Pre-Game Talk: Penguins at Ottawa (Monday April 22, 2013)

[Dying Alive]

Does Cooke's previously recorded antics not reflect poorly on the league the same as an all out brawl would? You can't argue that Cooke was playing hockey on the ice during his recorded cheap shots yet the Islanders weren't during that brawl. If you do then that look's pretty hypocritical to me..

Lemieux and Shero also brought Cooke in for a meeting and told him to clean up his act or he was out of the organization after he got himself suspended for a playoff round a couple seasons ago. In fact, here's the official team press release regarding the hit:

http://penguins.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=556779

So it's not like they were blithely ignoring his behavior. And as has been mentioned already, having Matt Cooke on the team shouldn't preclude Mario from speaking out against an AHL-level goon punching an obviously injured player while he's already down on the ice and then taunting the injured player from the runway after he's thrown out of the game.

 

[IcedCapp]

What Melnyk and Ottawa fans seem to never be able to grasp (evidence by their constant statements to the effect) is that Matt Cooke can actually play hockey.

He has far more points and fewer penalty minutes than one of the dirtier players in hockey, Chris Neil.

That's what made Matt Cooke's dirty play all the more mind numbing (if we're just ignoring the fact that some of his hits disgust me as a person). He's a good player. He can be fast and physical AND he actually has some offensive ability.

edit: also waiting for this easily producible, archived proofs that the Penguins and/or their fans treated the Crosby concussion anything like Ottawa fans and their organization have treated the Karlsson injury. Since this guy is posting instead of researching, I assume I have to wait for Episode 2 of CSI: Ottawa?

 

[Wes C Addle]

i don't think you fully understood his comments. the view you've endorsed that employment of Cooke precludes Lemieux from expressing disdain for an all out brawl during a hockey game, seems to me to be illogical and misguided. Cooke has a history of committing cheap-shots. that's a fact. but, it does not appear to me to be a fact that should preclude someone from wanting to prevent all-out-brawls in hockey games.

In essence Lemieux stated that the Islanders game reflected poorly on the league because a events escalated to the point that hockey was not being played on the ice. if you think this is the most hypocritical statement by an owner in recent times, well then you might have some cotton in those ears.

Great post. I love hearing the Mario is hypocrite mantra again. Nevermind the fact that Matt Martin barely missed "Bertuzzing" Max Talbot by a split second and Gillies basically mugged Tangradi.

I see a huge difference in what Cooke has done in his past and what transpired on Long Island that night.

 

[h2]

as far as i can remember, most of Cooke's cheap-shots occurred during the course of so-called 'hockey plays' - an all-out Slap Shot like brawl isn't analogous. it apepars you think they are, so i really can't help you there. furthermore Mario and the organization have criticized Cooke's past behavior in the form of an ultimatum that has been documented. on the whole, the views you've expressed in this thread have lacked nuance. i wish i could tell you that i'm surprised.

After watching this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0waePHWjVGY), it's quite clear that Cooke is attempting to deliberately injure other players, I fail to see how this isn't comparable to a brawl like you fail to recognize. If you disagree, that's fine we'll agree to disagree. Also, I don't see why you need to get personal at the end towards me, really.. Try having a debate without trying to get personal or throw subtle insults.

why do you automatically assume that calling out the Islanders for that goonfest of a game is tacit approval of how Cooke played when he was taking runs at people and throwing out cheap hits?

I get this, I just merely brought it up to voice an opinion that Ottawa and Boston aren't the only owners that can speak up and make mistakes.

So was Raffi Torres and a few other dirty players, I agree Cookie was a pretty rough hockey player, but you can't single him out for the Savard incident, Torres-Hossa was pretty disgusting too

You're right, I won't disagree. The Torres hit was pretty disgusting.

Does Eugene Not employ Chris Neal??? Who concussed Boyle? Thank god Boyle was able to recover. But it hardly negates the injury. There is no way you can try to compare the ugly reaction out of Ottawa to the way the Penguin organization handles their business. Pens were solid professionals and Ottawa was as low in the gutter as possible.

Chris Neil has never been suspended in his life (Shocking, I know). Let's not get into the whole "Ottawa is filth and Pittsburgh is classy" thing, it's the main fuel of me posting in this thread. I'm just trying to establish the notion that our two fan bases aren't that different. I feel reactions would be the same in reverse. I've probably wore out my welcome, I will depart.

Again, here's to a good game.

 

[h2]

What Melnyk and Ottawa fans seem to never be able to grasp (evidence by their constant statements to the effect) is that Matt Cooke can actually play hockey.

He has far more points and fewer penalty minutes than one of the dirtier players in hockey, Chris Neil.

