Post-Game Talk: Penguins 3, Oilers 2 - Baby Steps?

[Riptide]

Apparently we've been pronouncing Sheary's name wrong all of this time. It's like Share-y, not Sheer-y. Fun fact for the day.

I'll just keep spelling it Sheary and you can all guess at how I'm pronouncing it. ; )

 

[PensandCaps]

Untouchable... yet you just want to put him on the 4th line. Sounds pretty touchable to me.

It was just a suggestion,Lol. I don't think Hornqvist could drive a 4th line as well as Rust could. If the RWers are Rust,Sprong,Kessel and Hornqvist. One of them have to play on the 4th line. Rust is best suited for it.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Does every player we'd prefer not to trade have to be deemed untouchable?

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I liked the response to the juggling last night. Yes one can say Murray saved us but Murray's job on this team is to play very well (not stop 18 shots and win). He will have to work for his wins, and he seems up for the task. The defense looks much better with Maatta-Letang, Dumoulin-Ruhwedel and Cole-Corrado. Letang made 2-3 major mistakes with the puck, especially the one when he tried the fancy back pass behind our net that almost led to a goal. But overall, he was better.

That said, these lines were just to shake the tree. There is no sustainability with these units. I liked what Archibald brought to the fourth line, and having two speedsters with Reaves makes sense. But we can't have Kuhnhackl on the Malkin line! Kuhnhackl will go from decent to useless in a nano-second. We should not split Malkin-Kessel if we want even-strength production. And I much prefer Guentzel-Crosby-Sheary over Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist, but if we are going to keep the top line intact, maybe we should try Guentzel at center? The only argument for not trying Guentzel at center was because we did not want to break up Guentzel-Crosby. Well, they're broken up.

The lines as we have them now cater to us winning games like last night...solid defense, Murray playing very well and the PP clicking. It is NOT a recipe for long-term success. We need to get the lines going, offensively.

Maybe we should try Sheahan on Malkin's wing? Assuming the top line stays the same (which I am against):

Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist
Sheahan-Malkin-Kessel
Rust-Guentzel-Sprong?
Archibald-McKegg-Reaves

Thoughts?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Does every player we'd prefer not to trade have to be deemed untouchable?

You must be new here.

This is HF where trade proposals for talented long term good contract signed needed players are prefaced with 'everyone is available but ....'

and then has a list of two dozen players or prospects who are apparently not touchable.

But anyone else on the team, fair game.

 

[Andy99]

I liked the response to the juggling last night. Yes one can say Murray saved us but Murray's job on this team is to play very well (not stop 18 shots and win). He will have to work for his wins, and he seems up for the task. The defense looks much better with Maatta-Letang, Dumoulin-Ruhwedel and Cole-Corrado. Letang made 2-3 major mistakes with the puck, especially the one when he tried the fancy back pass behind our net that almost led to a goal. But overall, he was better.

That said, these lines were just to shake the tree. There is no sustainability with these units. I liked what Archibald brought to the fourth line, and having two speedsters with Reaves makes sense. But we can't have Kuhnhackl on the Malkin line! Kuhnhackl will go from decent to useless in a nano-second. We should not split Malkin-Kessel if we want even-strength production. And I much prefer Guentzel-Crosby-Sheary over Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist, but if we are going to keep the top line intact, maybe we should try Guentzel at center? The only argument for not trying Guentzel at center was because we did not want to break up Guentzel-Crosby. Well, they're broken up.

The lines as we have them now cater to us winning games like last night...solid defense, Murray playing very well and the PP clicking. It is NOT a recipe for long-term success. We need to get the lines going, offensively.

Maybe we should try Sheahan on Malkin's wing? Assuming the top line stays the same (which I am against):

Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist
Sheahan-Malkin-Kessel
Rust-Guentzel-Sprong?
Archibald-McKegg-Reaves

Thoughts?

