Post-Game Talk: Penguins 5, Lightning 2 - Kunitz Inspires A Pens Victory

[bambamcam4ever]

Why is that better than just overall 5v5?

Teams that are losing shoot more often, at typically lower %s while teams leading shoot less, but get higher quality chances.

Unfortunately, the Penguins have been losing by multiple goals more often than they have been leading, which skews the unadjusted shot attempt numbers.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I would agree with you of last years team but not this years.

Easier just because they don't have to travel doesn't make up for the difference in team makeup.

So in sense of being easier due to being home, sure. Easier being who they are today, no.

What? What does the makeup of the roster have to do with the discussion about a hard/easy schedule remaining?

Whether the Pens have an all-star roster or the worst roster in hockey, their schedule from December to April is much easier than their schedule from October until now has been.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

And several of us said the bottom six direction was an issue this off season. Specifically trading for Reaves. Not against the player per se, but more moving from what won two cups.

Not that signing Reaves would have made Cullen stay, which is the center issue much more than Bones. But it set the wrong tone and direction which they still are dealing with.

Trying to protect your stars when the league won't, is most certainly not setting the wrong tone.

There are zero reasons this team can't still play fast, but Sullivan is loyal to his guys for now and Sprong, DiPauli, and Archibald just have to wait it out.

I'd gladly take this, and we all should of had lower expectations than we do. Before/during and after the trade.

I really think most of us thought the team was going to not miss a beat to some extent. That precluded decent additions over the summer.

I'm only surprised by the lack of 5v5 scoring. I pretty much said in the prediction thread they would have a rough go for the first few mo, and people would turn on this team and Sullivan... with KIRK carrying the lead torch.

Was hoping to be wrong on both accounts, but oh well...

 

[NMK11]

So fair enough. Rank them for me. Rank these players from those who shouldn't be playing to last (who should be playing).
- Kuhn
- Rowney
- Reaves
- Archi
- Sheahan
- McKegg
- Hags

When you look at that list, Sheahan probably is the most deserving of playing followed by a poorly struggling Hags. Then after that - it's a bunch of fringe NHLers which, IMO, none are playing worth a damn with our identity. Not saying Riley is our answer but is he really a top issue on the team right now?

Did you read my post at all? I didnt say the bottom 6 is the top issue, I agree with you that its not. But the top issue doesnt lend itself to discussion, and this is a message board so it isnt harped on as much. The bottom 6, well, theres a plethora of opinions and options so people talk about it more.

 

[cygnus47]

I still think our breakout and defensive zone is our biggest issue 5 v 5. We're still using the shitty Bylsma tactic of jamming the puck up the boards rather than creating real outlets with control. Our D are healthy, we have plenty of puck movers, it's time to get back to controlling the puck out of the zone. We also have our sticks in the air and we're still puck watching and IMO not challenging up high enough.

When we lead more games by controlling the puck, the other team will take more chances. Our shooting % will improve as we get more real scoring chances at ES. When we stop turning the puck over at the blueline and start buckling down in the defensive zone our SV% will improve. Put those together and we'll win a lot of games.

 

[ColePens]

I still think our breakout and defensive zone is our biggest issue 5 v 5. We're still using the ****ty Bylsma tactic of jamming the puck up the boards rather than creating real outlets with control. Our D are healthy, we have plenty of puck movers, it's time to get back to controlling the puck out of the zone. We also have our sticks in the air and we're still puck watching and IMO not challenging up high enough.

When we lead more games by controlling the puck, the other team will take more chances. Our shooting % will improve as we get more real scoring chances at ES. When we stop turning the puck over at the blueline and start buckling down in the defensive zone our SV% will improve. Put those together and we'll win a lot of games.

I think a lot of that comes from the focus, attention to details, and work ethic. IMO, the defenders are really lacking work ethic. They should want to win a battle and look for an outlet. They are taking the easy way out and just firing it after half assing a battle. Then our winger should be creating space and looking to chip. Then we should be moving (stop/starting) and supporting.

Everyone seems to want to take the easy road on our team and it starts with the defense. Until last night, the battling has been terrible. I think a lot of our problems on the ice stem from that.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

completely agree. Needs be damned, I'll take Wilson 10 times out of 10 on my team over Sheahan

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, so I'll assume not because it is more fun.