That's what made Matt Cooke's dirty play all the more mind numbing (if we're just ignoring the fact that some of his hits disgust me as a person). He's a good player. He can be fast and physical AND he actually has some offensive ability.

edit: also waiting for this easily producible, archived proofs that the Penguins and/or their fans treated the Crosby concussion anything like Ottawa fans and their organization have treated the Karlsson injury. Since this guy is posting instead of researching, I assume I have to wait for Episode 2 of CSI: Ottawa?

Just one last quick post before I depart, I actually do recognize Matt Cooke as a good hockey player. I watched him all the time as a Canuck. He's a very solid player. Won't ever argue that.

 

[Crafton]

Let's not get into the whole "Ottawa is filth and Pittsburgh is classy" thing, it's the main fuel of me posting in this thread. I'm just trying to establish the notion that our two fan bases aren't that different. I feel reactions would be the same in reverse.

i don't think anyone has even remotely suggested Ottawa is filth. we do laugh at your owner. but i'm sure you and the rest of the league laughs at our announcers. those are our fan bases' respective crosses-to-bear. i also don't think anyone is suggesting that Pittsburgh has inherently more class. the objection is that opposing fan bases continually claim that the Penguins and their fans would act just as outraged, or more often than not, even more outraged than their organization has.

our problem with that assertion is that we don't feel it's true based on the empirical evidence. we've seen our superstars get hurt. sometimes on purpose and sometimes on fluke plays and yet we have not (for the most part) experience the same level of mouth-frothing outrage that all these opposing fan bases say would hypothetically happen. sure the potential for our fan base to act like a bunch of nut-jobs is ever present - we do live in a city full of yinzers with the most atrocious sports journalism this side of Ottawa's own Bruce Garrioch.

 

[h2]

i don't think anyone has even remotely suggested Ottawa is filth. we do laugh at your owner. but i'm sure you and the rest of the league laughs at our announcers. those are our fan bases' respective crosses-to-bear. i also don't think anyone is suggesting that Pittsburgh has inherently more class. the objection is that opposing fan bases continually claim that the Penguins and their fans would act just as outraged, or more often than not, even more outraged than their organization has.

our problem with that assertion is that we don't feel it's true based on the empirical evidence. we've seen our superstars get hurt. sometimes on purpose and sometimes on fluke plays and yet we have not (for the most part) experience the same level of mouth-frothing outrage that all these opposing fan bases say would hypothetically happen. sure the potential for our fan base to act like a bunch of nut-jobs is ever present - we do live in a city full of yinzers with the most atrocious sports journalism this side of Ottawa's own Bruce Garrioch.

Fair enough, I can respect this post, I really do. Things just came off differently earlier in this thread in which you touched on. I really don't have any ill-will towards Pittsburgh at all and I just get defensive when Ottawa as a whole is stereotyped because of Melnyk's embarrassing forensic investigation or the acts of other homer fans. But like you said, every franchise has their cross-to-bear, well put. Again, here's to a good game tomorrow and I really do need to go to sleep after posting on this thread for over an hour. Cheers.

 

[Crafton]

Fair enough, I can respect this post, I really do. Things just came off differently earlier in this thread in which you touched on. I really don't have any ill-will towards Pittsburgh at all and I just get defensive when Ottawa as a whole is stereotyped because of Melnyk's embarrassing forensic investigation or the acts of other homer fans. But like you said, every franchise has their cross-to-bear, well put. Again, here's to a good game tomorrow and I really do need to go to sleep after posting on this thread for over an hour. Cheers.

successful resolution of the tension.

on a more positive note, how about that Zibanejad. kid looks like a stud.

 

[jerome garcia]

i want us to go in there and play hard, play to win. this is a potential playoff opponent. lets not make things easy on them. matt cooke can handle himself, no reason to bench him at all. not like he hasn't been through it before.

 

[WhatsaMaatta]

Everyone tries to pin the Penguins organization down for having Cooke on the team, but every franchise has had multiple players just like him. In fact, the Pens have taken more steps toward resolving questionable conduct with their guy(Cooke) than most other franchises. People really just need to let this go, especially Sens fans. The only possible reason you could believe the Karlsson injury was intentional is to justify some perceived future retribution.

 

[66-30-33]

What Melnyk and Ottawa fans seem to never be able to grasp (evidence by their constant statements to the effect) is that Matt Cooke can actually play hockey.

He has far more points and fewer penalty minutes than one of the dirtier players in hockey, Chris Neil.

That's what made Matt Cooke's dirty play all the more mind numbing (if we're just ignoring the fact that some of his hits disgust me as a person). He's a good player. He can be fast and physical AND he actually has some offensive ability.

edit: also waiting for this easily producible, archived proofs that the Penguins and/or their fans treated the Crosby concussion anything like Ottawa fans and their organization have treated the Karlsson injury. Since this guy is posting instead of researching, I assume I have to wait for Episode 2 of CSI: Ottawa?

