018 1st

For
Duchene
Weircioch
2017 3rd

I would make that offer.

 

[Riptide]

I still think you're too low on Sheary to be honest. I struggle to see him taking less than $4 million per year. Even if you just look at his point totals and ignore how many games he has missed, 50 point wingers cost above $4 million even as RFAs.

Over what term? Without that there for context, we can't really debate this. But he's not going to get a 1x4m contract. This year aside, he doesn't have the history of production to back that up. Just go look at how Hoffman's contract situation played out last summer.

A. Schultz is a RFA, he doesn't have enough leverage to get a huge contract. I'd be shocked for him to get above $4.5 million on a medium term deal. I think 4 years and $18 million is what they'll ultimately settle on. Schultz can't just go to the highest bidder, the Penguins still have his rights. It seems like people either don't know this or are ignoring it.

Wait if an RFA winger who put up 50 points is going to cost above 4m, why is it that a right shooting offensive D who can skate, play 22+ minutes a game and will put up 50+ points will sign for well below the market rate? You talk about how Sheary even as an RFA is going to cost money... then say that because Schultz is an RFA he'll sign for less and doesn't have any leverage...

This just seems very backwards.

 

[66-30-33]

I would as well. But I still think it can be done without giving them up. At least until I see he was traded somewhere else.

Maatta
Jarry
Hagelin
2017 1st
2018 1st

For
Duchene
Weircioch
2017 3rd

I would make that offer.

Avs pass pretty easily. We likely wont get Duchene unless we add a piece we don't want to.

 

[Riptide]

You are missing my point. We can afford Duchene, both asset wise and cap wise. His versatility to be stacked into the top 6 on wing, field depth as a 3C or move up to fill in for injured Geno or Sid. There are more teams that are going to be good in the East very soon. Toronto, Buffalo, Carolina, Columbus, Florida all have good young teams. Tampa, Rags, Sens, Habs are all solid.

We probably can. But that doesn't mean we should. Do we need to improve our C depth (or keep Bonino)? Absolutely. Would I love Duchene? Yes. I would have traded Sprong for him 2 months ago. I would be pretty hesitant to do so now, and from how Rutherford speaks of him, he won't. And if we're not including Sprong (or Guentzel), then we're not going to get Duchene.

But there are other young skilled centers that perhaps we can look at that make sense. Skilled guys that give us more of that offensive 3rd line that we're looking for that we can probably acquire with just Maatta (if Rutherford was so inclined). Or worse case go get Bozak. He's your classic 2/3 tweener C that is good defensively.

Would having a C like Duchene as our #3C be amazing? Absolutely. But that's very much a luxury, not a need. Anything from Bonino caliber is a need. Looking for that highly skilled #2C (Duchene) is a luxury that from all reports will cost a fortune to acquire (they wanted Sprong and Guentzel).

 

[Riptide]

I still don't know if I'm sold on Bonino. Paying what he's gonna ask, for the amount of years he's going to ask, solely banking on him turning it on come playoff time is a big gamble imo. He was dog-**** putrid for 60-65 games this season before he started to heat up. Do we pay $4M/yr for like 3 or 4 years and gamble that he'll be able to shape up every season come playoff time? /shrug

I don't really know who else we could get though. I haven't really taken the time to comb through upcoming UFAs who are likely 3C guys, or really perused teams' rosters for guys we might be able to land in a trade.

I agree. but we absolutely need a body there for next season. Someone, anyone. Putting Sundqvist there is a ****ty option that we must not do (at least when healthy).

Know who would have been perfect (if slightly overpaid) and stupidly cheap to acquire? Flippula. Offense might not be there, but he cost PHI next to nothing, and he's still a very good defensive C. Someone like him would have at least gotten us through next year when we can again look at the market (there's some more/better Cs available then).

Otherwise I'd be looking at Bozak or see what the options are for Sobotka. After that... maybe Pleks (who's really overpaid at 6m) or Bonino are probably the only other options. It's a really poor market in which to be looking for that quasi #2/3C. Pleks might be the best option - especially if you can get MTL to retain a little on him.

