Salary Cap: Penguins 2014-15 roster building discussion III (Contract/free agent chart in Post 1)

[Ogrezilla]

He was the best?... I can show you 3-4 goals in 13 games that was solely his fault because he's a loose cannon and doesn't stay on his side of the net. So for his lack of defense what did he do on the offensive end? 4 points... Yeah, I'll pass. Give me a defensive d or a better winger for him.

show me the goals.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I think this team needs to move Letang. No choice in the matter. Not because I don't think he's a good player (when he's playing well), but because we can't be saddled with his contract and we need to make a big move to acquire long-term, top tier help up front. The only guys on the team capable of landing said help are Letang and Neal, and I'm down for moving both.

 

[mpp9]

I think this team needs to move Letang. No choice in the matter. Not because I don't think he's a good player (when he's playing well), but because we can't be saddled with his contract and we need to make a big move to acquire long-term, top tier help up front. The only guys on the team capable of landing said help are Letang and Neal, and I'm down for moving both.

I dont' think we need to move him. Swap Neal for a forward who fits what we're missing on Sid's line. Deal Sutter+D depth for another forward. Send Scuds to whatever team that'll take him. Shop MAF. And look at what's out there in free agency.

 

[Jacob]

I don't think we need to dump Letang for cap room as long as we start playing our young d-men. We could easily have 4-5 d-men on ELCs or deals under 1 million per, if we'd actually show some confidence and play them (and instill a system that supports them).

I also think it's redundant to trade Neal for a winger.

Our tradable assets are Fleury, one of Pouliot/Harrington/Despres/Dumoulin, Sutter, and the 1st round pick. Necessary salary dump would be Scuderi.

 

[mpp9]

I'd be very surprised if both Neal and Letang are here come fall. You have to make some changes. Sutter and losing the free agents isn't enough change IMO. Nor is it enough to bring in what we're missing at forward.

We don't have a quality bottom six. And we're missing two top six forwards. Kunitz is 35. Neal is the only quality piece we have that we can trade to any team aside from Letang until July 1.

But I'm of the opinion that you move Beau up with Geno. Find a complementary piece with them in free agency or move Kunitz down. And look to make a big trade to get Sid's longterm winger. The latter should be a major part of this offseason game plan. No more ****ing around and finding stopgap solutions.

 

[SEALBound]

Scuds for RJ Umberger with 30% retained
Sutter+Bennett+Pouliot for Kesler + Kassian
Neal for E.Kane
Sign Kulemin
Resign Niskanen, Vitale, Sill, Harry Z, Gibbons, Despres

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Evander Kane ($5.250m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Chris Kunitz ($3.850m)
Nikolai Kulemin ($3.250m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / R.J. Umberger ($3.220m—30.00%)
Zack Kassian ($1.200m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
Zach Sill ($0.550m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Harry Zolnierczyk ($0.550m)
Brian Gibbons ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kris Letang ($7.250m) / Paul Martin ($5.000m)
Matt Niskanen ($4.000m) / Olli Maatta ($0.894m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) / Simon Despres ($0.851m)
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Jeff Zatkoff ($0.600m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,114,667; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $985,333

 

[Jacob]

I'd be very surprised if both Neal and Letang are here come fall. You have to make some changes. Sutter and losing the free agents isn't enough change IMO. Nor is it enough to bring in what we're missing at forward.

We don't have a quality bottom six. And we're missing two top six forwards. Kunitz is 35. Neal is the only quality piece we have that we can trade to any team aside from Letang until July 1.

But I'm of the opinion that you move Beau up with Geno. Find a complementary piece with them in free agency or move Kunitz down. And look to make a big trade to get Sid's longterm winger. The latter should be a major part of this offseason game plan. No more ****ing around and finding stopgap solutions.

Then why trade Neal lol

 

[eXile59]

I'd be very surprised if both Neal and Letang are here come fall. You have to make some changes. Sutter and losing the free agents isn't enough change IMO. Nor is it enough to bring in what we're missing at forward.

We don't have a quality bottom six. And we're missing two top six forwards. Kunitz is 35. Neal is the only quality piece we have that we can trade to any team aside from Letang until July 1.

But I'm of the opinion that you move Beau up with Geno. Find a complementary piece with them in free agency or move Kunitz down. And look to make a big trade to get Sid's longterm winger. The latter should be a major part of this offseason game plan. No more ****ing around and finding stopgap solutions.

