Post-Game Talk: Penguins 5, Lightning 2 - Kunitz Inspires A Pens Victory

[Jaded-Fan]

Not every player can throw a pass like that or be that aware unfortunately. He's showing more confidence each game and that's why JR got him, to bring the 36pt Sheahan on this team and yes maybe people nitpick the **** out of his game because he's not the guy they want and can't take off the blinders. But I guarantee if he scores a big goal or two in the playoffs the same haters will be saying I told you he wasn't bad.

I don't get it. He had an amazing pass to Hunwick which isn't some fluke either he had the awareness to. He's found Kessel twice for goals too. But hey I guess that still isn't enough to say maybe we should stay patient since he's actually improved.

Yup. My thoughts when the trade was made were that what made HBK work was Bonino's ability to spring his speedy wingers with perfect passes behind the defense. I am happy with Sheahan so far, especially for the price. Situationally sound, good two way game and can make that pass. No clue why anyone would be disappointed. Even when not scoring he does the right things.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The pens got an early xmas present from the refs this game.

I dunno how they got two 5 on 3 for that long.

Jarry played great, i'd start him next game against Philly, Murray has played in to many games and he isn't playing all that great either.

I haven't looked it up, but I am fairly sure that the Pens have had fewer 5 on 3s than any team in the league the last two years.

This does not come close to making up for them be unfairly shorted for so long.

 

[Shaffer]

I can’t wait(5 foward PP)

—-72—-
41-87-71
—-81—-

 

[cheesedanish87]

It made perfect sense. 4 minutes for high sticking. Then you have the 2nd penalty for the 5 on 3. The first double minor had 2:23 left on it. We scored in 20 seconds of the beginning 5 on 3, which eliminated the 1st of the double minor leaving two full penalties giving us the 5 on 3. If we had scored 4 seconds later, we would have been down to just 1 penalty with 1:59 left on it.

I understand all that.

I'm just saying the refs never put a team down 5 on 3 twice during the game for close to 2 mins each time.

The TB bench was bitching to the refs early in the game, as we have seen with Sid earlier this year when you complain to the refs the refs usually start calling more penalties on your team.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I just realized something, the Penguins have by far the worst PDO on the year this year. I don't know how they managed to do it, but they're dead last in both 5v5 shooting% and 5v5 save%. Those just flat out aren't sustainable, the fact that the Penguins have a record where it's at right now with a PDO of 955 (average is 1000) should speak volumes for how good this team actually is when they're playing at their normal level.

The Penguins have not had below a 7.5% on ice shooting% since 2009, it's almost always between 7.5% and 9% (all full seasons are within those 2 bounds). The Penguins are at 5.1% this season, it's not going to last. Same with 5v5 save%, the lowest in any season was .909 in 2011-2012 and they're at .904 right now. Since Bylsma was fired, the Penguins haven't had a 5v5 save% of less than .925 (.925 in 14-15, .926 in 15-16, .930 in 16-17).

If there's any silver lining with how the team has done so far, it's that: this level is completely unsustainable. Their PDO right now is the worst PDO of all time since it started to be tracked in 2009-2010.

 

[Ugene Magic]

We need to have a good December apparently

For sure. It would give a good buffer for (we hope) the normal win one/lose one minimum 2 point outcomes of B2B's. Anything less and they are in (real) danger.

In fairness, Wilson has no points in 16 games with Detroit. I think he regressed and the Pens knew it.

All of these secondary depth guys are all encompassed on the first depth guys who drove the team's in game production. It isn't a shocker they all have fallen off the map per say. Some more than others, that depth simply isn't there anymore. They will probably never get that top to bottom depth ever again. That's why keeping the team together last year worked. Without injuries and they probably cruise to the finals again last year instead of being dummy down to the competition.

This years team would have to fight tooth and nail like last year even healthy.

Edit: It would make for a great iconic storyline, though.

