Post-Game Talk: Penguins 8, Sabres 4 - Doogie Houser Should've Stuck With His Once Promising Medical Career

[Icarium]

It's amazing how this team can score a ton even when Sid and Geno aren't playing anywhere near their best hockey. Now, of course the Sabres played as much defense as we did on Monday and had something like their fifth or sixth best goalie playing but still, nice to see. Magnificent Carter, of course, but Gaudreau's renaissance is pretty incredible too. Not just the points, even though he scores at something like five times the rate he scored prior to coming here but the relentless forecheck too.

Jarry was napping at the job for the first goal but I don't think he played that badly overall, it was just the kind of game where neither team bothered to defend much and the Sabres can attack pretty well these days. Letang taking a dumb chance at the end of that last PK was vintage Letang, at least this time he did when we had a decent lead, so it didn't matter much. Not sure why people are blaming Zucker for Malkin's struggles, Geno seemed to be fighting the puck a bit, hardly surprising after missing almost two months but if it weren't for L3 absolutely destroying the Sabres, I suspect people would appreciate the other three lines a bit more. In comparison to the show L3 put up, everyone else looked mediocre at best.

 

[MrBrightside]

Biggest takeaway I have from last night is that Gaudreau has to play regardless of who is or isn’t healthy.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Biggest takeaway I have from last night is that Gaudreau has to play regardless of who is or isn’t healthy.

I think I'm going to start advocating for playing Gaudreau over ERod, and that's not because I'm unhappy with ERod. I just think you have to keep Gaudreau in.

Gaudreau and ERod offer similar things, but I believe Sullivan uses Gaudreau as a PKer while he doesn't use ERod as one. I think that alone is enough to justify Gaudreau staying in.

 

[Peat]

I think I'm going to start advocating for playing Gaudreau over ERod, and that's not because I'm unhappy with ERod. I just think you have to keep Gaudreau in.

Gaudreau and ERod offer similar things, but I believe Sullivan uses Gaudreau as a PKer while he doesn't use ERod as one. I think that alone is enough to justify Gaudreau staying in.

Similar-ish but I think there's a notable difference in how Gaudreau is doing in the dirty areas and along the boards, which is still occasionally a team weakness, which tilts things even further his way

 

[ColePens]

I don't even think there is a discussion to be had and there hasn't been a discussion for some time. GOAT earned a spot. Sully put him on L3. It's obvious he has a spot when Tanev is back because how the lines are set (BART = L4).

That ship has sailed on even "advocating" or debating. He's in.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't even think there is a discussion to be had and there hasn't been a discussion for some time. GOAT earned a spot. Sully put him on L3. It's obvious he has a spot when Tanev is back because how the lines are set (BART = L4).

That ship has sailed on even "advocating" or debating. He's in.

Eh, I'll believe it when I see it. It wouldn't surprise me whatsoever if the line was McCann-Carter-ERod when everyone is healthy. I don't think how Gaudreau is being used right now really proves anything, because if ERod gets back in, it will be in the same spot that Gaudreau is currently in.

Just for comparison, here's how each compares since April 1st in terms of production and usage:

Rodrigues: 3 goals and 7 points in 15 games with 12:36 TOI/game
Gaudreau: 1 goal and 6 points in 11 games with 13:14 TOI/game

I'm not willing to die on the hill that one of these guys will definitely play over the other.

 

[The Old Master]

I honestly cannot remember a Penguins team who was this deep with scorers.

as one who lived through many playoffs, i have seen a pen's team with 9 players that had scored 20 or more goals that season, only lose 4 games in a row after being up 3 games to 0. be cause of a hot goalie... i still lack any trust in our ability to score.

 

[Daeni10]

40 points for 5.5 million! What a bargain!

Come on, Emp, if for nothing else, dude isn't playing up to his cap hit. That's just being disingenuous.

But there is a difference between underperforming a bit relative to your contract or people wanting you to be healthy scratched once Tanev returns.

 

[MrBrightside]

I'm guessing if everyone is healthy, ERod plays over Gaudreau, but because Gaudreau has been pretty good on faceoffs (53.7% this year) and plays on the PK, it wouldn't shock me if Freddy stays in. He should.

 

[MrBrightside]

as one who lived through many playoffs, i have seen a pen's team with 9 players that had scored 20 or more goals that season, only lose 4 games in a row after being up 3 games to 0. be cause of a hot goalie... i still lack any trust in our ability to score.

I think using something that happened 46 years ago as a basis to analyze this year's team may lead to some flawed conclusions.

 

[HandshakeLine]

But there is a difference between underperforming a bit relative to your contract or people wanting you to be healthy scratched once Tanev returns.

Does Zucker automatically deserve a roster spot if he doesn't perform, though? If Zucker was performing half as well as Emp argues, nobody would care and this board would have a different whipping boy, like ZAR/Sceviour/Jank. Even by the advanced stats test, Zucker is... not doing well. Probably not bad enough to healthy scratch for Zohorna, for example, but is he making a case for performing well enough on any line to justify healthy scratching someone who (in theory) brings a tone-setting/playoff friendly element to his game? I certainly don't really see the justification for him on L2 vs L3, but maybe he'll figure it out soon.