Yes you do but if you lose Letang & Neal you almost definitely become a worse team. You lose Letang who is second behind only Karlsson at bringing offense from the back end. You lose Neal who can score 40 goals a season from the wing which only a handful of other guys can do.

A winger for Sid and rebuild the bottom six. You can do that with out trading either of them.

Change for the sake of change is just stupid.

 

[mpp9]

Then why trade Neal lol

B/c there's a hole next to Sid. And a 35 year old on the other wing. He needs the most help. Beau has looked fine next to Geno every time they've been put together. And it's alot easier finding a quality 3rd wheel with those two in free agency than a legit game breaker that Sid could use.

You're using Neal to get Sid's longterm winger. If the market isn't there for him. Then look into Letang's value around the league. Or see if Sutter++ can get it done.

I'm keeping my options open. You seem to think we can hang onto Letang and Neal, and address Sid's winger situation as well as our bottom six woes.

Everyone should be on the table not named Sid and Geno.

 

[mpp9]

Yes you do but if you lose Letang & Neal you almost definitely become a worse team. You lose Letang who is second behind only Karlsson at bringing offense from the back end. You lose Neal who can score 40 goals a season from the wing which only a handful of other guys can do.

A winger for Sid and rebuild the bottom six. You can do that with out trading either of them.

Change for the sake of change is just stupid.

How are we getting Sid's winger without putting our most valuable assets on the table?

 

[Jacob]

B/c there's a hole next to Sid. And a 35 year old on the other wing. He needs the most help. Beau has looked fine next to Geno every time they've been put together. And it's alot easier finding a quality 3rd wheel with those two in free agency than a legit game breaker that Sid could use.

You're using Neal to get Sid's longterm winger. If the market isn't there for him. Then look into Letang's value around the league. Or see if Sutter++ can get it done.

I'm keeping my options open. You seem to think we can hang onto Letang and Neal, and address Sid's winger situation as well as our bottom six woes.

Everyone should be on the table not named Sid and Geno.

You're robbing Geno to pay Sid.

 

[Riptide]

I want Kule here. But he should not be blocking Bennett unless we make some serious changes to the forward group.

I'd argue Kunitz' spot shouldn't be safe if the way he played post-Olympics is the trend.

But agreed we could easily pick up Hemsky and another top 6 guy via trade.

Kulemin in the top 6 isn't blocking Bennett if he hasn't earned top 6 icetime. And when he does... move Kulemin to the 3rd line and promote Bennett.

 

[billybudd]

I think this team needs to move Letang. No choice in the matter. Not because I don't think he's a good player (when he's playing well), but because we can't be saddled with his contract and we need to make a big move to acquire long-term, top tier help up front. The only guys on the team capable of landing said help are Letang and Neal, and I'm down for moving both.

Rick Tocchet was on Madden the other day and said something that's been bugging me for a while. Physically, he said, in terms of skating and skill-set, there's no reason that Kris Letang isn't Drew Doughty. The reason he's not is because of what he does with that. In addition, he also noted that Letang was better 2 or 3 years ago than he is now (not just talking about this past season, but the one prior).

Expectation that some of what's on the roster would go from crap to diamonds after a coaching change is something a lot of people say, but I have a high degree of skepticism toward. But in Letang's case, I'm less sure. 27 year old D showing significant improvement, unlike forwards ftmp, IS a thing that can happen.

His cap allocation is a lot to pay the guy, but if he makes the same sort of modification that Niedermayer made at around the same age, giving up on him is something that could really, really burn us.

Not saying we need to keep him. Just saying there's a ton of risk with him, no matter what you do.

 

[mpp9]

You're robbing Geno to pay Sid.

Malkin does not need Neal. He went into beast mode without him. I see no reason why Beau can't play next to Geno next year. You may not have the regular season numbers. But you'll have a very dangerous line. And a net positive if Neal gets you Sid's winger, and Sid's line is as dangerous as ever.

Some feel Neal is a core part of this team. I don't. You dont' move him for the sake of change. But you do move him as part of one of a few moves to restructure the team and make it more difficult to play against.

 

[Sutter16]

How about a trade for Chris Stewart for Sid's RW? He's been mentioned a lot here before and with a new GM coming in, it's possible we pick him up.

 

[mpp9]

Kulemin in the top 6 isn't blocking Bennett if he hasn't earned top 6 icetime. And when he does... move Kulemin to the 3rd line and promote Bennett.

My point was we don't have the depth at forward to be having Bennett on the third line. We'd have to make quite a few moves. I hope it happens. But to assume it right now isn't realistic.

