Salary Cap: Penguins 2013-14 cap/roster building discussion (Contract chart in Post #1)

[LetangInTheSO]

Id follow what LA does this offseason. They're still a damn good team but could use some better personnel on defense and maybe a different look up front.

Brown is struggling like back before their Cup run. Id love to see us go after him. Perfect Crosby linemate.

This offseason could see some big names on the move.

I like Brown as a player, but his contract is horawful. Almost $6M/yr for 8 years until he's 38 years old? Uuuuuuugly.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Id follow what LA does this offseason. They're still a damn good team but could use some better personnel on defense and maybe a different look up front.

Brown is struggling like back before their Cup run. Id love to see us go after him. Perfect Crosby linemate.

This offseason could see some big names on the move.

How is Brown what Crosby needs in any way?

 

[wgknestrick]

Better question is, can MAF get back above the playoff meltdown line (.900SV%) tonight?

 

[Gurglesons]

How is Brown what Crosby needs in any way?

Because we need a defensively sound RW for Crosby that puts up 40 - 60 points a year. Duh.

 

[mpp9]

How is Brown what Crosby needs in any way?

He plays a style that Crosby thrives with.

Sid's been playing with Gibbons over Beau. And now with Stempniak. I'm done thinking its on DB. Sid likes to play with a certain style of player. Brown fits the bill and is an upgrade over what we have.

 

[themethod7]

If I'm Shero and looking to deal with LA, Toffoli or Zykov++ is in the mix or I hang up the phone.

 

[LetangInTheSO]

He plays a style that Crosby thrives with.

Sid's been playing with Gibbons over Beau. And now with Stempniak. I'm done thinking its on DB. Sid likes to play with a certain style of player. Brown fits the bill and is an upgrade over what we have.

Once again. 8 years @ almost $6M/yr until he's 38 years old. Deal breaker.

 

[Gurglesons]

He plays a style that Crosby thrives with.

Sid's been playing with Gibbons over Beau. And now with Stempniak. I'm done thinking its on DB. Sid likes to play with a certain style of player. Brown fits the bill and is an upgrade over what we have.

Brown is Dupuis with less speed and a little more physicality. This board would run him out of town, especially with his contract.

I live in LA and watch the Kings all the time.

 

[billybudd]

He plays a style that Crosby thrives with.

Sid's been playing with Gibbons over Beau. And now with Stempniak. I'm done thinking its on DB. Sid likes to play with a certain style of player. Brown fits the bill and is an upgrade over what we have.

Brown's basically a dirtier, perhaps slower, Pascal Dupuis with less terrible hands. Offensive game mostly involves cycling, setting picks and going to areas that require babysitting from an opposition player.

People like to pretend that Dupuis was out of place on that line, but in everything that didn't involve hands, he actually fits like a glove. It's notable that Sid and Kunitz' numbers rise significantly (vs when with non-Dupuis wings) even when Dupuis is on a pointless streak.

Over the years, there have been a lot of silly suggestions as far as who could go to Sid's line and increase the overall production vs Pascal (Bennett, Tangradi, Setoguchi, Boychuk...lol), but the player that Brown has been is one that would very likely pull off exactly that. Stylistically he's a fit and doesn't have the same achilles heel as the guy he's replacing to nearly the same degree.

The contract is, however, very, very bad for a guy with as many hard minutes in his past as Brown has. Is he having an off-year or did he wash up? Neither would surprise me.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Two teams I'd be monitoring this off-season are the Oilers and Maple Leafs. Edmonton could certainly use some of our experienced veterans. That No. 3 overall pick would be great to acquire. I'd peddle Kunitz or Martin and our first to move up to No. 3. Peterborough Petes power forward Nick Ritchie would be my main target. He'd be ideal for Crosby. A long term power forward in the Stevens-Tocchet mold. Perfect.

I'd look at Toronto closely because of all the talk about their lack of leadership. Maybe we could ship Craig Adams their way. Maybe they'd take Dupuis. Maybe Kunitz or Martin.

We need to get younger legs in here and TRY hard to dump some of these awful contracts we have.

 

[Hottubber]

Two teams I'd be monitoring this off-season are the Oilers and Maple Leafs. Edmonton could certainly use some of our experienced veterans. That No. 3 overall pick would be great to acquire. I'd peddle Kunitz or Martin and our first to move up to No. 3. Peterborough Petes power forward Nick Ritchie would be my main target. He'd be ideal for Crosby. A long term power forward in the Stevens-Tocchet mold. Perfect.

