Post-Game Talk: Penguins 3 @ Canucks 2 || It's isn't Fehr that we can't win games that Maatta.

[VanillaCoke]

Haha what a waste of time to type so many words to say you don't like Higgins, and be so wrong doing it.

Pretty much my thoughts as well.
Hitched his wagon to the I hate hate Higgins narrative and is unwilling to see anything else.

 

[Regal]

Is it one game? I'd say it's one game in terms of obvious poor effort but I'm not sure we're taking a completely honest look at the situation.

As I posted in another thread earlier today...the team has now lost more games than it has won. They lead the league in OT/SO loss points and along with a poor Pacific division that has been what has them afloat right now.

They have had issues holding a lead.

The blueline is a mess.

After his lightning hot start Miller is 2-3-3 in his last 8 starts with a 2.61 GAA and 0.907 SV%....he's come back down to earth.

There are a lot of things I think they need to improve on or we are really going to start seeing the losses start to pile up faster than the wins.

I think the OT losses are actually a good sign. In general, 3 on 3 is basically a crap shoot, and the puck just hasn't gone this team's way yet. That'll likely change. And while it would be worrisome if they were taking 1-1 games into OT where they were being outplayed the majority of the game, only to score a tying one late, the fact that they've frequently played with the lead is a good sign. The 3rd period collapses are troubling, but is something that can more easily be fixed, and like OT, should balance out more over the season. As for Miller, save percentage isn't actually a sign of quality of play over small sample sizes. I don't think he's really playing any worse, just a few more pucks are going in. He's still generally been giving the team a chance to win every night. Until this game, I would say the team was actually unlucky in its record.

 

[coldsteel79]

Oh I get it now.

Because Higgins is a streaky scorer and doesn't skate like Hansen or rattle the boards like Dorsett means he isn't trying. He's a dependable 2nd/3rd liner with streaky scoring and has been for years. He gets the benefit of the doubt.

The fact that you aren't willing to give him any leeway in his first game coming back from a foot injury says a lot.

Like willie said he needs a couple games to get up to speed, the sooner he gets those games the better.

 

[Pip]

Like willie said he needs a couple games to get up to speed, the sooner he gets those games the better.

Agreed.

 

[Huggy]

Higgins has kept our top6 anaemic for 5 years.

Hes done. And uselss

 

[orcatown]

Pretty much my thoughts as well.
Hitched his wagon to the I hate hate Higgins narrative and is unwilling to see anything else.

Why don't you response with opinion? Something?

I'm not tied to any wagon. If Higgins had given an effort I would have said so. Trying to say I'm a hater is juvenile. It's the place people go to when they can't response in any considered way.

If you want to defend Higgins, defend him by using ideas. Don't try to duck out and say something about the person giving opposite views by saying something about their mental make-up.

And talk about the pot calling the kettle black, you've spewed out so much continuous hateful criticism of Sbisa then get upset when someone say someone else is not playing well? Talk about hypocrisy.

 

[HiggsBroson]

Garbage. Absolute ****ing garbage.

Players like Higgins who have given their all night in and night out for years deserve the benefit of the doubt. He doesn't deserve for his effort level to get judged by you to the point of calling him pathetic. In fact, it was pretty pathetic of you to do so.

Foot injuries are very tough to come back from if you didn't know as it really limits your training. Also, some guys come back from injuries better than others. Doesn't mean that they care more, it's just the nature of the injury or their body."



Garbage. He's given it all, night in night out?? What planet are you living on. Do you even watch the playoffs???? I've rarely seen a softer effort in the playoffs.

Each year Higgins has stretch where he will make a few important plays (like a shoot out goal or get a late goal) but then goes into dormant periods of no offense and does little beyond get up and down his wing. Last year in the playoffs he was clearly AWOL and allowed Calgary to bounce him and his team mates around with zero response. I challenge you to go back and look at the playoffs and then come back and say he is giving it hard every night or that he somehow a comparable to Burrows or Hansen. He is no where near as good and never sticks his nose into any situation he doesn't have. Instead, he backs out and stays on the fringes. If you have any video of Higgins playing it tough I'd like to see it

I think this idea that Higgins is giving it up every night comes from the fact that he plays all the time. This somehow imparts the idea that he is this steady, hard working player that can somehow be moved up and down the line-up. But he isn't. He often can't be relied upon for a full effort since he has no physicality and he runs out of gas and disappears. And that is especially so when the going gets tough. Maybe people don't want to recognize that but the evidence to date is overwhelming that this true.

Moreover, it's a myth that somehow Higgins can move up and down the line up and can be used like in your top 6 or bottom 6 is the real myth. Higgins is a third line guy who has the skating and moxie to get by as a passable third liner most of the time. When he goes into one of his dead periods he becomes PB material. He brings very little grit and when you reach the hard sledding of the playoffs he's been a no-show.

