Salary Cap: Penguins future roster-building (2017-18 and beyond) | Contract/FA charts in Post #1

[SEALBound]

Alzner's possession stats have dipped pretty heavily this season, and from what I understand at least part of that is him being taken off the Niskanen pairing. So you have to question whether Nisky made him look better than he is.

I'm a little concerned about that, and also the fact that he'd probably cost 5 million or so to sign.

I don't think he's a bad player or anything, but not sure he's worth what we'd have to pay to get him.

I think you have to look at the entire body of his work, not just one season. Overall, he's been a solid dman for several seasons. The other part...go look at his games played and then look me in the eye and tell me it's not appealing.

 

[888 98 twins]

Is Alzner an upgrade on Maatta?

 

[GetThePuckOuttaHere*]

Not really. Protect four defenseman and let Vegas nab one of Hagelin or Rust. We have the forwards to deal with losing a winger, we don't have the defense to deal with losing two defenseman.

Crosby Malkin Kessel Hornqvist Maatta Letang Dumo Schultz Murray

You lose Rust. You can replace him with Sprong either next year or the following.

You lose Hagelin. You can replace him with Guentz, move Wilson up the line-up, or acquire a LW.

Absolutely this + traded Fleury.

If you lose Hagelin, Rust or Wilson can take his spot, and we clear up 4 M bringing our projected cap space to about 23 M (with Fleury also gone), meaning that we can use that extra money to bring in a higher-level 3rd line centre.

Sheary-Crosby-Guentzel
Kessel-Malkin-Hornqvist
Rust-XXXXXXXX-Sprong
Wilson-Sundqvist-Kuhnhackl

Dumoulin-Letang
Maatta-Schultz
XXXXXX-XXXXXXX

Murray
XXXXXXX

Approximately: 23 - Sheary = 19 - Dumo = 15 - Schultz = 10. Get two solid third-pairings for 2.5 each, backup tendu for 2, third line C for 3. If cap goes up a bit, extra cash goes to improving 3C and forward depth (need 8 extra NHLers, apparently).

If you lose Rust, then we keep Hagelin's speed, and our lineup still is hardly affected and Hagelin maintains his top-9 role, with a little less money to spend.

 

[SEALBound]

Is Alzner an upgrade on Maatta?

Better skater. Better defensively, not better offensively. Healthier.

I would say Alzner is very comparable to Dumoulin. I would say Alzner is what Dumoulin will be in 3-4 years.

 

[SEALBound]

Absolutely this + traded Fleury.

If you lose Hagelin, Rust or Wilson can take his spot, and we clear up 4 M bringing our projected cap space to about 23 M (with Fleury also gone), meaning that we can use that extra money to bring in a higher-level 3rd line centre.

Sheary-Crosby-Guentzel
Kessel-Malkin-Hornqvist
Rust-XXXXXXXX-Sprong
Wilson-Sundqvist-Kuhnhackl

Dumoulin-Letang
Maatta-Schultz
XXXXXX-XXXXXXX

Murray
XXXXXXX

Approximately: 23 - Sheary = 19 - Dumo = 15 - Schultz = 10. Get two solid third-pairings for 2.5 each, backup tendu for 2, third line C for 3. If cap goes up a bit, extra cash goes to improving 3C and forward depth (need 8 extra NHLers, apparently).

If you lose Rust, then we keep Hagelin's speed, and our lineup still is hardly affected and Hagelin maintains his top-9 role, with a little less money to spend.

Generally speaking, I like it. I like the way we are constructed.

I do sorta think they will look to move Hagelin over the summer if they can regardless of who we lose. His $4mil hit is tough to swallow ultimately. They could try to move him for someone's expendable 3C or maybe a younger prospect and a pick.

I think Sprong starts in WBS...we all wanted Guentzel to start the year here but he spent a decent amount of time in WBS. Sprong's time will come. I would easily see next year's third line being Wilson-XXXX-Rust. XXXX being Bonino or a 3C trade from Hags.

 

[AgentM]

Absolutely this + traded Fleury.

If you lose Hagelin, Rust or Wilson can take his spot, and we clear up 4 M bringing our projected cap space to about 23 M (with Fleury also gone), meaning that we can use that extra money to bring in a higher-level 3rd line centre.

Sheary-Crosby-Guentzel
Kessel-Malkin-Hornqvist
Rust-XXXXXXXX-Sprong
Wilson-Sundqvist-Kuhnhackl

Dumoulin-Letang
Maatta-Schultz
XXXXXX-XXXXXXX

Murray
XXXXXXX

Approximately: 23 - Sheary = 19 - Dumo = 15 - Schultz = 10. Get two solid third-pairings for 2.5 each, backup tendu for 2, third line C for 3. If cap goes up a bit, extra cash goes to improving 3C and forward depth (need 8 extra NHLers, apparently).