You'd take the guy who is pointless, with only 13 shots, in 19 games over a solid defensive C who can eat some tough minutes and has 5 points in his last 6 games? 10 times out of 10? Well then rejoice because at this rate we'll be able to grab him off of the waiver wire.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

I think a lot of that comes from the focus, attention to details, and work ethic. IMO, the defenders are really lacking work ethic. They should want to win a battle and look for an outlet. They are taking the easy way out and just firing it after half assing a battle. Then our winger should be creating space and looking to chip. Then we should be moving (stop/starting) and supporting.

Everyone seems to want to take the easy road on our team and it starts with the defense. Until last night, the battling has been terrible. I think a lot of our problems on the ice stem from that.

Agreed. I think it was Bourque who said something similar in a post game recently. He said something along the lines of too many guys are getting into the room after the game and feeling like they just played a pickup game rather than battle for 2 points. He also said something about some guys coasting and other guys trying to do too much, which I thought was interesting.

 

[cygnus47]

I think a lot of that comes from the focus, attention to details, and work ethic. IMO, the defenders are really lacking work ethic. They should want to win a battle and look for an outlet. They are taking the easy way out and just firing it after half assing a battle. Then our winger should be creating space and looking to chip. Then we should be moving (stop/starting) and supporting.

Everyone seems to want to take the easy road on our team and it starts with the defense. Until last night, the battling has been terrible. I think a lot of our problems on the ice stem from that.

Man, I really hope it isn't just lack of fire. That would be very disappointing. The way Sid was playing before the last couple games... I guess I could believe it.

I hope Sully has them drilling the breakout every morning and is yelling at them every time they jam it up the boards with no purpose or allow a cross seam pass because they don't have their stick in the lane.

 

[KIRK]

Man, I really hope it isn't just lack of fire. That would be very disappointing. The way Sid was playing before the last couple games... I guess I could believe it.

I hope Sully has them drilling the breakout every morning and is yelling at them every time they jam it up the boards with no purpose or allow a cross seam pass because they don't have their stick in the lane.

Oh come on.

 

[cygnus47]

Oh come on.

?

You think Sid was playing like Sid all season?

 

[KIRK]

?

You think Sid was playing like Sid all season?

No, but it's not for lack of fire as much as it's lack of legs and perhaps wanting to conserve himself a little.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Agreed. I think it was Bourque who said something similar in a post game recently. He said something along the lines of too many guys are getting into the room after the game and feeling like they just played a pickup game rather than battle for 2 points. He also said something about some guys coasting and other guys trying to do too much, which I thought was interesting.

My only question is even if this is true is it a bad thing?

They are in the playoffs, getting needed rest and healthier overall than they have been I years.

If so, good for them. It is smart.

 

[KIRK]

My only question is even if this is true is it a bad thing?

They are in the playoffs, getting needed rest and healthier overall than they have been I years.

If so, good for them. It is smart.

Actually, they're 9th in the conference, and the teams tied for 10th are 3 points back with 3 or 4 games in hand.

 

[SEALBound]

FINALLY got to see the game. Amazing game all the way through I thought and a great stepping stone to getting back on track.

Jarry was a beast. If THAT is the back up goaltending we get, no need to get another back up.

I may have missed this but...why is Cole sitting? Minor injury or is he seriously being scratched for Rudwedel?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Actually, they're 9th in the conference, and the teams tied for 10th are 3 points back with 3 or 4 games in hand.

With mostly road games and 7 back to backs.

 

[cygnus47]

No, but it's not for lack of fire as much as it's lack of legs and perhaps wanting to conserve himself a little.

I don't expect him to stand in front of the net and get cross checked or be the first backchecker and first forechecker every shift like he used to. I expect him to try and score when he has a chance though, instead of turning his ass towards the net and looking for low percentage passes all night. That doesn't require you to kill your legs.

 

[ColePens]

No, but it's not for lack of fire as much as it's lack of legs and perhaps wanting to conserve himself a little.