Last night he was pathetic. If you don't like the word then find your own. Un-involved. Disinterested. Useless. Weak. But any honest assessment of his play would have to include such words.

Does he have an excuse. To an extent. But lots of those guys are playing hurt and they still give a go. They don't use the game as training session. They drop their heads down and get back on the back check. They get their bodies in a position to take a hit along the boards to get the puck out or keep it in. Dorsett seems clearly hurt and isn't playing well but he still fighting for every inch. I would challenge you to see any of this in Higgins play. Instead with Higgins I saw a very casual and un-sustained effort. In addition, you would have thought that he could have at least worked on his arm strength during his time off and not be so immediately dispossessed of the puck.

If this was the first time Higgins had played like this then you could just dismiss it. But it is far from that. He's is coming off a very weak playoff performance that was almost universally declared as such. You would have thought he would have made every attempt to put that behind him and show the determination to be a player rather than drift through the game. He could a fought for the puck. He could have tried to get to the net(rather than pivoting off to the corners). He could have got down in his end and fought to get the puck out. I saw none of this.

Lastly the idea that he should be given the benefit of the doubt is laughable. Why? What's he done lately that has shown much? Last year he was poor for long periods and only had few stretches where he was much good. And again he is coming of terrible playoff performance. Why so much so slack for Higgins? You thinking he has been this hard working, gritty night in night out player is trash. Only a person predisposed toward Higgins could see that as true. In reality, he is coming off a poor season, a miserable playoffs and last night was just an extension of this. You can sugar coat it any way you want but Higgins was bad.

I am using this word for word in Chris' Christmas card this year.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Higgins is a great role player and gives it everything he's got, regardless of his point totals.
Your criticism of his play after returning from a tough injury was harsh and unwarranted.
Your bias against him is blatantly obvious.

Sbisa sucks and has never been good, but he'll still get a few games of latitude when he comes back too.

 

[Addison Rae]

Chris Higgins has annually worked harder than any player on this team, Linden hits the nail on the head when he says just because someone doesn't rattle boards or skate miles doesn't meant they're not trying, Higgins is an excellent board player that churns out excellent middle 6 results. People are grossly infatuated with "playing the kids" not saying I'm not either, but there has to be some limits, no? Some of you were legitimately asking why they weren't playing over the Sedins in the last minute of the game which is utter ****, some of you are asking the Sedins to retire just to see them play more, **** off with that ****. Higgins has proven to be a much better player than Virtanen, I'm all for Virtanen playing more minutes over guys like Prust, Cracknell and Dorsett but they shouldn't be playing over very good middle 6 wingers like Burrows, Hansen and Higgins.

 

[CherryToke]

I'm not a fan of Higgins. maybe on the 4th line but I don't want him in the top 9. Offense dies on his stick and his legs are starting to go. waste of a roster spot that could be used for another kid.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Prove that this management team thinks this team will "make the playoffs" ie. Show me a quote , or please retract this lie.

I recall Linden pretty much saying this on a preseason clip on the Team1040 in that he was outraged at any talk about "rebuilding."

but then again very few hockey teams come out and actually provide that kind of locker room material, it's all coded in the "we expect a good effort every night......."

 

[tantalum]

I think the OT losses are actually a good sign. In general, 3 on 3 is basically a crap shoot, and the puck just hasn't gone this team's way yet. That'll likely change. And while it would be worrisome if they were taking 1-1 games into OT where they were being outplayed the majority of the game, only to score a tying one late, the fact that they've frequently played with the lead is a good sign. The 3rd period collapses are troubling, but is something that can more easily be fixed, and like OT, should balance out more over the season. As for Miller, save percentage isn't actually a sign of quality of play over small sample sizes. I don't think he's really playing any worse, just a few more pucks are going in. He's still generally been giving the team a chance to win every night. Until this game, I would say the team was actually unlucky in its record.

A good sign that they are giving up leads and going to OT and losing? (I believe 3 of those OT losses they gave up third period leads).

If you want to interpret it that way I guess you can. I call that a bad sign and shows the team is unable to handle things when the opposition turns up the heat.

And Miller is playing worse. He hasn't been flames goaltender horrible or anything but he settled back into the general run of the mill starter and his numbers over his last 8 are similar to where you'd expect them to be. Not letting in terrible goals but the number of big saves are coming down in a big way. The numbers of the last 8 continue and this team will fall in the standings pretty rapidly.

 

[tantalum]

I recall Linden pretty much saying this on a preseason clip on the Team1040 in that he was outraged at any talk about "rebuilding."

but then again very few hockey teams come out and actually provide that kind of locker room material, it's all coded in the "we expect a good effort every night......."

Oh management has been extremely clear that they feel they improved this team over last years team and the goal is to be a playoff team. How could it not given they improved the team?