If you lose Rust, then we keep Hagelin's speed, and our lineup still is hardly affected and Hagelin maintains his top-9 role, with a little less money to spend.

Are we still hoping for LV to take Fleury in the draft though? Or is it more likely to be LV saying they will take Fleury's contract off of us if we also trade them someone like Rust?

If that's the case maybe we can get LV to draft someone from another team that we want and make a worthwhile trade for ourselves!

Generally speaking, I like it. I like the way we are constructed.

I do sorta think they will look to move Hagelin over the summer if they can regardless of who we lose. His $4mil hit is tough to swallow ultimately. They could try to move him for someone's expendable 3C or maybe a younger prospect and a pick.

I think Sprong starts in WBS...we all wanted Guentzel to start the year here but he spent a decent amount of time in WBS. Sprong's time will come. I would easily see next year's third line being Wilson-XXXX-Rust. XXXX being Bonino or a 3C trade from Hags.

Agreed that Sprong may start in WBS, probably 50/50 chance at least. Plus we may have a similar situation in ZAR. I'd wager that he'd spend more time in WBS but maybe we're lucky and he's a winter call up and thrives in the bottom six for us like the kids did last year.

 

[Pancakes]

I think you have to look at the entire body of his work, not just one season. Overall, he's been a solid dman for several seasons. The other part...go look at his games played and then look me in the eye and tell me it's not appealing.

I think he's a useful defensive dman. Is that what we need though? We're built to transition with speed. PMD are what we go for.

 

[SEALBound]

I think he's a useful defensive dman. Is that what we need though? We're built to transition with speed. PMD are what we go for.

Then how would Maatta be any better suited for that?

Does our transition game suffer when Maatta is on the ice?

It would be nice to have 6 Letangs and Schultzs but they aren't always available.

Not sure if you've seen our shots against per game lately but I would say there's a decent calling for a defensive dman that can still skate well.

Transitioning with speed is key to the system, yes, but it's built on much more than just pure foot speed.

 

[Shady Machine]

"You can't have 6 Letang's". My favorite quote ever.

 

[JackFr]

Alzner would be a major mistake. Might as well keep Maatta instead of getting him.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Alzner would be a major mistake. Might as well keep Maatta instead of getting him.

I don't know about major mistake but I do wonder how much it's worth it to swap those two out. Also a lot of this talk operates under the idea that Maatta is bad (hence why Alzner would be a significant upgrade) but also worth enough that he'd be in a deal for someone like Trouba. So what is Maatta worth exactly?

My other question would be the validity of acquiring Trouba. Heck I'm not saying I don't like the idea on its surface, but he is an RFA after next year and it sounds like he will want paid a ton of money. Maybe I'm reading the situation wrong, but to me it seems like he would play a year here and refuse to sign unless he was grossly overpaid.

 

[66-30-33]

"You can't have 6 Letang's". My favorite quote ever.

Imagine in this weak draft we got 2 Letangs.

 

[SEALBound]

Imagine in this weak draft we got 2 Letangs.

We could trade one for a Morrow or a Lovejoy!

 

[66-30-33]

We could trade one for a Morrow or a Lovejoy!

Step 1: Draft 2 Letangs
Step 2: Trade them for Morrow and Lovejoy
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit!

 

[Riptide]

I think trading a great player because of injury concerns is a mistake because you just can't predict that stuff. For all we know Letang will be pretty healthy moving forward. Or maybe it will get even worse. But it's a huge gamble to move him just because of injuries.

With Letang? You actually kinda can. This is his 10th season, and he's only ever played 80+ games once. He misses 10+ games almost every single year. And he's missed 20+ games in 3 of the last 6 seasons. When it comes to Letang, you actually can predict that stuff. He has a very long and established record of not playing full seasons.

 

[Gurglesons]

With Letang? You actually kinda can. This is his 10th season, and he's only ever played 80+ games once. He misses 10+ games almost every single year. And he's missed 20+ games in 3 of the last 6 seasons. When it comes to Letang, you actually can predict that stuff. He has a very long and established record of not playing full seasons.

He's missed 5 playoff games in his career because of injury.

Who cares?

 

[SEALBound]

Step 1: Draft 2 Letangs
Step 2: Trade them for Morrow and Lovejoy
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit!

I obtained Step 3 in 2013. Highly classified. My life will be in danger for sharing.

