Post-Game Talk: Penguins 3, Oilers 2 - Baby Steps?

[EightyOne]

Trades really don't work for us. There are not many realistically tradeable players who will return a net positive. Yeah, chemistry and skill is lacking throughout the bottom six/d-core/goal, but it's more miracle than normal to Daley a Scuderi. We aren't flipping anybody crappy for anybody less crappy.

That win was all #30. Oilers are not good but should have put up 6.

 

[The Old Master]

You cannot tell me with a straight face that Sheahan has been worse than Regular Season Bonino. Bones was somewhere between ok to straight up garbage during the 2 regular seasons he was on the Pens. He single handedly killed HBK last year, most of us saw that HBK was dead quite early and it wasn't until around Dec that Sully had had enough to stop the nonsense.

Sheahan isn't the problem. We don't have the luxury of acquiring a guy like Duchesne to go 3 lines deep. Sheahan is more than adequate to replace what Bones did (which wasn't much in the regular season).

I don't think it's about whos playing better. it's about seeing who and where players can fit and do even better. if jake is moved to center why not give sheahan a shot at wing? he was playing there before. let him stand in front of the net so geno can bonce some shots off him and see what happens. he could also help with the face offs on that line....it's worth a shot any way. imo

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Trades really don't work for us. There are not many players who will return a net positive. Yeah, chemistry and skill is lacking, but it's more miracle than normal to Daley a Scuderi.

That win was all #30. Oilers are not good but should have put up 6.

What? Kessel trade? Hornqvist for Neal? Hagelin for Perron? Daley for Scuderi? Bonino for Sutter?

No team or GM is ever going to get 100% of trades right, but I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that "trades really don't work for us"?

 

[Shady Machine]

Yeah, I think anyone focusing too much on the "we miss Bonino, damn that Sheahan" thing is overlooking the actual loss that hasn't been close to being replaced, and that's Cullen at 4C.

Cullen's performance essentially turned that 4th line into a second 3rd line.

The drop from Bonino to Sheahan isn't anywhere close to the drop from McKegg/Rowney to Cullen. Not even close.

Has anyone said otherwise? The issue is we haven't adequately replaced either and if you lose both, you need an upgrade on Bones to try to offset the loss of both. That's what I've been saying all summer.

 

[Gurglesons]

So I guess I question the pixies of the world who are questioning those who are discussing Letang's woes this season. It makes no sense to me. Why is he off limits to discuss?

Uh. I also pointed out in the post you originally quoted that Letang is far from playing "good"

Just the incessant complaints about him on the power play when he is once again producing there are just getting to Kunitz level default complaints.

Letang had one giveaway last night. The GDT made it seem like he led the team or something.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

Yeah I liked what I saw from Letang last night. There was a play where Maatta was getting beat to the outside with speed and Letang came all the way out of nowhere from the other side of the ice to break up the play. No other defensemen on this team could have made that play.

His assist on Horny's goal is exactly what he needs to do more of. Gonchar was great at getting those shots through for tips or rebounds. They don't need to be super hard as long as they get through.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Has anyone said otherwise? The issue is we haven't adequately replaced either and if you lose both, you need an upgrade on Bones to try to offset the loss of both. That's what I've been saying all summer.

It just seems like most of the complaints are focusing on the not re-signing Bonino part. Cullen only seems to receive mentioning in passing.

My point is I don't think the bottom six with Bonino/McKegg would look any better than the current bottom six does, largely because it's not the Bonino/Sheahan swap that is the biggest downgrade, but the McKegg/Cullen part.

 

[Shady Machine]

It just seems like most of the complaints are focusing on the not re-signing Bonino part. Cullen only seems to receive mentioning in passing.

My point is I don't think the bottom six with Bonino/McKegg would look any better than the current bottom six does, largely because it's not the Bonino/Sheahan swap that is the biggest downgrade, but the McKegg/Cullen part.

Well JR couldn't not control the Cullen part other than seeking a different option like Moore, but we talked about that enough.