It doesn't require hunting down quotes or interviews but here is what Linden said before the season

“There are a few things we wanted to do last year. We wanted to get younger. We wanted to be fun to watch again. We wanted to integrate young players, and we wanted to make the playoffs. Those things will be how we measure success again.”

So ya making the playoffs is very much part of the plan and the management and coaching staff should be evaluated with that in mind.

 

[Regal]

A good sign that they are giving up leads and going to OT and losing? (I believe 3 of those OT losses they gave up third period leads).

If you want to interpret it that way I guess you can. I call that a bad sign and shows the team is unable to handle things when the opposition turns up the heat.

And Miller is playing worse. He hasn't been flames goaltender horrible or anything but he settled back into the general run of the mill starter and his numbers over his last 8 are similar to where you'd expect them to be. Not letting in terrible goals but the number of big saves are coming down in a big way. The numbers of the last 8 continue and this team will fall in the standings pretty rapidly.

The point is you're interpreting the OT losses as something that's propping the record up and will fall once those games don't end up in loser points. I would agree if the team was barely squeaking by in order to get to OT. But the way those games went, they could have easily been wins, and I think the luck will actually balance out in the team's favour if they keep playing like they have. I said the third period collapses are a bad sign, but getting multiple goal leads in the first place is a good sign. Bad teams don't tend to get those leads regularly, and it's easier to learn to hold on in the third than to score in the first place.

 

[Oliewud]

we HAVE to make the playoffs. it will be huge for mcann, virtanen, hutton and horvats development.

 

[tantalum]

The point is you're interpreting the OT losses as something that's propping the record up and will fall once those games don't end up in loser points. I would agree if the team was barely squeaking by in order to get to OT. But the way those games went, they could have easily been wins, and I think the luck will actually balance out in the team's favour if they keep playing like they have. I said the third period collapses are a bad sign, but getting multiple goal leads in the first place is a good sign. Bad teams don't tend to get those leads regularly, and it's easier to learn to hold on in the third than to score in the first place.

The problem is that I believe someone has posted that the team is essentially bottom third of the league when it comes to possession when games are close. That's the type of thing that leads to issues and likely already has. Overall with a brief perusal, the canucks have been a pretty weak possession team thus far.

I think it's a little early to point completely to such stats just as it is too early to point to things like scoring first etc.

I will say, the problems that many pointed out as issues may be starting to show themselves to be issues. The lack of blueline depth, needing top flight goaltending to get points (hasn't been top flight of late and points are being lost), coaching issues etc.

 

[Peen]

we HAVE to make the playoffs. it will be huge for mcann, virtanen, hutton and horvats development.

I remember stating earlier how I'm okay with missing the playoffs if we have those guys contributing and being put in key roles.

 

[orcatown]

Higgins is a great role player and gives it everything he's got, regardless of his point totals.
Your criticism of his play after returning from a tough injury was harsh and unwarranted.
Your bias against him is blatantly obvious.

Sbisa sucks and has never been good, but he'll still get a few games of latitude when he comes back too.

How is my bias against Higgins obvious. I am commenting on his play. If he plays well I will say so. Go back through last year and you will see I was positive when warranted. But overall he was just doing nothing for long periods and that was commented on. And in the playoffs he didn't show up. He was very weak and has been when play has got tougher and this has been the case in previous playoffs.

If you think my dislike of his play for major periods of last year and last night is motivated by hate you need to back it up. Where is this shown in past posts. Where is this shown in any kind of continuous way. If you throw out opinions like this you need to substantiate it.

My view on Higgins is that he now a passable third liner but a player that will lead you no where when during the harder times of the playoffs. I think he has some skill but is extremely soft. At best Higgins is mediocre. On his own, he will take you no where. Problem is the Canucks have lacked the depth so Higgins has had to play above his compete level.

And can't you see the total contradiction in how you can throw out the word hater and then repeatedly lay hate on Sbisa. You have a huge history of this. And that can be easily substantiated and I will do this if you wish. If you think it wrong to be a hater then look in the mirror.

 

[KeninsFan]

I am using this word for word in Chris' Christmas card this year.

I'm not a fan of Higgins. maybe on the 4th line but I don't want him in the top 9. Offense dies on his stick and his legs are starting to go. waste of a roster spot that could be used for another kid.

I'm not a Higgins fan and I feel he should've been traded sometime during the Gillis era but it's really not his fault he's playing in a role above his skillset.

This year Higgins belongs on the 4th line (and he'll be miles better than Dorsett/Cracknell/Prust at it). Unfortunately Benning spent a 2nd on Bae who's looking closer to a 13th F than to a 2LW so we're back to Higgins as the 2LW and we're back to bashing him for it. It's time to put the blame on the GM.

 

[mathonwy]

Garbage. He's given it all, night in night out?? What planet are you living on. Do you even watch the playoffs???? I've rarely seen a softer effort in the playoffs.