I'd take Neil on this team. NO i won't trade Neal for him. Neil's dirty but what team does not have dirty players on them? We got Cooke, Malkin at times, Crosby (dirty sick!), Orpik, some others, but whatever.

 

[66-30-33]

Everyone tries to pin the Penguins organization down for having Cooke on the team, but every franchise has had multiple players just like him. In fact, the Pens have taken more steps toward resolving questionable conduct with their guy(Cooke) than most other franchises. People really just need to let this go, especially Sens fans. The only possible reason you could believe the Karlsson injury was intentional is to justify some perceived future retribution.

People have been pinning down the Pens org AND fans before Cooke. Team tanks for talent (like Crosby and co. when it was far from the truth), then you got every single Pens fan is a bandwagon fan! Pens actually have 0 loyal fans, just like they will NEVER win a game if we did not have refs in our pockets. I've watched 90% of Pens reg season games, and 100% of playoff games since i became a fan in 1995. I was kind of a bandwagon jumper as a kid. Habs, Canucks, Nordiques, Jets. I'll say stupid **** in the heat of the moment just like anyone else would, that's why i never post in GDT's during gametime, i watch in living room and read forums on my Iphone 4S not logged in. I wear my Pens hoodie and Pens hat for YEARS (literally, sometimes even to bed...), people tell me to **** at work because i talk about the Pens alot haha.

 

[Laphroaig]

i see this sentiment expressed a lot in opposing GDTs - imagine the outrage of those bandwagon pens fans if their stars were hurt on accidental plays. and yet we've seen our stars both cheap-shotted time and time again and taken out by completely fluke plays. where is the mouth-frothing outrage? Bruins and Sens GDTs are far more vitriolic than anything you can find on this board, and they remain vitriolic months and months after the play. one only has to look at the Cooke thread on the Sens board. that said, fans will be fans. best of luck.

I agree with this. It can be embarassing to be a Sens fan sometimes. This is one of them. Our owner is a moron and it trickles down to way too many fans.

I'm hoping Cooke sits out and we have a normal hockey game. I'm also hoping the best player on the planet returns to action soon. Good health Sidney.

 

[Montresor]

Hoping for a good game, mind throwing us a bone? I know one poster here would rather throw us a bomb, but I think we have a good game in store for both teams.

Don't let some stupid Sens fans Cooke hatefest get to you (I rolled my eyes 5 times when I saw that article), every team has insecure stupid fans. I'm not a fan of Cooke, but he's a good hockey player, and I don't think any Sens players will be looking to do anything stupid, it would just cost us in the end. Here's to a good game with no injuries.

Cheers!

 

[steveg]

I agree with this. It can be embarassing to be a Sens fan sometimes. This is one of them. Our owner is a moron and it trickles down to way too many fans.

I'm hoping Cooke sits out and we have a normal hockey game. I'm also hoping the best player on the planet returns to action soon. Good health Sidney.

Hoping for a good game, mind throwing us a bone? I know one poster here would rather throw us a bomb, but I think we have a good game in store for both teams.

Thanks for two classy posts, Ottawa fans.

Matt Cooke is a good hockey player. At his best, he's one of those annoying, get-under-your-skin, gritty, tough guys that can also burn you with some skill. At his worst (which he has -- to his credit -- largely eliminated), he is a player who has crossed the line from physicality and antagonism over to reckless/cheap/dirty.

As such, I can see why fans of other teams -- especially those who have not seen enough of his play the past two years to see that he took the organization's "scolding" seriously and has changed his ways -- would have strong dislike for him.

Having said that, I like to think that there are very few folks who actually believe that Matt Cooke's intent was to slice open the leg of another player with his skate blade. I would EXPECT anger from any Ottawa fan, or player, after the incident. I would even expect some silly things to be said, in the heat of the moment. But, what was said by Melnyk is over the top, and the fact that this rhetoric coming from some in Ottawa has NOT toned down after the "cooling off" period is what surprises me. A calm, rational mind should be able to see in the replays that Cooke was trying to pin Karlsson to the boards, NOT trying to slice his leg open...

Still, you two posting here shows that obviously, this ridiculousness is NOT shared by all or even most. Logically, that would be expected, but your posts confirm that this nonsense is coming from only a portion of the fan base; sadly, though, it's coming from the owner as well -- and as a "leader," he's a big part of the "cause" of this whole mess.

Thanks for posting, guys. Here's to a good game, and I am quite glad to see Karlsson back on the ice and getting ready to play. That's great to see.

 

[ColePens]

GDT is up. Good spirited discussion here w/o going over the line, guys! Great job.