Salary Cap: Penguins future roster-building (2017-18 and beyond) | Contract/FA charts in Post #1

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'm not comfortable, and I don't think anyone else should be either, putting out Cole or Ruhwedel against the opposition's best come playoff time. They're serviceable guys right now, but neither should see minutes/responsibility above the bottom pairing. Not on a Cup chasing team anyway.

With Maatta's stagnation, and Dumo going through what's hopefully only a sophomore slump, I think our biggest need is a guy like Alzner. Even if one of those guys steps up and returns to form, we still need a guy like Alzner for the top-4.

I respectfully disagree. I'm more than content with what we have on the blueline if we're remotely healthy. Spending 5-6 mil on a player like Alzner would be a misallocation of cap space that would take away from our present identity, which has been more successful than any we've had during the Sid/Geno era.

It's Paul Martin redux, IMO. I like what Martin did while he was here, but that type of player is not worth that money to this team.

 

[Night Shift]

If Alzner isn't a Scuderi and he can play anywhere in the line up on a short term deal. I do not see the risk.

 

[Ogrezilla]

If Alzner isn't a Scuderi and he can play anywhere in the line up on a short term deal. I do not see the risk.

The risk is that I don't think he takes a short term deal. Or a cheap one.

 

[Shady Machine]

Alzner will not be cheap or short term.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I respectfully disagree. I'm more than content with what we have on the blueline if we're remotely healthy. Spending 5-6 mil on a player like Alzner would be a misallocation of cap space that would take away from our present identity, which has been more successful than any we've had during the Sid/Geno era.

It's Paul Martin redux, IMO. I like what Martin did while he was here, but that type of player is not worth that money to this team.

I don't know why Paul Martin keeps being mentioned. He was better with the puck than any of these guys being talked about, and better defensively. He could man the point on the 2nd PP and at least knew what to do as opposed to when someone like Dumo has to run it and is pretty much a warm body. Martin was better than all these players. A Paul Martin redux (which this isn't IMO) would actually be nice because Paul Martin was a very good player here.

 

[Peat]

I can't see Vegas taking 7 goalies. The trade market for goalies isn't particularly strong. That said, there are probably a higher volume of good goalies available vs skaters.

I guess it gets better if you've got a monopoly on them, but they could probably do the same thing with 2nd pairing defencemen and do it better.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Having a monopoly on available goaltenders would definitely force some deals to happen...but if they do that they're also undoubtedly going to get 'stuck' with at least one too many goalies and probably lose at least one on waivers for free (that or give someone the Berube treatment...which could never possibly backfire).

I wouldn't be surprised if they end up taking more than 3 goalies, but 7 seems like a stretch.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I don't know why Paul Martin keeps being mentioned. He was better with the puck than any of these guys being talked about, and better defensively. He could man the point on the 2nd PP and at least knew what to do as opposed to when someone like Dumo has to run it and is pretty much a warm body. Martin was better than all these players. A Paul Martin redux (which this isn't IMO) would actually be nice because Paul Martin was a very good player here.

Martin was good here, but that was a different team with different priorities. His best offensive full seasons here, he never reached 30 points. I wouldn't want to spend 5-6 mil on that Paul Martin on this team either.

We have Letang. We have Schultz. We have capable defensive complements. The bulk of our remaining cap should be spent on keeping our speedy forwards, not blowing our wad on defensive defensemen. Again.

 

[Ogrezilla]

My thoughts on adding a D will depend on what we pay Dumo and Schultz. If we're paying 4 guys top 4 D money, we shouldn't sign a 5th.

 

[mpp9]

We need D prospects more than we need to spend big money on free agent D.

Re-sign one of Hainsey, Daley and Streit. Give DP another shot next season.

 

[SEALBound]

Spending big money on Alzner would be a huge mistake. He's a good defensive d-man, but the guy's career-high is 21 points. We've shown we can take guys like Cole and Ruhwedel and turn them into solid defensive complements to our dynamic puck movers, which is all we need for our system.

Cole, yes. Ruhwedel, no.

Schultz will replace Daley. Maatta is the concern for me. He's not been a solid top 4 dman that we need this year. Doesn't mean he won't come through for us but I am weary of his long term "fit".