Incidentally @Empoleon8771, I'm not sure how I'm overthinking it-- I'm honestly probably over-reducing it. I'm certainly often guilty of both, but I honestly think that if Zucker wasn't A) a high priced trade acquisition and B) making Rust's pay, people would be lining up to argue for letting him play through it and build chemistry. I don't think it has anything to do with Malkin (if anything Zucker looked even worse during Malkin's absence) besides this board's dumb obsession with drawing a line in the sand between our two generational centers. I'd chalk it up to JR overpaying for Zucker (who's already overpaid by about half a mill, neither of which are his fault) and having a disappointing year.

Also, can we talk about Gaudreau being a very late bloomer? Dude is also producing at a 40 point clip. Is it unsustainable (probably), or has he finally figured it out? (Spoiler: I don't think he's an actual 40 point guy, but he's definitely making a case for getting re-signed.)

 

[HandshakeLine]

Biggest takeaway I have from last night is that Gaudreau has to play regardless of who is or isn’t healthy.

I'll eat some crow on Gaudreau-- I thought he was going to be a defensive specialist given his past trips to the big league, but he's really grown into a legit bottom 6 guy. I don't think he'll keep up this production in a normal year, but he's got some hands and instincts that lots of our other 4th liners don't.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think using something that happened 46 years ago as a basis to analyze this year's team may lead to some flawed conclusions.

Look man, Andy Bathgate's due for a hot streak. It's simple logic!

 

[Al Smith]

I think using something that happened 46 years ago as a basis to analyze this year's team may lead to some flawed conclusions.

You only need to go back 8 years to find a better analogue with many of the same players still around.

 

[spcastlemagic]

Gaudreau is GLUEdreau. He has to stay in the lineup.

 

[MrBrightside]

Also, can we talk about Gaudreau being a very late bloomer? Dude is also producing at a 40 point clip. Is it unsustainable (probably), or has he finally figured it out? (Spoiler: I don't think he's an actual 40 point guy, but he's definitely making a case for getting re-signed.)

Well, he had 4 points in 55 games in Nashville 2 years ago, so it would probably be an unprecedented late blooming if he were suddenly a 40-point guy. That said, everything he's done this year demonstrates that he is currently a very effective 4th line forward, much to most of our surprises.

 

[Pens1566]

Well, he had 4 points in 55 games in Nashville 2 years ago, so it would probably be an unprecedented late blooming if he were suddenly a 40-point guy. That said, everything he's done this year demonstrates that he is currently a very effective 4th line forward, much to most of our surprises.

I'll admit that's a decent data point, but I'm not going to use anyone's offensive #s from Nashville as any real barometer of their true capability. That team is an offensive black hole.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'll admit that's a decent data point, but I'm not going to use anyone's offensive #s from Nashville as any real barometer of their true capability. That team is an offensive black hole.

I think if anything, this season is so incredibly weird that we really shouldn't extrapolate much from it.

 

[pistolpete11]

Gaudreau is the type that if you can sign for league minimum again, you do it and feel pretty good about it, but you also have to consider a backup plan in case he turns back into a pumpkin.

But yeah, for this year, there's no question he's one of their best 12 forwards at the moment. I'd still prefer him at 4C, Blueger at 3C, and Carter at 3RW, but can't argue with the game that L3 just put in.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Gaudreau is the type that if you can sign for league minimum again, you do it and feel pretty good about it, but you also have to consider a backup plan in case he turns back into a pumpkin.

The thing with Gaudreau which makes him a safe signing IMO, is even if his offensive game disappears again, he's a good defensive forward and faceoff guy. So, it's not like he ceases to be valuable, he just becomes less valuable as a purely-defensive 4C than as an okay bottom 6 RW/C.

 

[pistolpete11]

The thing with Gaudreau which makes him a safe signing IMO, is even if his offensive game disappears again, he's a good defensive forward and faceoff guy. So, it's not like he ceases to be valuable, he just becomes less valuable as a purely-defensive 4C than as an okay bottom 6 RW/C.

To a certain extent, yes, but if he puts up 4 points in 55 games like his last season in Nashville, this board would be getting their pitchforks and torches out.

 

[Turin]

McCann has massively improved his playmaking this year. I’m glad to be wrong about him, he’s no Sutter esque offensive player.

 

[rick6668]

Read this on the Philly board:

Carter has as many goals this game as Patrick has all year.

 

[HandshakeLine]

To a certain extent, yes, but if he puts up 4 points in 55 games like his last season in Nashville, this board would be getting their pitchforks and torches out.

Probably. I'd be fine with it if we decided the 4th line should be a purely defensive/grinding line, but we're not set up for that. That being said, Zohorna and Gaudreau looked pretty good together for stretches, so I'm optimistic about the chances of that not happening. Either way, having a guy at league minimum or a little over on L4 who's struggling offensively is way more survivable than, say L2/L3 going ice cold. You can bury him, put him on waivers, demote him to WB/S, throw him in on a trade, etc.

I wouldn't want to give him more than maybe 900K per year, but I think a 2x900K contract is a perfectly achievable target for Gaudreau.

 

[Al Smith]

Read this on the Philly board:

Carter has as many goals this game as Patrick has all year.

That’s not the whole story. It’s
hard to quantify the value to the Flyers Patrick provided by knocking Mark Friedman out for an extended period of time.