 

[Dupree13]

B/c there's a hole next to Sid. And a 35 year old on the other wing. He needs the most help. Beau has looked fine next to Geno every time they've been put together. And it's alot easier finding a quality 3rd wheel with those two in free agency than a legit game breaker that Sid could use.

You're using Neal to get Sid's longterm winger. If the market isn't there for him. Then look into Letang's value around the league. Or see if Sutter++ can get it done.

I'm keeping my options open. You seem to think we can hang onto Letang and Neal, and address Sid's winger situation as well as our bottom six woes.

Everyone should be on the table not named Sid and Geno.

How about playing Neal with Sid? Seems less complicated.

 

[eXile59]

How are we getting Sid's winger without putting our most valuable assets on the table?

We have other assets that teams want like Sutter and Pouliot and there are also guys available through free agency. I didn't say it was going to be easy but taking two steps backwards to take one forwards doesn't make sense.

 

[mpp9]

How about playing Neal with Sid? Seems less complicated.

Maybe a new coach will. I'd like a guy who's a bit meaner and will impact a playoff series when he's not producing.

 

[Riptide]

Come on now, the guy just had a stroke, and he can't stay healthy at all, why would a team give up valuable assets for that when the guy just signed a 7 year 58 million dollar deal, surely you have to be able to see that would be a gigantic risk for another team to take on that contract.

His stroke was a stroke in name only (the definition is roughly an interruption in the blood flow to the brain). Most are caused by clots/blockage/etc. His was caused by a birth defect when a hole in his heart wasn't sealed. They've repaired it, and the likely hood of it ever being an issue again is next to nil.

The rest of his issues (knee/concussion(s)) are a legit concern... but even then they likely wouldn't be a deal breaker to trading him. Not saying Pittsburgh would get full value for him... but they could still get pretty good value.

 

[Riptide]

I guess my point is that even if you aren't getting great players in return for a Letang trade, your still getting lots in return because your getting 7.25 million in cap space to rebuild your forwards.

Lets say the pens take that 7.25 million and sign Bolland and Kulemin, that would give them two thirds of a good gritty 3rd line, pens would then have Sutter and Neal if they want to trade to rebuild the top 6 wingers.

Not really. Signing Niskanen will eat at least 4-5m of that up. No GM in their right mind would go into a season with only 2 D (Martin/Scuderi) having played more than 100 NHL games.

 

[mpp9]

We have other assets that teams want like Sutter and Pouliot and there are also guys available through free agency. I didn't say it was going to be easy but taking two steps backwards to take one forwards doesn't make sense.

It isn't two steps backward. It's a step in a different direction. It changes the make up of our top six. Put guys with Geno who will get him the puck in scoring areas. And get Sid someone who can take the pressure off him by carrying the puck and being a physical presence.

We just fired the GM who's been here for 8 years. Brought Neal in. The coach is likely to follow. I bet significant changes are made to the roster, but we'll see.

 

[Riptide]

If we could get Umberger for Scuderi with Columbus retaining salary so it's equal, I would do that instantly. 1 cap dump that needs a change of scenery for another cap dump that needs a change if scenery, but the new player addresses a need for the team.

Why would Columbus eat salary on Umberger only to get Scuderi in return? Scuderi isn't worth 4.6m for 3 more seasons (what Umberger is making).

 

[66-30-33]

How about a trade for Chris Stewart for Sid's RW? He's been mentioned a lot here before and with a new GM coming in, it's possible we pick him up.

I think it's time Pens find players who know WILL help, rather then look for "maybes". Those Maybe's died when Shero was **** canned. The only way i'd want to take a chance on a player is if our players have their man to go god mode with. It's time to go all in for our players to play with Crosby/Malkin. Wheeler, Eberle, Kane, Burns, Pavelski, etc.

 

[Sutter16]

I think it's time Pens find players who know WILL help, rather then look for "maybes". Those Maybe's died when Shero was **** canned. The only way i'd want to take a chance on a player is if our players have their man to go god mode with. It's time to go all in for our players to play with Crosby/Malkin. Wheeler, Eberle, Kane, Burns, Pavelski, etc.

Yeah I see your point about the "maybes" part but Stewart wouldn't let teams cross check and play Sid cheap. Stewart has the potential to score 25-30 goals on the RW1. Plus we wouldn't have to give up a Pouliot or Harrington to get him here. It'd be a risk, but I'd be interested.