I like trying Sheahan on LW since he's useless at 3C and replacing him with Jake, who's looked good at center in brief stints and it may help jump start his game. But I don't see these lines as any permanent solution. Also, I doubt they're bringing Sprong over for quite awhile...and where is Hags? On the bench? Again, don't see that happening long term unless he's traded. But...
S-C-H
S-M-Kessel/Rust
Hags-Guentzel-Kessel/Rust

Would be worth looking at....

 

[Pens x]

I like trying Sheahan on LW since he's useless at 3C and replacing him with Jake, who's looked good at center in brief stints and it may help jump start his game. But I don't see these lines as any permanent solution. Also, I doubt they're bringing Sprong over for quite awhile...and where is Hags? On the bench? Again, don't see that happening long term unless he's traded. But...
S-C-H
S-M-Kessel/Rust
Hags-Guentzel-Kessel/Rust

Would be worth looking at....

Why do people hate Geno? Sheahan is more offensively inept than Kuhn, why do that to Geno? Also why did we acquire Sheahan if we are going to play him on the wing? I give Sheahan credit, I didn't think he could find a way to score less than his 13 points from last season but he is well on his way.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Why do people hate Geno? Sheahan is more offensively inept than Kuhn, why do that to Geno? Also why did we acquire Sheahan if we are going to play him on the wing? I give Sheahan credit, I didn't think he could find a way to score less than his 13 points from last season but he is well on his way.

My idea is basically to replace Kuhn because a LOT of people feel that Malkin-Kessel need a defensively responsible winger with them. I like Rust there, personally.

If Sheahan can't play with Malkin, then it's off to the fourth line for him. He is proving to be unworthy of 3C status.

 

[cheesedanish87]

The best thing that happened in that game is i think Letang played his best game of the year, hopefully he can build on that.

I would put Jake in the press box tonight, hes been terrible for a while now, sometimes young players need to be sent a message.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

The best thing that happened in that game is i think Letang played his best game of the year, hopefully he can build on that.

I would put Jake in the press box tonight, hes been terrible for a while now, sometimes young players need to be sent a message.

He did and still made 2-3 bad plays. Not worried about Kris, he will get better
Big night from Murray, he was spectacular. He almost robbed Draisaitl on that goal.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Letang is always going to make some bad plays. So does every top end D-man, at least the offensive ones. That's always been my issue with people criticizing Letang. It's not that they are wrong, he absolutely does make mistakes. It's that so many people seem to think Letang is the only top end D who makes these mistakes. If Letang didn't make those mistakes, he'd be the best d-man in the league.

That said, he's been making more mistakes this year than he normally does, by quite a bit. His typical game this season up until last night was something you'd see from him maybe a handful of games a season most years. Last night was a step in the right direction for sure. Still probably on the low end of what I'd consider his typical range in terms of mistakes though. Not a bad game exactly, but a "he's usually better than this" type of game. But there's still a big gap between how he played last night and how he has shown he is capable of playing.

After Sully came in in 15-16, Letang played the best hockey of his career the remainder of that season. That was Letang looking like a top 3 d-man. That was the guy in the Conn Smythe discussion. That's the guy I want to see again. I'm glad he's moving in the right direction, but he's a LONG way off from that guy right now.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Like you said it's going to be tough. Who is he willing to cut? He wants to re-sign Hornqvist (and I imagine he has the same struggles with that as our board does, with regards to his fit, his contract and the term that would be needed). He can't move Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Murray, Guentzel or Letang. He probably cannot make the team better by moving Dumoulin, Maatta, Schultz and taking contracts/production into account Rust or Sheary and potentially Cole. That leaves Hagelin, Reaves, Sheahan and Hunwick - or picks and prospects. Given that we know JR is very high on Sprong, he too is probably off the table.

Bottom line... that doesn't leave him too many trade options. Cap wise this team is in good shape (now and going forward)... but our options are still limited. The pieces that have value, are needed too much here to be traded, and those we can move do not have any value (or enough to make it worth it).


