Post-Game Talk: Penguins 3 @ Canucks 2 || It's isn't Fehr that we can't win games that Maatta.

[HiggsBroson]

How is my bias against Higgins obvious. I am commenting on his play. If he plays well I will say so. Go back through last year and you will see I was positive when warranted. But overall he was just doing nothing for long periods and that was commented on. And in the playoffs he didn't show up. He was very weak and has been when play has got tougher and this has been the case in previous playoffs.

If you think my dislike of his play for major periods of last year and last night is motivated by hate you need to back it up. Where is this shown in past posts. Where is this shown in any kind of continuous way. If you throw out opinions like this you need to substantiate it.

My view on Higgins is that he now a passable third liner but a player that will lead you no where when during the harder times of the playoffs. I think he has some skill but is extremely soft. At best Higgins is mediocre. On his own, he will take you no where. Problem is the Canucks have lacked the depth so Higgins has had to play above his compete level.

And can't you see the total contradiction in how you can throw out the word hater and then repeatedly lay hate on Sbisa. You have a huge history of this. And that can be easily substantiated and I will do this if you wish. If you think it wrong to be a hater then look in the mirror.

Id like to know, in your opinion, how many 3rd line players lead the team in the playoffs? Surely they contribute but what do you mean lead? If you're counting on chris to lead offensively the team would never make the playoffs to begin with. Hes been hovering around .5 PPG in his career and less than that in the playoffs his entire career. He's streaky on the score sheet. Always has been always will be. Deal with it. It happens to everyone. Crosby has 6 points this year, for example, in about 11-12 games. Chris has played 9 mins this season.
If you say you praise him at points last year, meaning you watch him play, then describing him as soft is as horrible of a description of his game that there possibly can be.
You say he's been playing above his compete level and isn't top 6 material. You lay blame on the management for that, not the player. Their lack of true offensive depth until this year forced his hand and led to unattainable offensive expectations.
Obviously I like the guy more than others. When he plays like **** I tell him. When he plays well I do the same.
But if you're going to criticize at least have your facts somewhat straight.
Let's hope and pray he gets staph for the 3rd year in a row and be done with this soft player with questionable hygiene but has a extremely charming and handsome younger brother.

 

[mathonwy]

Don't confuse him with actual history and facts

THAT'S your response?

A petulant dig on my unwillingness to get dragged into a statistical analysis of Chris Higgin's playoff performance?

lol.

Don't be a hater.

 

[orcatown]

Higgins has a long track record of getting good results for what he's paid. Among regular Canuck forwards over the last 4 years he is behind only the Sedins in ES production. He's also competent defensively. He's not someone who's going to be in a great team's top 6, but he's a dependable middle 6 forward. That's why he's going to get leeway regarding his first 10 minutes of ice time after coming off a foot injury from most people.

Tying Higgins into a guy like Sbisa doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Sbisa gets flak because he almost always plays poorly and has produced absolutely terrible results over a 5+ year sample. And even with that, I'd be willing to bet most people will give Sbisa more latitude in his first 10 minutes coming off his injury than you've given Higgins.

Whose tying him Higgins to Sbisa??? Read the post.

Clearly I'm talking about how this in terms of how you can lay hate on some player like Sbisa and then call others hater. Total mis-read or deliberate misinterpretation.

If are talking about whether Higgins earns his salary you can maybe make a case for the regular season but hardly for the playoffs which is a far better barometer.

 

[Win One Before I Die]

Lol this Chris Higgins argument.

Chris Higgins was a good player for us, the first 2 and a half seasons we had him. His age is showing and his offensive game is gone.

 

[ahmon]

Id like to know, in your opinion, how many 3rd line players lead the team in the playoffs? Surely they contribute but what do you mean lead? If you're counting on chris to lead offensively the team would never make the playoffs to begin with. Hes been hovering around .5 PPG in his career and less than that in the playoffs his entire career. He's streaky on the score sheet. Always has been always will be. Deal with it. It happens to everyone. Crosby has 6 points this year, for example, in about 11-12 games. Chris has played 9 mins this season.

That's the problem, he disappears in the playoffs.

If you are not producing in the playoffs, you need to bring other elements to the table.

Higgins' game has become more and more on the perimeter. He has no edge to his game, almost non-existent physicality. When was the last time you see Higgins go to the net hard?

A player with decent skill but can't produce like a top 6 is a tweener. And he's trending into a soft tweener.

Does pointing out his role mean I'm a hater? I believe Hansen should not be on the top 6 too, am I a hater?

I guess I must hate Bartkowski/Sbisa/Weber If I say I don't believe they should be on a team looking to do damage in the playoffs?