Hey bud.

A little history lesson for you.

Since Chris Higgins joined the team in 2011 (just in time for the cup run), Chris Higgins has been one of the best forwards on this team.

Chris has been an integral part of this team for the last 5 years and many of us long time Canuck fans really appreciate his service. The guy always gives a honest effort and does it in the most unassuming fashion.

Chris is coming back from a fractured foot injury and based on last night's performance, it's very obvious that it's negatively affected his speed. He could barely keep up with the play and the Pens were skating circles around him. However, Chris's stellar play for the Canucks has earned him a pass. How long this pass will ultimately depend on our win record I think. Management seems very impatient these days and I have a feeling that the most they'll give him will be 5 games.

I personally would think about giving him 10 games because that's an accepted benchmark in hockey to evaluate a player but I can't overlook Baerstchi not playing. Bae not playing doesn't do anyone any good.

So that's what the reality is.

Calling him pathetic, garbage, etc... that's just whiny kid stuff.

 

[opendoor]

Why don't you response with opinion? Something?

I'm not tied to any wagon. If Higgins had given an effort I would have said so. Trying to say I'm a hater is juvenile. It's the place people go to when they can't response in any considered way.

If you want to defend Higgins, defend him by using ideas. Don't try to duck out and say something about the person giving opposite views by saying something about their mental make-up.

And talk about the pot calling the kettle black, you've spewed out so much continuous hateful criticism of Sbisa then get upset when someone say someone else is not playing well? Talk about hypocrisy.

Higgins has a long track record of getting good results for what he's paid. Among regular Canuck forwards over the last 4 years he is behind only the Sedins in ES production. He's also competent defensively. He's not someone who's going to be in a great team's top 6, but he's a dependable middle 6 forward. That's why he's going to get leeway regarding his first 10 minutes of ice time after coming off a foot injury from most people.

Tying Higgins into a guy like Sbisa doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Sbisa gets flak because he almost always plays poorly and has produced absolutely terrible results over a 5+ year sample. And even with that, I'd be willing to bet most people will give Sbisa more latitude in his first 10 minutes coming off his injury than you've given Higgins.

 

[Regal]

The problem is that I believe someone has posted that the team is essentially bottom third of the league when it comes to possession when games are close. That's the type of thing that leads to issues and likely already has. Overall with a brief perusal, the canucks have been a pretty weak possession team thus far.

I think it's a little early to point completely to such stats just as it is too early to point to things like scoring first etc.

I will say, the problems that many pointed out as issues may be starting to show themselves to be issues. The lack of blueline depth, needing top flight goaltending to get points (hasn't been top flight of late and points are being lost), coaching issues etc.

I think they're actually top 10 when the score is close and only bottom ten because they've had the lead so much.

There are certainly issues with the team. As you said, the defensive depth is an issue, and Willie not line matching or playing the kids in the third is a problem, but I don't think so far it's been a case where everything's gone right and they will only fall off. The depth scoring probably won't continue at this level, but the first line should also pick it up more. The penalty kill should continue to be good. Miller might not steal many points but he looks like he won't be actively giving them away this year like several games last year. They've looked very good in spurts and outside of last game have generally looked like either the better or roughly equal team in each game. I'm not saying the team is great by any means, I just don't agree with the fact that the record is pumped up by OT losses, as the team could easily have a few more wins.

 

[KeninsFan]

Hey bud.

A little history lesson for you.

Since Chris Higgins joined the team in 2011 (just in time for the cup run), Chris Higgins has been one of the best forwards on this team.

Calling him pathetic, garbage, etc... that's just whiny kid stuff.

That is absolutely false. Chris Higgins has been a complete no show in the playoffs.

In the last 3 playoff series' this is his stat line: 15 GP - 1G+1A, 2 points. That's an 11 point pace over 82 games.

During the Cup run he wasn't much better. 25 Games, 4G+4A but to be fair he sacrificed his body numerous times and as a result was banged up.

 

[mathonwy]

That is absolutely false. Chris Higgins has been a complete no show in the playoffs.

In the last 3 playoff series' this is his stat line: 15 GP - 1G+1A, 2 points. That's an 11 point pace over 82 games.

During the Cup run he wasn't much better. 25 Games, 4G+4A but to be fair he sacrificed his body numerous times and as a result was banged up.

Best forwards? Hardworking forwards? Unsung hero forwards?

Dude... semantics. Stop trying to pick a fight.

 

[orcatown]

That is absolutely false. Chris Higgins has been a complete no show in the playoffs.

In the last 3 playoff series' this is his stat line: 15 GP - 1G+1A, 2 points. That's an 11 point pace over 82 games.

During the Cup run he wasn't much better. 25 Games, 4G+4A but to be fair he sacrificed his body numerous times and as a result was banged up.

Don't confuse him with actual history and facts