PS... your double and triple space after a period drives me nuts. So here is some informational reading for you. At least the ******ed new board corrects it in the quotes and the posted text. We just have to read it when replying to you.
http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/two-spaces-after-a-period?page=1

Interesting. I should note that I was TAUGHT to double space after periods. Don't blame me, blame my educators many moons ago. (please note that I continued to utilize the double space, not out of spite, out of habit.)

 

[ColePens]

Letang is always going to make some bad plays. So does every top end D-man, at least the offensive ones. That's always been my issue with people criticizing Letang. It's not that they are wrong, he absolutely does make mistakes. It's that so many people seem to think Letang is the only top end D who makes these mistakes. If Letang didn't make those mistakes, he'd be the best d-man in the league.

That said, he's been making more mistakes this year than he normally does, by quite a bit. His typical game this season up until last night was something you'd see from him maybe a handful of games a season most years. Last night was a step in the right direction for sure. Still probably on the low end of what I'd consider his typical range in terms of mistakes though. Not a bad game exactly, but a "he's usually better than this" type of game. But there's still a big gap between how he played last night and how he has shown he is capable of playing.

After Sully came in in 15-16, Letang played the best hockey of his career the remainder of that season. That was Letang looking like a top 3 d-man. That was the guy in the Conn Smythe discussion. That's the guy I want to see again. I'm glad he's moving in the right direction, but he's a LONG way off from that guy right now.

So let's talk about this year/last night. Do you feel this year and last night Letang just is making some casual usual bad plays that all defenders make? Because if you do - you are wrong. Even Letang knows he's struggling to find his game.

Like I always say the highest ceiling and lowest floor top defenders are Burns/Letang. They can be so dominant and at the same time they can be absolute hot messes. That's fine. It's the yin/yang of those two. One could argue a more steady as she goes top defender is better for obvious reasons, but then you lose that insane elite top end period of time when those 2 take over games.

But let's get back to this season. Do you honestly believe he's just making a couple mistakes here and there? I mean... come on. Like Jaded said - if you can't see it, you are blind or choosing to be blind. Or you just aren't watching. (Not pointing you out specifically here. You = to all those arguing Letang is fine).

 

[ColePens]

Interesting. I should note that I was TAUGHT to double space after periods. Don't blame me, blame my educators many moons ago. (please note that I continued to utilize the double space, not out of spite, out of habit.)

That's actually sort of funny. In papers they do teach that same thing in today's schooling, too. EVERYTHING WE WERE TAUGHT IS A LIE!

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I like trying Sheahan on LW since he's useless at 3C and replacing him with Jake, who's looked good at center in brief stints and it may help jump start his game. But I don't see these lines as any permanent solution. Also, I doubt they're bringing Sprong over for quite awhile...and where is Hags? On the bench? Again, don't see that happening long term unless he's traded. But...
S-C-H
S-M-Kessel/Rust
Hags-Guentzel-Kessel/Rust

Would be worth looking at....

You cannot tell me with a straight face that Sheahan has been worse than Regular Season Bonino. Bones was somewhere between ok to straight up garbage during the 2 regular seasons he was on the Pens. He single handedly killed HBK last year, most of us saw that HBK was dead quite early and it wasn't until around Dec that Sully had had enough to stop the nonsense.

Sheahan isn't the problem. We don't have the luxury of acquiring a guy like Duchesne to go 3 lines deep. Sheahan is more than adequate to replace what Bones did (which wasn't much in the regular season).

 

[Ogrezilla]

Interesting. I should note that I was TAUGHT to double space after periods. Don't blame me, blame my educators many moons ago. (please note that I continued to utilize the double space, not out of spite, out of habit.)

Me too. I was taught the same and now I'm just so used to it

 

[Coastal Kev]

I like trying Sheahan on LW since he's useless at 3C and replacing him with Jake, who's looked good at center in brief stints and it may help jump start his game. But I don't see these lines as any permanent solution. Also, I doubt they're bringing Sprong over for quite awhile...and where is Hags? On the bench? Again, don't see that happening long term unless he's traded. But...
S-C-H
S-M-Kessel/Rust
Hags-Guentzel-Kessel/Rust

Would be worth looking at....