 

[Andy99]

I just realized something, the Penguins have by far the worst PDO on the year this year. I don't know how they managed to do it, but they're dead last in both 5v5 shooting% and 5v5 save%. Those just flat out aren't sustainable, the fact that the Penguins have a record where it's at right now with a PDO of 955 (average is 1000) should speak volumes for how good this team actually is when they're playing at their normal level.

The Penguins have not had below a 7.5% on ice shooting% since 2009, it's almost always between 7.5% and 9% (all full seasons are within those 2 bounds). The Penguins are at 5.1% this season, it's not going to last. Same with 5v5 save%, the lowest in any season was .909 in 2011-2012 and they're at .904 right now. Since Bylsma was fired, the Penguins haven't had a 5v5 save% of less than .925 (.925 in 14-15, .926 in 15-16, .930 in 16-17).

If there's any silver lining with how the team has done so far, it's that: this level is completely unsustainable. Their PDO right now is the worst PDO of all time since it started to be tracked in 2009-2010.

You can't just assume it will turn around sufficiently this year. Obviously the longer this goes on the better the odds of it getting back to normal. But LA spent all of last year pretty much with atrocious PDO and missed the playoffs....didn't turn around until this year

 

[Empoleon8771]

You can't just assume it will turn around sufficiently this year. Obviously the longer this goes on the better the odds of it getting back to normal. But LA spent all of last year pretty much with atrocious PDO and missed the playoffs....didn't turn around until this year

You kinda can, though. The Penguins don't just have an atrocious PDO, it's historically bad, it's the worst of all time. There is absolutely no reason to expect that a team with Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Guentzel, Sheary and Hornqvist will continue shooting at 5.1% at ES. It's just not sustainable at all. And on the same token, there's no reason to expect that a goalie tandem of Murray-Jarry with a defense led by Letang, Maatta and Dumoulin is going to have a .904 on ice save%. Their numbers aren't even in the same stratosphere as they were in even the last 3 years, including when Johnston was here.

The 2014-2015 Penguins were worse in every single way than the Penguins today (worse coach, worse forwards, worse defense, worse goaltending), and that team had a 1001 PTO with a 7.5% on ice shooting% and a .926 on ice save%. You can completely assume that they're going to turn it around, because it's borderline impossible for them not to turn it around.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yup. My thoughts when the trade was made were that what made HBK work was Bonino's ability to spring his speedy wingers with perfect passes behind the defense. I am happy with Sheahan so far, especially for the price. Situationally sound, good two way game and can make that pass. No clue why anyone would be disappointed. Even when not scoring he does the right things.

If Sheahan works out and rediscovers his scoring touch, he is going to make a lot of posters look stupid. So it's only natural they are going to keep rooting agt him.

Last I heard he wasn't a playmaker... those sweet passes he made the last couple of games were lucky, see.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I just realized something, the Penguins have by far the worst PDO on the year this year. I don't know how they managed to do it, but they're dead last in both 5v5 shooting% and 5v5 save%. Those just flat out aren't sustainable, the fact that the Penguins have a record where it's at right now with a PDO of 955 (average is 1000) should speak volumes for how good this team actually is when they're playing at their normal level.

The Penguins have not had below a 7.5% on ice shooting% since 2009, it's almost always between 7.5% and 9% (all full seasons are within those 2 bounds). The Penguins are at 5.1% this season, it's not going to last. Same with 5v5 save%, the lowest in any season was .909 in 2011-2012 and they're at .904 right now. Since Bylsma was fired, the Penguins haven't had a 5v5 save% of less than .925 (.925 in 14-15, .926 in 15-16, .930 in 16-17).

If there's any silver lining with how the team has done so far, it's that: this level is completely unsustainable. Their PDO right now is the worst PDO of all time since it started to be tracked in 2009-2010.

To further your point, the Pens have an extremely decent CF% and FF%. 13th and 7th.

Team Advanced Stats Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

Those stats have been overused, but still are the first place to look for a team who can go far in the playoffs.

 

[Ugene Magic]

If Sheahan works out and rediscovers his scoring touch, he is going to make a lot of posters look stupid. So it's only natural they are going to keep rooting agt him.