Bonino is better than Sheahan so yeah I think they'd look better. Not sure how anyone can seriously argue otherwise.

How much better is up for debate.

 

[Ogrezilla]

So I guess I question the pixies of the world who are questioning those who are discussing Letang's woes this season. It makes no sense to me. Why is he off limits to discuss?

Oh he's worth discussing for sure. I do think people tend to go a bit overboard on him a lot of the time, but it's been pretty deserving this year. People go overboard on Sid, geno, and kessel too. It comes with high expectations.

But if you read our gdts without watching, youd think we should be looking to find some sucker team to take him off of our hands.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Well JR couldn't not control the Cullen part other than seeking a different option like Moore, but we talked about that enough.

Bonino is better than Sheahan so yeah I think they'd look better. Not sure how anyone can seriously argue otherwise.

How much better is up for debate.

Bonino's been a notoriously slow starter his first two years in Pittsburgh. So, from an offensive point of view (which is the sticking point since Sheahan has been fine defensively), Bonino's not exactly an upgrade on Sheahan from October until around February or March.

This has always been my issue with people clamoring for Bonino, and how our bottom six would look so much better *right now* with him. Bonino's production while he was a Pen has never been good early in the season. So I'm not sure why people believe he'd be lighting it up at this point of the season compared to what Sheahan has been doing.

So, if we're talking about Bonino's highs, yes, they're higher than Sheahan. But Bonino's early season form, particularly in a Pens' uniform, wasn't any higher than what we're getting out of Sheahan right now.

 

[ColePens]

Yeah I liked what I saw from Letang last night. There was a play where Maatta was getting beat to the outside with speed and Letang came all the way out of nowhere from the other side of the ice to break up the play. No other defensemen on this team could have made that play.

His assist on Horny's goal is exactly what he needs to do more of. Gonchar was great at getting those shots through for tips or rebounds. They don't need to be super hard as long as they get through.

Are you talking about the 2nd goal? Because that's not how you play it. You only weak side support if you have numbers. That's a really poor analysis if that's what you are talking about.

When you have numbers, then you support over and attack. If you don't, you cannot do that unless you have a switch engaged. On goal #2 for the Oilers, that's 100% Letang's responsibility to stay home and not chase the bad bounce.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Who do people think will be the odd centre out when Rowney gets off IR?

Basically a pick 'em right now AFAIC.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yeah, I think anyone focusing too much on the "we miss Bonino, damn that Sheahan" thing is overlooking the actual loss that hasn't been close to being replaced, and that's Cullen at 4C.

Cullen's performance essentially turned that 4th line into a second 3rd line.

The drop from Bonino to Sheahan isn't anywhere close to the drop from McKegg/Rowney to Cullen. Not even close.

Sheahan hasn't looked any worse than "pre-HBK when it was good" Bonino.

I'm with you and have been for awhile with the Cullen loss. He is the guy they are struggling to replace and he made coal miners like Kuhn look like real NHLers. He basically produced like a third line center.

McKegg has done an admirable job and bought them time while JR landed a more legit guy in Sheahan. I'd like to see TB get a shot as the fourth pivot to see where he's at, and soon, so JR knows if it's a position of need or not heading into the deadline.

 

[ColePens]

Oh he's worth discussing for sure. I do think people tend to go a bit overboard on him a lot of the time, but it's been pretty deserving this year. People go overboard on Sid, geno, and kessel too. It comes with high expectations.

But if you read our gdts without watching, youd think we should be looking to find some sucker team to take him off of our hands.

I can't speak for the KIRK's of the world (sarcasm) who cannot control their emotions. But seriously... it's ridiculous to be lumped in with the fools who are just whining to whine. Ignore them. There is good discussion to be had otherwise.

But I see it all the time with 71/87 and now 58. If you question what they are doing out there or hold them to a higher standard, there seems to be a group of people who fight against it because you shouldn't be calling out their beloved players.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Who do people think will be the odd centre out when Rowney gets off IR?