 

[coldsteel79]

Id like to know, in your opinion, how many 3rd line players lead the team in the playoffs? Surely they contribute but what do you mean lead? If you're counting on chris to lead offensively the team would never make the playoffs to begin with. Hes been hovering around .5 PPG in his career and less than that in the playoffs his entire career. He's streaky on the score sheet. Always has been always will be. Deal with it. It happens to everyone. Crosby has 6 points this year, for example, in about 11-12 games. Chris has played 9 mins this season.
If you say you praise him at points last year, meaning you watch him play, then describing him as soft is as horrible of a description of his game that there possibly can be.
You say he's been playing above his compete level and isn't top 6 material. You lay blame on the management for that, not the player. Their lack of true offensive depth until this year forced his hand and led to unattainable offensive expectations.
Obviously I like the guy more than others. When he plays like **** I tell him. When he plays well I do the same.
But if you're going to criticize at least have your facts somewhat straight.
Let's hope and pray he gets staph for the 3rd year in a row and be done with this soft player with questionable hygiene but has a extremely charming and handsome younger brother.

Tell your bro to get his act together staph infections are Super dangerous!!

 

[VanillaCoke]

Whose tying him Higgins to Sbisa??? Read the post.

Clearly I'm talking about how this in terms of how you can lay hate on some player like Sbisa and then call others hater. Total mis-read or deliberate misinterpretation.

If are talking about whether Higgins earns his salary you can maybe make a case for the regular season but hardly for the playoffs which is a far better barometer.

You brought up sbisa for **** sakes.
Sbisa gets hate because he sucks and has always sucked. Higgins hasnt and doesnt, even though hes not quite what he was. Still easily worth 2.5.

So basically your argument is ignore his 500+ nhl regular season games, and only focus on playoffs the last few seasons, where nearly the whole team has been pretty poor.

Your whole stance doesnt hold water, and is unsubstantiated. But by all means cling to it like the hull of the titanic.

 

[coldsteel79]

Higgins once he gets his legs back is an incredible depth piece, hopefully they start rotating guys in and out to keep guys fresh throughout the year

 

[tantalum]

I think they're actually top 10 when the score is close and only bottom ten because they've had the lead so much.

Just looking at Corsi Close they are 22nd in the league at 48.3%. And really none of the various Corsi stats are all that flattering for them. Not the only measure I realize but I also don't want to put too much stock in them as I mentioned because it is still a pretty small sample size.

I'm not saying the team is great by any means, I just don't agree with the fact that the record is pumped up by OT losses, as the team could easily have a few more wins.

I could just as easily argue that they could have a few more losses or were fortunate to catch a couple of teams before those teams took off (LA for example). Again small sample size but I've seen very little to suggest they are an improved team which was the goal of the offseason.

 

[DFAC]

Just looking at Corsi Close they are 22nd in the league at 48.3%. And really none of the various Corsi stats are all that flattering for them. Not the only measure I realize but I also don't want to put too much stock in them as I mentioned because it is still a pretty small sample size.



I could just as easily argue that they could have a few more losses or were fortunate to catch a couple of teams before those teams took off (LA for example). Again small sample size but I've seen very little to suggest they are an improved team which was the goal of the offseason.

I thought the goal was to get younger/faster....?

 

[Pip]

Whose tying him Higgins to Sbisa??? Read the post.

You did.

 

[I am toxic]

That's the problem, he disappears in the playoffs.

If you are not producing in the playoffs, you need to bring other elements to the table.

Higgins' game has become more and more on the perimeter. He has no edge to his game, almost non-existent physicality. When was the last time you see Higgins go to the net hard?

A player with decent skill but can't produce like a top 6 is a tweener. And he's trending into a soft tweener.

Does pointing out his role mean I'm a hater? I believe Hansen should not be on the top 6 too, am I a hater?

I guess I must hate Bartkowski/Sbisa/Weber If I say I don't believe they should be on a team looking to do damage in the playoffs?

April 17, 2015?

 

[quat]

If a player makes a retooling team more boring to watch that has to be a concern to fans, management and especially ownership.

It's one of the things I appreciated about Burke as GM. He came right out and said that style of play as product matters and that he wanted games to be interesting to follow for the fans. Somehow I just don't believe Linden when he says it.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Again small sample size but I've seen very little to suggest they are an improved team which was the goal of the offseason.

The Canucks are top 10 in offense, 6th in goals against and have played with the lead a TON. They have yet to no-show for a game, the low points of the season have been 3 1 goal losses to terrific clubs and they're getting contributions all over the line up - and winning while the Sedins have gotten off to a pretty slow start.

I thought the goal was to get younger/faster....?

Yup, the goal was to get younger, faster, play a more exciting, up-tempo game and compete for the playoffs. Here we sit 1 month in and management has hit all these goals thus far. They've incorporated more rookies than we've seen in 20 years, the team is head and shoulders faster than last season, has played a more exciting brand of hockey and at this point sits in a playoff spot with the best goal differential in the Western conference.

This team has exceeded the fans expectations, while living up to the expectations of management. And it's no surprise the buzz around Vancouver is so positive right now.

 

[orcatown]

You brought up sbisa for **** sakes.
Sbisa gets hate because he sucks and has always sucked. Higgins hasnt and doesnt, even though hes not quite what he was. Still easily worth 2.5.

So basically your argument is ignore his 500+ nhl regular season games, and only focus on playoffs the last few seasons, where nearly the whole team has been pretty poor.

Your whole stance doesnt hold water, and is unsubstantiated. But by all means cling to it like the hull of the titanic.