Meh I think @cygnus47 isn't wrong. Fire comes with many things. Mental preparation, being physically able, having some sort of natural fire inside you, etc. I can guarantee you Sid, Geno, and the entire Penguins team are telling themselves "Come on.. let's go. Pick it up." They know they need more. But that natural fire comes from within and they don't have it. I know 87 and 71 want to cement the biggest legacy of all time, but it doesn't matter. They don't have that natural fire that makes you want to win every 50/50 battle. They don't have it right now. Sid's battle level last night showed that it is on the way.

You know how I know i'm right w/o being at practice or inside the head of these players? It's because the actions speak for themselves. It's no surprise to me that Kessel isn't having an issue because that guy plays the game and treats it like a game regardless. So he's even keeled no matter what. He could win 10 Cups in a row or lose 10 seasons in a row and he'll come out doing what he does. And it doesn't shock me Hornqvist has it. That guy wakes up with that hunger and that hunger is what makes him an expensive NHL player. It sure as hell isn't skills. His desire and his heart pushes him to be the NHL player.

And that goes for the guys like Sheary, Guentzel, Rust, etc. It's not on purpose to not have fire. When you win a title and you are on that high, it's really hard to remember and focus on all the small things that make you great. I didn't think it would be this bad, but I expected it for 5-10 games. But it most definitely is a lack of fire. But no - it's not on purpose. It's just natural.

 

[ColePens]

Trying to protect your stars when the league won't, is most certainly not setting the wrong tone.

There are zero reasons this team can't still play fast, but Sullivan is loyal to his guys for now and Sprong, DiPauli, and Archibald just have to wait it out.

So I definitely think you are right about protecting the stars... but I think ultimately at what cost? Because right now our identity makes us successful and win championships. I was okay with Reaves if he was not going to be a main staple in the lineup night in/night out. I said I'd give it 40+ games to see how it'd go, but right now he's playing every night.. even when it's the Chicago/Tampas of the world who have 0 desire to mix it up.

So I guess this comes down to the playoffs. If he dresses in the playoffs, that's a mega issue, IMO. Because so far, he can't play with our identity. He's just not skilled enough and it's really showing.

 

[KIRK]

Meh I think @cygnus47 isn't wrong. Fire comes with many things. Mental preparation, being physically able, having some sort of natural fire inside you, etc. I can guarantee you Sid, Geno, and the entire Penguins team are telling themselves "Come on.. let's go. Pick it up." They know they need more. But that natural fire comes from within and they don't have it. I know 87 and 71 want to cement the biggest legacy of all time, but it doesn't matter. They don't have that natural fire that makes you want to win every 50/50 battle. They don't have it right now. Sid's battle level last night showed that it is on the way.

You know how I know i'm right w/o being at practice or inside the head of these players? It's because the actions speak for themselves. It's no surprise to me that Kessel isn't having an issue because that guy plays the game and treats it like a game regardless. So he's even keeled no matter what. He could win 10 Cups in a row or lose 10 seasons in a row and he'll come out doing what he does. And it doesn't shock me Hornqvist has it. That guy wakes up with that hunger and that hunger is what makes him an expensive NHL player. It sure as hell isn't skills. His desire and his heart pushes him to be the NHL player.

And that goes for the guys like Sheary, Guentzel, Rust, etc. It's not on purpose to not have fire. When you win a title and you are on that high, it's really hard to remember and focus on all the small things that make you great. I didn't think it would be this bad, but I expected it for 5-10 games. But it most definitely is a lack of fire. But no - it's not on purpose. It's just natural.

If THAT is what is meant by fire, then I can buy that.

I just know, because I've been told, Sid and Geno still are searching for their legs a little bit. It's not just will. It's also that the body isn't fully cooperative yet.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

My only question is even if this is true is it a bad thing?

They are in the playoffs, getting needed rest and healthier overall than they have been I years.

If so, good for them. It is smart.

I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing, to a point, but I think they have squandered a few too many points thus far. You don't want guys spending themselves/getting injured fighting for a playoff spot for the rest of the season. That would defeat the purpose.