Maatta out for impact forward, 7-3-1, sign Alzner is not a terrible route to take with the ED coming up.

Would you rather have:

Duchene + Alzner

or

Maatta + other assets used to get Duchene + asset we spend the money on...

 

[Ogrezilla]

Cole, yes. Ruhwedel, no.

Schultz will replace Daley. Maatta is the concern for me. He's not been a solid top 4 dman that we need this year. Doesn't mean he won't come through for us but I am weary of his long term "fit".

Maatta out for impact forward, 7-3-1, sign Alzner is not a terrible route to take with the ED coming up.

Would you rather have:

Duchene + Alzner

or

Maatta + other assets used to get Duchene + asset we spend the money on...

can we afford Alzner if we have Duchene?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Cole, yes. Ruhwedel, no.

Schultz will replace Daley. Maatta is the concern for me. He's not been a solid top 4 dman that we need this year. Doesn't mean he won't come through for us but I am weary of his long term "fit".

Maatta out for impact forward, 7-3-1, sign Alzner is not a terrible route to take with the ED coming up.

Would you rather have:

Duchene + Alzner

or

Maatta + other assets used to get Duchene + asset we spend the money on...

I choose Option 3:

Duchene and No Alzner

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why are we still talking about Duchene? The Penguins don't have the assets for him and considering the emergence of Guentzel as Crosby's long term RWer, there's no reason to trade for him either. Just re-sign Bonino and let the dead weight go off the roster. I see literally nothing wrong with this lineup:

Sheary-Crosby-Guentzel
Kessel-Malkin-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Bonino-Sprong
Wilson-Sundqvist-Rust

Outside of maybe a 4C, but that's because I haven't been very impressed with Sundqvist this year. And if you don't like Kessel on LW, swap Guentzel and Hornqvist and make the 2nd line Guentzel-Malkin-Kessel. And if Sprong isn't ready to start next year, I'd probably just put Rust on the 3rd line and have the 4th line be Wilson-Sundqvist-Kuhnhackl, although I don't really like the speed of that 4th line. That's just a Sundqvist issue I have though.

 

[Shady Machine]

Cole, yes. Ruhwedel, no.

Schultz will replace Daley. Maatta is the concern for me. He's not been a solid top 4 dman that we need this year. Doesn't mean he won't come through for us but I am weary of his long term "fit".

Maatta out for impact forward, 7-3-1, sign Alzner is not a terrible route to take with the ED coming up.

Would you rather have:

Duchene + Alzner

or

Maatta + other assets used to get Duchene + asset we spend the money on...

So Duchene at 6 vs Maatta at 4 and Alzner at 5+. Add to that 5 for Schultz and 3 for Dumo. That's a lot of coin

 

[Ogrezilla]

also, I am way less interested in Duchene with how well Guentzel has become.

 

[mpp9]

Why are we still talking about Duchene? The Penguins don't have the assets for him and considering the emergence of Guentzel as Crosby's long term RWer, there's no reason to trade for him either. Just re-sign Bonino and let the dead weight go off the roster. I see literally nothing wrong with this lineup:

Sheary-Crosby-Guentzel
Kessel-Malkin-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Bonino-Sprong
Wilson-Sundqvist-Rust

Outside of maybe a 4C, but that's because I haven't been very impressed with Sundqvist this year. And if you don't like Kessel on LW, swap Guentzel and Hornqvist and make the 2nd line Guentzel-Malkin-Kessel. And if Sprong isn't ready to start next year, I'd probably just put Rust on the 3rd line and have the 4th line be Wilson-Sundqvist-Kuhnhackl, although I don't really like the speed of that 4th line. That's just a Sundqvist issue I have though.

What are you going to do with yourself if/when Sprong is playing in the minors for much of next season?

We're one of the deepest teams in the league on RW. It's not gonna be easy for him to crack the lineup.

As for Duchene. I would tend to agree. I'm not giving up Guentzel. And unless the organization thinks Sprong is still a couple years away from being an impact player, I'd keep him too.