Basically a pick 'em right now AFAIC.

Someone else will get hurt. If McKegg does something while Rowney is out it'll be Rowney. Otherwise, flip a coin.

 

[Peat]

I can see a case for having both McKegg and Rowney on the 4th line.

Well JR couldn't not control the Cullen part other than seeking a different option like Moore, but we talked about that enough.

Bonino is better than Sheahan so yeah I think they'd look better. Not sure how anyone can seriously argue otherwise.

How much better is up for debate.

I think Bonino's level of success as a 3C points to him and Sheahan being roughly equal in that role.

I also think people might want to rethink what can be expected from a 3C taking big defensive minutes and what the numbers they post when doing so means about their talent. Karlsson posted 25 points last season iirc. Bonino's ES production was there, Sheahan's ES production when not shooting like poo is a little under but about there too. All three have shown notably better numbers when played in more attacking roles.

And I also think given Bonino's history of slow starts and not looking bothered until play-off time, the idea that he'd improve our current malaise rather than being a full part of it is one with some large holes in it.

Where we may end up missing Bonino is when Sid & Geno get injured in the RS next year. Right now? Not in my book.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I can't speak for the KIRK's of the world (sarcasm) who cannot control their emotions. But seriously... it's ridiculous to be lumped in with the fools who are just whining to whine. Ignore them. There is good discussion to be had otherwise.

But I see it all the time with 71/87 and now 58. If you question what they are doing out there or hold them to a higher standard, there seems to be a group of people who fight against it because you shouldn't be calling out their beloved players.

I think a good half of the board falls into one of those two categories though, so it's tough And in general, I'm a pretty damn positive person. So I'll naturally be trending to the defending side of that. And in my opinion, Letang has always gotten way more shit than he's deserved on this board. This year he might actually deserve it, but this isn't new. Kessel is the other guy who gets way too much shit on here, though he seems to have shut up most everybody lately.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

Are you talking about the 2nd goal? Because that's not how you play it. You only weak side support if you have numbers. That's a really poor analysis if that's what you are talking about.

When you have numbers, then you support over and attack. If you don't, you cannot do that unless you have a switch engaged. On goal #2 for the Oilers, that's 100% Letang's responsibility to stay home and not chase the bad bounce.

Huh? No, he broke up the play I'm talking about, the Oilers didn't even get a shot on goal, I think it was in the first period if I'm not mistaken. An Oiler (forget who, maybe Drai?) was skating down the right wing boards right past Maatta and was about to cut in towards the net when Letang came across and broke up the play. If Letang doesn't make that play, the Oiler player beats Maatta cleanly and drives towards the net on (at least) a partial breakaway. Even the Oiler announcer was surprised that Letang made it back there. He wasn't even on the TV screen when Maatta got turned around and passed.

Why would I praise Letang for leaving his man to chase McDavid past the net which led to a goal? Of course that was his fault. It's a classic example of Letang trying to do too much. That play I did NOT like, but I felt his game was much better than it's been overall.

 

[EightyOne]

What? Kessel trade? Hornqvist for Neal? Hagelin for Perron? Daley for Scuderi? Bonino for Sutter?

No team or GM is ever going to get 100% of trades right, but I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that "trades really don't work for us"?

What I meant was..THIS team right now does not have any desirable assets that can be traded for anything better.

Our roster is either untouchable superstar, overpaid underperformer, or roster filler trash that can be traded for roster filler trash. No one wants our draft picks because who wants to pick 30th at best?

I just dont see who JR can move off the roster today for a better player without losing.

No one wants our bottom two lines. We don't even want them. What does Mckegg return but another Mckegg? Who would take Hags? Losing any of our top six likely won't result in a better player top six.

I feel the bed was made in the off season, losing talent-signing trash-trading for pointlessness, and they gotta sleep in it this year.

 

[Clare2904]

Jarry in net tonight, hopefully the team give him better support than De Smith got

 

[DegenX]

GDT is up ...