Last I heard he wasn't a playmaker... those sweet passes he made the last couple of games were lucky, see.

I'll admit, I'm very skeptical of Sheahan as a 3C, and he's got nothing but time to wash away doubts. At least a couple months. That's all that Bonino needed and Sheahan should get that same chance. He'll get it by default anyways. They simply can't afford to bring in better without cost getting in the way.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

To further your point, the Pens have an extremely decent CF% and FF%. 13th and 7th.

Team Advanced Stats Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

Those stats have been overused, but still are the first place to look for a team who can go far in the playoffs.

You want to look at 5v5 close, where their numbers are 18th and 20th.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

One further point on my post above. Fenwick is Corsi with the blocked shots removed. Pens have noticebly shied away from blocked shots this season, and remained pretty healthy. Come playoff time that will change. 7th in Fenwick is beyond good given that notion.

 

[ColePens]

I just feel like with all the things the Pens are doing poorly, Sheahan is not even in the top 10 list of things that should be discussed. I'm not saying he's the answer. I'm not defending his lack of scoring touch. The guy does make really good defensive plays and just off the top of my head I can count 2 specific scoring chances he stopped himself. So at the very worst, he's defensively responsible.

Nothing has changed since the summer with needing to bolster our bottom 6. My issue is that we thought this would be the #1 issue all season long. Right now, it's not. So overly complaining about Sheahan is sort of weird right now.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'll admit, I'm very skeptical of Sheahan as a 3C, and he's got nothing but time to wash away doubts. At least a couple months. That's all that Bonino needed and Sheahan should get that same chance. He'll get it by default anyways. They simply can't afford to bring in better without cost getting in the way.

Bonino needed more than a couple of months to wash away doubt, he had only 11 points in 41 games before the trade deadline in 2015-2016. He didn't come alive until March, where he finished the year with 18 points in 21 games.

You want to look at 5v5 close, where their numbers are 18th and 20th.

Why is that better than just overall 5v5?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

You want to look at 5v5 close, where their numbers are 18th and 20th.

I am not saying that the Pens have been merely unlucky or anything like that. They have looked bad for long periods, and the analytics will mostly reflect that. Even though I believe that a lot of it is many intentionally not making the effort I am not blind to it.

But there are reasons to believe that the Pens have much more to give, and will give that when it matters.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The schedule eases up for the month of Dec., ONLY.

One B2B and back to the 3 B2B grind a month the rest of the way save April's one week schedule, also with a B2B.

So don't be fooled by this one month break.

It's not just the back to backs, it's the road heavy schedule to start the season. Pens played something like 13 out of the first 19 on the road, including 3 back to backs.

They may still have a few back to backs this year, but they also play way more home games the rest of the way than on the road. That's what makes the schedule easier from here on out.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'll admit, I'm very skeptical of Sheahan as a 3C, and he's got nothing but time to wash away doubts. At least a couple months. That's all that Bonino needed and Sheahan should get that same chance. He'll get it by default anyways. They simply can't afford to bring in better without cost getting in the way.

It's fine to have doubts about him as their third pivot. I was one of his biggest proponents before and after the trade, but I'm not delusional and understand that he still needs to score - no way around it.

It's the people that flipped out about losing some coal miner and a mid round pick, and they can't admit it was a good trade.

Sheahan was brought in for peanuts and has taken the hardest fwd minutes and done quite well. He's done everything I hoped he would, but my expectations were realistic.

I suspected the worst case scenario would be he wouldn't regain his scoring touch, but would help this team in many other ways, and he has.

The trade is already a win, but if he starts scoring consistently, JR got a steal.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Bonino needed more than a couple of months to wash away doubt, he had only 11 points in 41 games before the trade deadline in 2015-2016. He didn't come alive until March, where he finished the year with 18 points in 21 games.

A few injuries (the hand for 16 games) might have something to do with that. He only played 63 games. I think a couple months is about right. The team in general wasn't playing well until Dec. when the change of the HC happened.