I'd look at Toronto closely because of all the talk about their lack of leadership. Maybe we could ship Craig Adams their way. Maybe they'd take Dupuis. Maybe Kunitz or Martin.

We need to get younger legs in here and TRY hard to dump some of these awful contracts we have.

Shipping Letang off to Edmonton wouldn't be a bad idea either

 

[Shockmaster]

Better question is, can MAF get back above the playoff meltdown line (.900SV%) tonight?

Except he hasn't melted down. Watch the games, not the stat sheet.

 

[themethod7]

Shipping Letang off to Edmonton wouldn't be a bad idea either

Not like they're short on young, high ceiling forwards either, so swapping players rather than picks is just as enticing, if not more so. And if we're willing to move Letang for a pick or a young, unproven but high potential forward (not that I think either would necessarily be a good idea), the number of teams that match up rises significantly. If you can move some package involving Letang to TB and have Drouin or Kucherov coming back the other way, you have to look long and hard at that deal.

Sigh... a man can dream.

 

[Pens1566]

He has NOT played like a 7+ million dollar dman for 3 seasons are you kidding? You could maybe argue 1... but 3??? And that one was shortened season.


Maybe I value being able to trust a D-man in tight situations a hell of a lot more than you do. His last deal, he was underpaid, now he's overpaid. I think it was poor asset management by keeping him. I can see the argument for keeping him though, but I'll never agree that he's played like a 7+million dollar man for more than a half season.


Edit: Forgot to add, your market value statement is probably true. He would have got that on the open market or probably more. That doesn't make it a great move.


Don't even get me started on the PP. I don't dislike him, but he is what he is... and he's currently overpaid and will be unless he gets significantly better mentally. His skills are there but doesn't have the brain.

He said "current" contract, meaning the 3.5mil one.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I believe you are giving too much weight to the Norris voting. Letang wasn't selected as one of the top 8 D for Team Canada. Add that Karlsson, Chara, Suter, OEL, etc., and Letang isn't in the NHL top 12 D. Heck, Martin has been the better D over the last 2 seasons in most people's minds. I guess we are all trying to figure out what Shero actually won in that contract negotiation with Letang?

Letang wasn't selected because he had been injured this year and played like ass when he wasn't. Giroux was in a similar position at forward.

The previous 3 years he'd been the 2nd most dynamic offensive defenseman in the league and above average defensively.

I love Letang (see my username) and while I personally wouldn't say he's overpaid, it could certainly be debated. Have a look at the top 10 paid dmen:

Weber
Suter
Letang
Campbell
Phaneuf
Doughty
Chara
Karlsson
Pietrangelo
Green

How many of those guys would you trade for Letang? For me, it's all of them with the exception of Phaneuf, Green and maybe Campbell.

The question isn't whether we'd trade him for them though. The issue is how he measures up to his peers contract-wise. It's not out of line at all.

There's an argument that Letang may not be the right fit for this team at that salary, but his salary is fine for his track record the last few years, current **** season notwithstanding. The stroke also complicates things.

He said "current" contract, meaning the 3.5mil one.

It got a bit convoluted, haha. Letang's clearly played above his 3.5 mil per salary, but his play the last 3 years before this one is worthy of a 7+ mil salary in the open market. I'm only arguing against the idea that he's some sort of albatross, which is ridiculous.

And keep in mind, most defensemen really don't start coming into their own until their mid to late 20s, it's just the nature of the position. The Karlsson's and Maatta's of the world are the exception, not the rule, and he's already shown he can play at an elite level before the age of 25. Trading Letang for anything less than a vast overpayment would be a mistake.

Then again, he could turn into Mike Green 2.0 and I'd feel like a real ******* in a few years. Let's hope it never comes to that...

We'd have to get an elite RW in return for me to want to think about dealing Letang...and considering the sort of player Sid seems to want on his RW, I don't know if it would even be worth it.

 

[Sideline]

Two teams I'd be monitoring this off-season are the Oilers and Maple Leafs. Edmonton could certainly use some of our experienced veterans. That No. 3 overall pick would be great to acquire. I'd peddle Kunitz or Martin and our first to move up to No. 3. Peterborough Petes power forward Nick Ritchie would be my main target. He'd be ideal for Crosby. A long term power forward in the Stevens-Tocchet mold. Perfect.