I made no comparison b/w Sbisa and Higgins in terms of play or salaries. None. What I compared was how you said I was hater while you show tons of hate toward Sbisa. This was not a player comparison but an illustration of your hypocrisy in talking about hating players. Can you understand that?

Just to explain this to you - you are saying I have some irrational hate towards Higgins which shapes my opinion towards Higgins. Right?

What I'm saying is that you've showed tremendous hate toward Sbisa. You say well it's all justified to hate Sbisa. But it isn't. Hate is hate and your comments about Sbisa are always dripping with it. Couldn't it be said that your hate for Sbisa shapes your opinion towards him. That you are indeed irrational on the Sbisa topic.

If you truly want a rational discussion about players then make it so across the board. Don't say it's ok for me to hate on some player but then go call others haters when they have a different opinion than yours. Be consistent.

And I don't hate Higgins. But I see year after year a lack of compete when it counts. I thought last night as Higgins was not or could not give it a full effort. I thought that in previous playoffs as well. My conclusion is that he can't really compete when competition stiffens. He backs down and becomes a non-factor. That's what I've seen.

Last night I saw it again and he looked IMO like he was going through the motions of playing but not really doing so. Maybe that is wrong. Maybe he has been better in the playoffs than I've thought. But this opinion is based on what I've seen and what he has produced at critical times.

Ultimately to call someone a hater for having a different view than yours is childish. If want to point out where I am wrong then do so but don't go for dismissing a viewpoint because of some ad hominem attack about the other person being a "hater". And this is especially so when you indulge yourself so obviously in ridicule of Sbisa that goes well beyond judging his play.

 

[Pip]

The thing is, you see a lack of compete. It does not mean that there is a lack of compete. You associate compete with skating really fast and making hits which isn't Higgins' game. He is a good two-way player who provides good secondary scoring and happens to do this while not looking like Derek Dorsett. He still tries just as hard as they do.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

The thing is, you see a lack of compete. It does not mean that there is a lack of compete. You associate compete with skating really fast and making hits which isn't Higgins' game. He is a good two-way player who provides good secondary scoring and happens to do this while not looking like Derek Dorsett. He still tries just as hard as they do.

I would hope for more than 1 goal and 1 assist in 15 playoff games from a ''good secondary scorer''

 

[canuckking1]

10-11 Minutes is a good time for Both Virtanen and McCan to play

 

[HiggsBroson]

I would hope for more than 1 goal and 1 assist in 15 playoff games from a ''good secondary scorer''

In their great playoff games since 2011 who has been a playoff performer ?

 

[VanillaCoke]

You've again deviated and backed away from your original argument which shows how much validity it has, none.
Trying to compare and muddle the issue by bringing up totally unrelated players like fehr and Sbisa. yelling buzzwords like hate and hypocrisy to move goalposts.

Sbisa is irrelevant, fehr is irrelevant.

YOU called a player that has a hundreds of games history of great play and all out effort "pathetic" and "heartless". After his first game back from major injury.
Which is why ppl job mode on you because it's a ducking ridiculous statement. If you can't just admit you're in the wrong then so be it. I'm not going to lose sleep over your bias nonsense.

 

[Toxic0n]

I would hope for more than 1 goal and 1 assist in 15 playoff games from a ''good secondary scorer''

While that's not a great number, that's still better PPG than Dorsett and he makes less. I'd rather have a bottom 6 full of Higginses than Dorsetts. If you have players like Higgins and Hansen on your 4th line, you have a pretty stacked team.

Edit: I can't believe people are harping on Higgins after his 1st game coming back from injury.


Well, I can, but still...

 

[VanJack]

Higgins once he gets his legs back is an incredible depth piece, hopefully they start rotating guys in and out to keep guys fresh throughout the year

Hopefully he's a good enough 'depth piece' that the Canucks can dump him at the deadline for picks/prospects....has been trending downward for the past two years and could easily be replaced by Gaunce imo....and if his presence in the lineup is keeping Baertschi in the pressbox and potentially Shinkaruk out of the NHL, then that's a longer term negative.

 

[orcatown]

You've again deviated and backed away from your original argument which shows how much validity it has, none.
Trying to compare and muddle the issue by bringing up totally unrelated players like fehr and Sbisa. yelling buzzwords like hate and hypocrisy to move goalposts.

Sbisa is irrelevant, fehr is irrelevant.

YOU called a player that has a hundreds of games history of great play and all out effort "pathetic" and "heartless". After his first game back from major injury.


Which is why ppl job mode on you because it's a ducking ridiculous statement. If you can't just admit you're in the wrong then so be it. I'm not going to lose sleep over your bias nonsense.

Fehr just came back of injury so is a point of comparison.

Sbisa was only brought up to show how you spew out hate and then contemn others for, in your mind, doing the same.

You brought up the hater thing. Had you simply said to the original comments I disagree and here's why we got a discussion. But, per usual, you went low ball right away and attacked the person not the argument.

You don't like Higgins being put down in harsh terms then don't do it with Sbisa. Otherwise you are, as your words make you, a hypocrite.

 

[VanillaCoke]

If you cant see the difference then your lost.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

What's more boring that watching Higgins play? Arguing about Chris Higgins.