Step 3: Switch RWs to LW. Switch LWs to RW.

If I never post again...you'll know the mustache boys came in the night and juiced me.

 

[66-30-33]

I obtained Step 3 in 2013. Highly classified. My life will be in danger for sharing.

Step 3: Switch RWs to LW. Switch LWs to RW.

If I never post again...you'll know the mustache boys came in the night and juiced me.

Thanks, you put my life in danger aswell. I must move away now, goodbye HFBoards, i'm moving to Germany where nobody will find me.

 

[Riptide]

Better skater. Better defensively, not better offensively. Healthier.

I would say Alzner is very comparable to Dumoulin. I would say Alzner is what Dumoulin will be in 3-4 years.

I would say that's probably a pretty accurate statement. Except that Dumo is better with the puck on his stick with outlet passes or when he wants to skate it up the ice. For whatever reason despite how good he frequently looks, it never seems to translate into points.

 

[GetThePuckOuttaHere*]

I'd trade hags or hope he gets taken in the ED. Then throw ottawa an offer for Dzingel(RFA) who is like hags but better and cheaper.

After ED, Maatta + our first + our second for Ceci, Dzingel, and White?

Seems pretty even to me, would be willing to add a little bit.

As you said, trade Hags and have Dzingel take his spot. Ceci solidies second pair or makes third pair very good. White takes the third line spot, and in 3 years, he moves up to second line and we trade away Malkin just as he begins to leave his prime.

 

[Riptide]

He's missed 5 playoff games in his career because of injury.

Who cares?

When he's only played 16 games out of the last 42 games going back to mid December, that's kind of an issue. Especially since we're battling to get home ice for the playoffs, vs starting on the road against two of the best teams in the league. Then there's the fact that we have what... 10 games left in the season, and he hasn't played a game in a month (and counting)...

Yes this is a guy we're married to. But that doesn't mean we should want to be. If we could change that, it would be something I'd do in a heartbeat.

Oh, and as for those 5 playoff games? The only reason why few of us were upset with that, was because he wasn't the only one hurt - half our blueline and Perron and Malkin were all hurt. Had everyone been healthy except for him, we would have been up in arms about how we'd just wasted a season due to us being entirely dependent on him for our success.

 

[Gurglesons]

When he's only played 16 games out of the last 42 games going back to mid December, that's kind of an issue. Especially since we're battling to get home ice for the playoffs, vs starting on the road. Then there's the fact that we have what... 10 games left in the season, and he hasn't played a game in a month (and counting)...

Yes this is a guy we're married to. But that doesn't mean we should want to be. If we could change that, it would be something I'd do in a heartbeat.

I mean, I'm sure 29 teams would line-up to trade for Letang if you are trying to trade him in a heartbeat.

Shattenkirk and Trouba aren't winning you a cup. Letang has proven time and time again regardless of injuries he is fine in the playoffs.

Malkin hasn't played around 60 games four of the last five years. Also, what other player in our line-up besides our goalie is eating minutes like Letang? He led the NHL in ice time last playoffs. Of course he has nagging injuries? Do you think if the Penguins were really focused on home ice that he wouldn't be playing?

He played 70 games the last two seasons and then played like 30 minutes a night because the rest of our defense sucked in the playoffs. Why would that not effect him?

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

*********************************
Originally Posted by pixiesfanyo View Post
Not really. Protect four defenseman and let Vegas nab one of Hagelin or Rust. We have the forwards to deal with losing a winger, we don't have the defense to deal with losing two defenseman.

Crosby Malkin Kessel Hornqvist Maatta Letang Dumo Schultz Murray

You lose Rust. You can replace him with Sprong either next year or the following.

You lose Hagelin. You can replace him with Guentz, move Wilson up the line-up, or acquire a LW.
************************************
Thank you, perfectly framed. We cannot absorb another Dman being lost, especially with them perpetually being injured. We have Forward prospects, not so much on the D side

 

[billybudd]

Speaking of Dumoulin, did he wreck his wrist at some point? I don't remember his shot being anywhere near as bad as it is when he was on WBS.

 

[Pancakes]

With Letang? You actually kinda can. This is his 10th season, and he's only ever played 80+ games once. He misses 10+ games almost every single year. And he's missed 20+ games in 3 of the last 6 seasons. When it comes to Letang, you actually can predict that stuff. He has a very long and established record of not playing full seasons.

That doesn't mean that's what we can expect in the future though unless you think we can accurately predict that Letang is going to have another stroke or concussion or whatever else.

It's an inaccurate science at best to try to predict how many games a guy will be able to play.