 

[NMK11]

I just feel like with all the things the Pens are doing poorly, Sheahan is not even in the top 10 list of things that should be discussed. I'm not saying he's the answer. I'm not defending his lack of scoring touch. The guy does make really good defensive plays and just off the top of my head I can count 2 specific scoring chances he stopped himself. So at the very worst, he's defensively responsible.

Nothing has changed since the summer with needing to bolster our bottom 6. My issue is that we thought this would be the #1 issue all season long. Right now, it's not. So overly complaining about Sheahan is sort of weird right now.

I guess its because the bottom 6 is something that likely needs to be fixed externally, so it gives us something to talk about and debate. There really isnt much to say about the bigger systemic problems, pretty much everyone agrees the effort and focus is an issue but theres just not as much to talk about.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Bonino needed more than a couple of months to wash away doubt, he had only 11 points in 41 games before the trade deadline in 2015-2016. He didn't come alive until March, where he finished the year with 18 points in 21 games.



Why is that better than just overall 5v5?

I suppose the thinking is that if the score is within a goal teams act differently.

But if you are going to use a single stat as a playoff predictor, and only one, CF% has been the traditional go to with fairly good success.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

And several of us said the bottom six direction was an issue this off season. Specifically trading for Reaves. Not against the player per se, but more moving from what won two cups.

Not that signing Reaves would have made Cullen stay, which is the center issue much more than Bones. But it set the wrong tone and direction which they still are dealing with.

 

[ColePens]

I guess its because the bottom 6 is something that likely needs to be fixed externally, so it gives us something to talk about and debate. There really isnt much to say about the bigger systemic problems, pretty much everyone agrees the effort and focus is an issue but theres just not as much to talk about.

So fair enough. Rank them for me. Rank these players from those who shouldn't be playing to last (who should be playing).
- Kuhn
- Rowney
- Reaves
- Archi
- Sheahan
- McKegg
- Hags

When you look at that list, Sheahan probably is the most deserving of playing followed by a poorly struggling Hags. Then after that - it's a bunch of fringe NHLers which, IMO, none are playing worth a damn with our identity. Not saying Riley is our answer but is he really a top issue on the team right now?

 

[ColePens]

And several of us said the bottom six direction was an issue this off season. Specifically trading for Reaves. Not against the player per se, but more moving from what won two cups.

Not that signing Reaves would have made Cullen stay, which is the center issue much more than Bones. But it set the wrong tone and direction which they still are dealing with.

This post x10000000.

With that being said, the major issues are still focus (details/hunger/battle level) and Sid/Letang. We saw a much better 87 and 58 last night and IMO that's a difference maker in this team easily making the playoffs and not making the playoffs. If the team battles, focuses, and plays the way they can - we know we need to fix the bottom 6, but we are a shoe-in for the playoffs. If we fix the bottom 6, we become legit contenders.

 

[Ugene Magic]

It's not just the back to backs, it's the road heavy schedule to start the season. Pens played something like 13 out of the first 19 on the road, including 3 back to backs.

They may still have a few back to backs this year, but they also play way more home games the rest of the way than on the road. That's what makes the schedule easier from here on out.

I would agree with you of last years team but not this years.

Easier just because they don't have to travel doesn't make up for the difference in team makeup.

So in sense of being easier due to being home, sure. Easier being who they are today, no.

It's fine to have doubts about him as their third pivot. I was one of his biggest proponents before and after the trade, but I'm not delusional and understand that he still needs to score - no way around it.

It's the people that flipped out about losing some coal miner and a mid round pick, and they can't admit it was a good trade.

Sheahan was brought in for peanuts and has taken the hardest fwd minutes and done quite well. He's done everything I hoped he would, but my expectations were realistic.

I suspected the worst case scenario would be he wouldn't regain his scoring touch, but would help this team in many other ways, and he has.

The trade is already a win, but if he starts scoring consistently, JR got a steal.

I'd gladly take this, and we all should of had lower expectations than we do. Before/during and after the trade.

I really think most of us thought the team was going to not miss a beat to some extent. That precluded decent additions over the summer.