Post-Game Talk: Penguins 8, Sabres 4 - Doogie Houser Should've Stuck With His Once Promising Medical Career

[Icarium]

I can't believe this board has gone from dumping on Johnson to Zucker. Look at all the garbage on other contending teams

You really can't believe it? If discussion of whipping boys is banned, the activity on this board will be drastically reduced.

 

[Andy99]

Perhaps I’m being crazy after a good game by GOAT but he was winning some board battles and could help in that respect against Boston...so am I crazy to suggest that these might be better PO lines?

Jake-Sid-GOAT
Rust-G-Kap
Zucker-McCann-Carter
BART

 

[chethejet]

Zucker trade was GMJR keeping the Pens in the hunt after Jake went down. MY issue as always was GMJR would take on term with out any give back from the trade partner. I am not sure Hextall will be better but I do think he is not going to take on term and risk financial costs

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Zucker trade was GMJR keeping the Pens in the hunt after Jake went down. MY issue as always was GMJR would take on term with out any give back from the trade partner. I am not sure Hextall will be better but I do think he is not going to take on term and risk financial costs

I think they really wanted him for a while. They attempted to trade Kessel for him but Kessel blocked it.

 

[MrBrightside]

Perhaps I’m being crazy after a good game by GOAT but he was winning some board battles and could help in that respect against Boston...so am I crazy to suggest that these might be better PO lines?

Jake-Sid-GOAT
Rust-G-Kap
Zucker-McCann-Carter
BART

Yes, you are crazy to suggest that top line

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm not for getting weird with the lineup just because of how few games are left, but if you were to get weird and move Rust to LW, I think the obvious lines are Guentzel-Crosby-Zucker and Rust-Malkin-Kapanen. But they shouldn't be doing that for pretty obvious reasons IMO.

 

[Gurglesons]

Even with last night removed the numbers are staggering for these two.

 

[Night Shift]

Bet you Zucker starts scoring in the playoffs. Hold me to it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Even with last night removed the numbers are staggering for these two.

I'm curious to see what they do next year with the lines. With Zucker likely being a cap/expansion draft casualty, do they keep McCann-Carter and Malkin-Kapanen as duos and alternate guys like Tanev, Poulin, Legare, Zohorna and such through the other spots.

 

[madinsomniac]

I absolutely refuse to dump on Zucker or Petts too much if at all... petts is maatta with better foot speed and less leverage... he is the stick on puck guy they like to run out there... yeah he isn’t going to have the upside that marino does long term, and he will get walked at times, but he is way better as the weak link d than previous d corps have had


Zucker is just streaky and sometimes plays hesitant... when he is confident and decisive he is good...

This team doesn’t have a glass or adams on it... even janks is a better vanilla player than some of the low end options that we rolled out in the past and he is Even playing

 

[wgknestrick]

Does anyone on this team have good PK numbers?

Pettersson is by far our best D with Dumo number 2. Sceviour/Jank best Fs.

You can see how they rank in goals against per minute of 4v5 time here (GA/60). These numbers can be skewed a little due to coach deployment of always mating certain players against #1PP units vs #2PP. It's harder to filter that effect out though, but it's about a 10-15% modifier team to team.
Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

7GA/60min of 4v5 time is about average PK-ing results. Below that, good. BTW Letang gives up > twice as many goals/minute as Pettersson does. You can have a huge impact on this PK by subbing him out for Petts and saving Letang's minutes for the PP and 5v5. There is talent on this roster to have a good PK, but deployment is not optimized, putting the best players in a position to succeed. It is going to cost us PO games unless it's fixed, and the fix sounds "crazy" from a knee jerk reaction POV. It's backed by data though.

 

[Pens1566]

Carter has been great, even before last night. He just checks so many boxes.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I just know the hate and delusion related to Zucker is getting out of control when posters are seriously stating that Geno and Kap forcing things is happening because of Zucker (because Malkin never forced things before Zucker got here. Before Zucker, Geno was in god mode 24/7).

As an early member of the Zucker haters club, even I think the Zucker hate has gone overboard at this point, especially considering that he has, in fact, adjusted his game since Geno has been back. He's been far better in just keeping the game simple, and he's going to the net with consistency. That's where he's picking up his points, the goal last game, the assist to Carter on the PP was great. This is a different player than we've been seeing up to this point this year. He's not overhandling the puck. He's playing well and showing some heart.

Geno, on the other hand, doesn't look good. It's starting to get concerning. Even though Zucker may be playing well right now, getting Geno going is more important than forcing a line combo, and I'd really like to see McCann with Geno and Kappy again, that's when Geno played the best, and it might get him going again just based on confidence. And Zucker/Carter works well too.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Geno, on the other hand, doesn't look good. It's starting to get concerning. Even though Zucker may be playing well right now, getting Geno going is more important than forcing a line combo, and I'd really like to see McCann with Geno and Kappy again, that's when Geno played the best, and it might get him going again just based on confidence. And Zucker/Carter works well too.

I'm getting that same feeling as the end of last year where it's hard for me to see this guy scoring even one goal the rest of the way out.

I completely agree with your premise. I'm largely done bagging too hard on Zucker. It is what it is. But for the sake of getting what could be a huge game-changer on track it would have been nice to see some adjustments made. But it isn't happening, now.

 

[Andy99]

Yes, you are crazy to suggest that top line

And yet I still think that top line is going to be in trouble in the POs because they don’t have anyone good enough at winning board battles there against a physical team like Boston

 

[Headshot77]

Friedman offers more speed than Riikola. We obsess about speed until it’s about our player crush the preseason prince.