Either way, I think it is about time for them to turn things around and start restoring good habits and working on details.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

So I definitely think you are right about protecting the stars... but I think ultimately at what cost? Because right now our identity makes us successful and win championships. I was okay with Reaves if he was not going to be a main staple in the lineup night in/night out. I said I'd give it 40+ games to see how it'd go, but right now he's playing every night.. even when it's the Chicago/Tampas of the world who have 0 desire to mix it up.

So I guess this comes down to the playoffs. If he dresses in the playoffs, that's a mega issue, IMO. Because so far, he can't play with our identity. He's just not skilled enough and it's really showing.

Kuhnhackel and Rowney aren't skilled or fast enough either. Hags and McKegg aren't skilled enough. It's funny in a twisted kind of way, but Hagelin has the same exact stat line as Reaves.

Reaves has been very disruptive on the forecheck, but what good does it do when your linemates blow ass and can't do anything with the puck?

So basically, it's not a Ryan Reaves problem, it's a roster construction problem. However, people want to find scapegoats, so they look at the new guy, the guy many people were upset about JR acquiring.

I keep saying it, but Sullivan has last say on who is in the lineup. So until he decides this group isn't right for his system, I don't expect any changes.

All summed up, this team has the players on the bench and in the A to be a fast, skilled and attacking team again, with Reaves in the lineup. Sullivan has chosen a different roster construction... why? I dunno, but I'll keep being patient with him until he realizes changes need to be made.

 

[ColePens]

Well I agree with you completely. And I think so much really changed, as many have said before, when Cullen went to Minnesota. That guy as our 4C changes so much. It would have allowed us to do so many different things.

Bummer. Oh well. Time to get creative to stay on top of the mountain!

 

[Ugene Magic]

What? What does the makeup of the roster have to do with the discussion about a hard/easy schedule remaining?

Whether the Pens have an all-star roster or the worst roster in hockey, their schedule from December to April is much easier than their schedule from October until now has been.

Because B2B's are still that, *hard* and not having depth to counter so many means everything. I don't care if they are away or home sitting waiting.

You are taking a two month stretch and comparing it to 5 months, really 3 months and a week.

1 B2B - Dec. The easiest of all months.
3 B2B's - Jan: They have 3 B2B's in a 15 day span in Jan. 2 in less than a week. 2 days between them.
3B2B's - Feb: 1 to start off 2 in a 8 day span
41/2 B2B's -March: is worse than Jan. but I didn't notice before, but they also close out March with one into the first game in April 4 1/2 B2B's
1 1/2 B2B's - April: One leading into the week and one closing the lone week.

You are not looking at the schedule very well.

They are not easy whatsoever.

 

[KIRK]

Well I agree with you completely. And I think so much really changed, as many have said before, when Cullen went to Minnesota. That guy as our 4C changes so much. It would have allowed us to do so many different things.

Bummer. Oh well. Time to get creative to stay on top of the mountain!

That's another reason why the 'JR should've done X during the summer' argument is so flawed. Let's see what's gone wrong so far . . .

1. Cullen went to Minnesota, which nobody could've expected.
2. Sid has been off.
3. Letang has pretty much been a train wreck.
4. Jake regressed a little and Hags is healthy but still not scoring.

JR knew the bottom six was going to have issues, but the only way to know it would be this bad, relatively speaking, was if he ASSUMED the worst case scenario.

And, if he ASSUMED the worst case scenario, then there still was no market for him to work with. He wasn't going to outbid other teams on dollars and term for a 3C. There was no trade market . . . he was always in on Duchene and would've offered more than anyone, but when Sakic finally was ready, what he wanted was something JR didn't have. So, really, what was left . . . to offer Scott Wilson and a 1st to Vegas for Karlsson or Lindberg. I'd have done it for Karlsson, because I've been a believer since watching what he did against Sid in the playoffs, but if you're JR and you know Sid and Geno can hold the fort and think odds are that Cullen comes back, then I get why he did what he did.

Really, the people crying about what JR did this summer (a) think he should've known everything was going to go wrong (especially with 87/58) and (b) should've 'forced' a deal based on that.

Look, I think JR needs to do more than tinker now, you know that. But, I'm smart enough to know that it's a lot smarter to add later than it is to assume the worst case and force deals that you don't get to redo.