I like your way of thinking outside of the box. I have thought about Jake at 3C, it really could be the answer to everything. You then move Sheahan down to 4C and SPRONG might get SPRUNG.

What the hell??? Make this happen!

 

[Ogrezilla]

So let's talk about this year/last night. Do you feel this year and last night Letang just is making some casual usual bad plays that all defenders make? Because if you do - you are wrong. Even Letang knows he's struggling to find his game.

Like I always say the highest ceiling and lowest floor top defenders are Burns/Letang. They can be so dominant and at the same time they can be absolute hot messes. That's fine. It's the yin/yang of those two. One could argue a more steady as she goes top defender is better for obvious reasons, but then you lose that insane elite top end period of time when those 2 take over games.

But let's get back to this season. Do you honestly believe he's just making a couple mistakes here and there? I mean... come on. Like Jaded said - if you can't see it, you are blind or choosing to be blind. Or you just aren't watching. (Not pointing you out specifically here. You = to all those arguing Letang is fine).

I said he's making considerably more mistakes this year in the post you quoted.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

I thought Cullen was the better of the two bottom centres last year quite easily.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I hope Letang's struggles are a product of him trying to play a more reserved, controlled and safe game like Sully & Co. discussed with him this summer. That'd mean he could work through it to find a middle ground where he will be able to find an elite level again but without the reckless abandon that sees him get injured and sidelined for 25 or so games a season.

If it's not a mental thing and it's a product of his surgery or body wearing down, then it's trouble. Not only is he not going to be anywhere near as effective a player as we've seen at his best, he's going to be a pretty dramatically cheaper asset should we chose to move on.

 

[billybudd]

Truth about Sheahan is somewhere in the middle of these two extremes. People savaging him are out on a limb, but the people who want to compare him with Bonino are also out on a limb.

What I will say about him is that, while I wouldn't say he's playing bad, I would say that he's playing like a guy who doesn't have an identity. It's not enough to just skate a shift and not do anything wrong on it. You need to have something that's your thing on top of that. Something that differentiates you from generic player X.

I don't know what that would be with Sheahan, but he needs to work on finding it if he doesn't want to lose a game of musical chairs down the road.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I hope Letang's struggles are a product of him trying to play a more reserved, controlled and safe game like Sully & Co. discussed with him this summer. That'd mean he could work through it to find a middle ground where he will be able to find an elite level again but without the reckless abandon that sees him get injured and sidelined for 25 or so games a season.

If it's not a mental thing and it's a product of his surgery or body wearing down, then it's trouble. Not only is he not going to be anywhere near as effective a player as we've seen at his best, he's going to be a pretty dramatically cheaper asset should we chose to move on.

I think it's mental and not physical, but I'm not sure I'd attribute it to him altering his playing style. At this point I think the process of him coming back is dovetailing with his confidence being shot. It was always going to be a somewhat drawn out process of him getting back up to speed imo. The confidence problem looks bad enough that's it's surprising.

 

[ColePens]

I said he's making considerably more mistakes this year in the post you quoted.

So I guess I question the pixies of the world who are questioning those who are discussing Letang's woes this season. It makes no sense to me. Why is he off limits to discuss?

 

[Andy99]

I thought Cullen was the better of the two bottom centres last year quite easily.

If we truly want to be honest about who we're missing, it's this guy beyond all others, his play and his leadership

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I thought Cullen was the better of the two bottom centres last year quite easily.

Yeah, I think anyone focusing too much on the "we miss Bonino, damn that Sheahan" thing is overlooking the actual loss that hasn't been close to being replaced, and that's Cullen at 4C.

Cullen's performance essentially turned that 4th line into a second 3rd line.

The drop from Bonino to Sheahan isn't anywhere close to the drop from McKegg/Rowney to Cullen. Not even close.