I think Riikola may not be very smart. Still a mystery why he decided to sign here. Don’t feel bad for him ever he never had to play in the minors.

Getting paid a million dollars to eat nachos is pretty smart IMO.

 

[Khelandros]

11 pages and everyone glosses over Rust and Guentzle to shit on Zucker. The last few games those two have looked bad and disinterested. Crosby just looks deflated on most of the plays. Something needs to happen with them cause they are going to get eaten up come Playoffs if they keep playing this way.

 

[PhilThrillPill]

Meh a good dub can be an amazing thing. Lupin on netflix is a pitch perfect french film dubbed to English seamlessly... subtitles are so last century


Also bad dubs are often even better that good ones in a humorous way... ie every foreign kung fu movie ever....

Whatever you say.... TAMMY!

 

[Gurglesons]

Zucker has 5 goals and 11 points in 20 games since coming back from injury.

I get people are looking at McCann and Kapanen and expecting that level from Zucker, but I think that is a little unfair. I think the eyetest has been rough with Zucker and the analytics aren’t very good, but he is producing in important situations.

 

[XanderCrews34]

Hopefully the Carter-McCann line does well enough to make Boston have to do some funky stuff with matchups or they just feast ala HBK in 16

Those two could really make a huge difference here

 

[Peat]

Does Zucker automatically deserve a roster spot if he doesn't perform, though? If Zucker was performing half as well as Emp argues, nobody would care and this board would have a different whipping boy, like ZAR/Sceviour/Jank. Even by the advanced stats test, Zucker is... not doing well. Probably not bad enough to healthy scratch for Zohorna, for example, but is he making a case for performing well enough on any line to justify healthy scratching someone who (in theory) brings a tone-setting/playoff friendly element to his game? I certainly don't really see the justification for him on L2 vs L3, but maybe he'll figure it out soon.

In the 20 games since he got back, Zucker's at an xGF% of 49.13, which is good for 8th out of the 18 forwards we've used, or 6th out of the 13 forwards we've used with over a 100 minutes, wedged in between Sid and Rust. I guess that's maybe not well but it's not bad either and the only guys notably outperforming him are Gaudreau and Carter.

Production wise, he's got 11 points in 20 overall - good for 5th on the team (although Carter and Kapanen beat him hard on pace), and is 6th for goals.

That record isn't exactly what we hoped for when we got him, but it's not far off it and it's decent. It should be well away from HS talk. It looks a little bad compared to Carter and Kapanen coming into the line up in that time like gods of war - kinda like Zucker did last season - but that's them being great, not Zucker being really bad.

There's one big question on whether we've got him and McCann the right way around but otherwise, I think all is well enough with Zucker right now, and that's question isn't totally about him either. If he backslides/sucks in the playoffs, revisit, but only then.

 

[HandshakeLine]

On the other hand, it's pretty wild that there are people here who think Zucker is having a good year as opposed to a good stretch of games.

To be clear: Zucker is both a non-entity and a non-problem at the moment. He'll be a problem in the offseason if he doesn't produce in the post season, he's an annoyance at the moment.

 

[Gurglesons]

On the other hand, it's pretty wild that there are people here who think Zucker is having a good year as opposed to a good stretch of games.

To be clear: Zucker is both a non-entity and a non-problem at the moment. He'll be a problem in the offseason if he doesn't produce in the post season, he's an annoyance at the moment.

Has anyone said Zucker has had a good year?

I think a lot of people criticizing Zucker aren’t looking at the extracurriculars of this season and realizing Zucker has gotten f***ed the hardest by it on top of his injuries.

He’s the only one on the team from my knowledge with multiple children that are at an age when not being around them actually means something to them. And he’s been unable to travel to Minnesota due to quarantine protocol.

He’s scoring at a 40 pt pace while playing largely away from the big line we’ve had this year. It could be much worse and having him around is great if he is about to go on a hot streak.

I’m not happy with the trade right now. I don’t see any future for him here.

 

[Peat]

I think that's a pretty fair way of talking about it, but at the same time, there are also players like Rust and McCann who are out producing Zuck. McCann in particular hasn't had any of the advantages that Zucker has been gifted, outside of time on PP1 very briefly, but he's still producing well beyond Mr. Minnesota and people have been slagging him all season for that trouble. McCann's scoring at a 60 point clip and people are still calling him streaky, fer chrissakes!

Are you trying to make the case that the critical elements of the fanbase here is correct on Zucker, or that the fanbase here contains large elements of irrationality on every player?

Has anyone said Zucker has had a good year?

I think a lot of people criticizing Zucker aren’t looking at the extracurriculars of this season and realizing Zucker has gotten f***ed the hardest by it on top of his injuries.

He’s the only one on the team from my knowledge with multiple children that are at an age when not being around them actually means something to them. And he’s been unable to travel to Minnesota due to quarantine protocol.

He’s scoring at a 40 pt pace while playing largely away from the big line we’ve had this year. It could be much worse and having him around is great if he is about to go on a hot streak.

I’m not happy with the trade right now. I don’t see any future for him here.

This. I also haven't seen many people saying good year. Okay-ish year. Worse things happen at sea year.

He's a player we paid a fair price for who's not particularly working out but whose current form is a plus and who has more potential to run really hot for us than any likely alternatives.

 

[ColePens]

Perhaps I’m being crazy after a good game by GOAT but he was winning some board battles and could help in that respect against Boston...so am I crazy to suggest that these might be better PO lines?

Jake-Sid-GOAT
Rust-G-Kap
Zucker-McCann-Carter
BART

Thinking outside the box is never dumb and sparks good conversation.

I actually love these lines. However, this close to the playoffs would be tricky to try something new. I think the depth is amazing.