 

[Nakawick]

Avs pass pretty easily. We likely wont get Duchene unless we add a piece we don't want to.

It depends on what other teams are offering really. Another team has to accept that in two years Duchene is a UFA. That might put a damper on bids from budget teams or teams who feel they are still a couple years away from really being a contender. Another factor is what goes on behind closed doors between Sakic and Duchene or his agent. It could very well be time to go for Duchene.
Also, do we have a reliable source that said Sprong and Guentzel?

 

[Ogrezilla]

if his primary position will be 3C, I don't want to trade for Duchene.

 

[Ogrezilla]

It depends on what other teams are offering really. Another team has to accept that in two years Duchene is a UFA. That might put a damper on bids from budget teams or teams who feel they are still a couple years away from really being a contender. Another factor is what goes on behind closed doors between Sakic and Duchene or his agent. It could very well be time to go for Duchene.
Also, do we have a reliable source that said Sprong and Guentzel?

Does it? The Avs can just keep Duchene, can't they?

 

[JTG]

It would be in our best interest to unload defensemen before the expansion draft for a forward so we can protect the max number of players.

I'd try to swing a Duchene deal. In my opinion, if we are including Maatta, that makes Sprong or Guentzel a no-go.

I wonder if Toronto will look to dump this offseason. JVR and Bozak.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I agree. but we absolutely need a body there for next season. Someone, anyone. Putting Sundqvist there is a ****ty option that we must not do (at least when healthy).

Know who would have been perfect (if slightly overpaid) and stupidly cheap to acquire? Flippula. Offense might not be there, but he cost PHI next to nothing, and he's still a very good defensive C. Someone like him would have at least gotten us through next year when we can again look at the market (there's some more/better Cs available then).

Otherwise I'd be looking at Bozak or see what the options are for Sobotka. After that... maybe Pleks (who's really overpaid at 6m) or Bonino are probably the only other options. It's a really poor market in which to be looking for that quasi #2/3C. Pleks might be the best option - especially if you can get MTL to retain a little on him.

I am so glad we didn't get Filppula. I don't like him for our team even a little bit.

 

[Son Goku]

I would as well. But I still think it can be done without giving them up. At least until I see he was traded somewhere else.

Maatta
Jarry
Hagelin
2017 1st
2018 1st

For
Duchene
Weircioch
2017 3rd

I would make that offer.

Id rather not trade two straight first round picks

 

[Nakawick]

Does it? The Avs can just keep Duchene, can't they?

Yes, they could. I suspect there is going to be a kiss and make up session if that were to happen though. Also, the UFA in 2 years.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Yes, they could. I suspect there is going to be a kiss and make up session if that were to happen though. Also, the UFA in 2 years.

I was just making sure I didn't miss any actual big blowup or something where he has come out and said he wants out.

 

[Nakawick]

I was just making sure I didn't miss any actual big blowup or something where he has come out and said he wants out.

Well, Sakic through his name out and Duchene is on record saying he would be open to a trade. Speculating here, but it sure looks as though Duchene stopped giving a **** a few months ago.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Well, Sakic through his name out and Duchene is on record saying he would be open to a trade. Speculating here, but it sure looks as though Duchene stopped giving a **** a few months ago.

I mean, I expect him to get traded. I just don't think they'll take a low ball offer just to do it. And unless they plan to trade MacKinnon too, I would think they value a guy like Sprong far far more than a 1st round pick unless it's an early pick. I don't think we have the high end assets to get it without Sprong or Guentzel.

 

[Nakawick]

I mean, I expect him to get traded. I just don't think they'll take a low ball offer just to do it. And unless they plan to trade MacKinnon too, I would think they value a guy like Sprong far far more than a 1st round pick unless it's an early pick. I don't think we have the high end assets to get it without Sprong or Guentzel.

I guess it depends on what a low ball offer is. Is Sprong worth two late firsts? From the Aves perspective?