If Sheary is looking for big money this summer, I'd consider dangling him in such a deal. At least it'd make more sense with the cap.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Something I'd like to see the Penguins do this summer is bring Cullen back and start the year with Sundqvist as a winger, or maybe even sign another veteran 4C in free agency. I'm seeing similar issues with Sundqvist that I saw with all of the other young forwards outside of Guentzel in the start of their careers, they need a transition period from the AHL to the NHL. I would not be confident with the current Sundqvist being the Penguins 4C next season.

I would start the year with Sprong in the AHL, Hagelin-Bonino-Rust as the 3rd line and Wilson-Veteran Center-Sundqvist as the 4th line. By the end of the season, I'd want to see Hagelin-Bonino-Sprong and Wilson-Sundqvist-Rust though.

What are you going to do with yourself if/when Sprong is playing in the minors for much of next season?

We're one of the deepest teams in the league on RW. It's not gonna be easy for him to crack the lineup.

Sprong isn't going to spend longer than Guentzel spent in the AHL. Saying he'll be in the minors for "much of next season" is pretty baseless, since it seems like the organization views him and Guentzel as being on the same tier. It's the same overly conservative stuff we saw about Guentzel, how he wouldn't even be able to be a NHL regular until 2018-2019.

The Penguins have a pretty standard development path for young forwards. They spend enough time in the AHL until they're dominating and then they find a spot for them in the NHL. Seeing how Sprong is already a NHL talent and already had 5 goals in 10 games in the AHL playoffs last year, I really don't think he'll be there long. I wouldn't be surprised for him to start the year there (just like I wouldn't be surprised for him to start the year in Pittsburgh), but he sure as hell won't be finishing the year there.

 

[mpp9]

The expectation for a Junior player to spend most of his first pro season in the AHL is pretty common.

Guentzel is a pretty unique circumstance. He's smart in all three zones so coaches will trust him.

I have no idea what will happen, but I'm not expecting him to be an impact NHLer right off the bat.

 

[Rufus]

My interest in Duchene now is essentially zilch. Guentzel and Sheary look like solid wingers for a long time for Crosby. Malkin has Kessel and one of Rust/Hagelin/Sprong. I'd rather invest the kind of money Duchene makes in the defense.

If Alzner isn't a Scuderi and he can play anywhere in the line up on a short term deal. I do not see the risk.

He's one of the better UFA defenseman. He's got little to no motivation to sign a short term deal

 

[Empoleon8771]

The expectation for a Junior player to spend most of his first pro season in the AHL is pretty common.

Guentzel is a pretty unique circumstance. He's smart in all three zones so coaches will trust him.

I have no idea what will happen, but I'm not expecting him to be an impact NHLer right off the bat.

Guentzel really isn't a unique circumstance, the same thing happened with Ho-Sang this year with the Islanders. Ho-Sang is almost a perfect comparable for Sprong IMO, I think him and Sam Bennett are pretty comparable for what Sprong would be able to do in the NHL next year. If he'd start out the year in the NHL, I think he'd finish with around 20 goals and 40 points while being a legit top-9 winger.

Here's basically the best way I can put it. I'm pretty sure every NYI fan is expecting Barzal to play in the NHL next year by the end of the season. If they're expecting that, why is it off base to expect the same for Sprong? It's not uncommon at all for guys to have their draft+3 seasons be the seasons where they break into the NHL. That's exactly what Ho-Sang did this year, he played half a season in the AHL and now he's in the NHL.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

also, I am way less interested in Duchene with how well Guentzel has become.

all the offense are belong to us

 

[jmelm]

Duchene would be great, but I don't know how anyone can calculate us having the assets to get him. We're obviously not going to give up Guentzel or Sprong. So Maatta + 1st rounder + Jarry/Gustavsson doesn't get us close to Duchene IMO.

 

[mpp9]

all the offense are belong to us

 

[Pancakes]

I'm a little leery of just penciling Sundqvist in given I haven't been super impressed with him in his latest call up. I was hoping for a lot more given what he's been doing in the AHL.

I do want to give him a chance but I wouldn't mind signing a vet 4c to push him in camp. It's always risky to just pencil a prospect in. We all thought Pouliot would be ready to go two years ago and then he had that terrible awful camp. If JR had just handed him a spot that would have been a disaster.