I'd look at Toronto closely because of all the talk about their lack of leadership. Maybe we could ship Craig Adams their way. Maybe they'd take Dupuis. Maybe Kunitz or Martin.

We need to get younger legs in here and TRY hard to dump some of these awful contracts we have.

I like the teams you mention as possible trade partners, but I don't like the idea of moving Martin. He's the best defenseman on the Penguins. He's playing so damn well Brooks Orpik has looked not useless.

Kunitz and Dupuis are complimentary players around the core. I'm not looking to chase them out of town like Gladams, but in the right deal they should certainly be made available.

Letang is the guy that I think needs to be moved. Niskanen will be cheaper to keep and is capable of giving you 85% of what Letang does when both are at their best. When you consider Niskanen is much more consistent I think that's a good tradeoff to make.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Beau Bennett ($0.900m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Ryan O'Reilly ($6.500m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Nikolai Kulemin ($2.800m) / Marcel Goc ($2.250m) / Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
Matt Martin ($1.000m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Deryk Engelland ($0.567m)
Brian Gibbons ($0.605m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Olli Maatta ($0.894m) / Matt Niskanen ($4.250m)
Simon Despres ($0.851m) / Paul Martin ($5.000m)
Brian Dumoulin ($0.832m) / Rob Scuderi ($3.375m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Jeff Zatkoff ($0.600m)
BUYOUTS
Craig Adams ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,373,000; BONUSES: $68,333
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,727,000

Letang + 1st + to Colorado for R. O'Reilly, signed.

Sign Kulemin.

Trade for Martin.

Tell Adams and Orpik to go and **** themselves.

Re-sign and promote accordingly.

Last but not least, tell Bylsma to **** off. Hire Laviolette.

Give me that lineup with Lavy, I'll be ****ing happier than a pig in ****. Cup FAVORITES, not just contenders, for a decade.

 

[themethod7]

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Beau Bennett ($0.900m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Ryan O'Reilly ($6.500m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Nikolai Kulemin ($2.800m) / Marcel Goc ($2.250m) / Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
Matt Martin ($1.000m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Deryk Engelland ($0.567m)
Brian Gibbons ($0.605m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Olli Maatta ($0.894m) / Matt Niskanen ($4.250m)
Simon Despres ($0.851m) / Paul Martin ($5.000m)
Brian Dumoulin ($0.832m) / Rob Scuderi ($3.375m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Jeff Zatkoff ($0.600m)
BUYOUTS
Craig Adams ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,373,000; BONUSES: $68,333
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,727,000

Letang + 1st + to Colorado for R. O'Reilly, signed.

Sign Kulemin.

Trade for Martin.

Tell Adams and Orpik to go and **** themselves.

Re-sign and promote accordingly.

Last but not least, tell Bylsma to **** off. Hire Laviolette.

Give me that lineup with Lavy, I'll be ****ing happier than a pig in ****. Cup FAVORITES, not just contenders, for a decade.

Holy overpayment. For ROR you not only send Letang AND a first, but you add to that??? No thanks. Also, I thought the point of bringing in Kulemin was to stick him on Malkin's LW, given their chemistry overseas??

 

[PensPlz]

Id follow what LA does this offseason. They're still a damn good team but could use some better personnel on defense and maybe a different look up front.

Brown is struggling like back before their Cup run. Id love to see us go after him. Perfect Crosby linemate.

This offseason could see some big names on the move.

I agree, Brown would be a good fit for us here, I would be super excited to see what he would be able to do with Sid, and we can go after him... but only AFTER LA uses a buyout on his contact, because it's terrible. I could see him get 4.5M here for a few years but what he's getting now is rough to handle.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Holy overpayment. For ROR you not only send Letang AND a first, but you add to that??? No thanks. Also, I thought the point of bringing in Kulemin was to stick him on Malkin's LW, given their chemistry overseas??

It's going to take that much to get ROR from Colorado, and it's worth it. Letang is a luxury here, and his contract is going to bite us in the ass unless we get rid of it ASAP. I'm fine with that payment, honestly. It might be an overpayment, but you're gonna have to overpay considering Letang's play and his injury issues. Losing Letang++ is worth ROR on Sid's wing for the next decade.

And the lineup is versatile. Kulemin's a 2nd/3rd line guy, can do both. Bennett prefers the LW, and Kunitz played extremely well with Geno and Neal a couple of seasons ago. Swap the wingers up if you'd like, Bennett to 3rd, Kunitz to 1st, Kulemin to 2nd, etc.

There's literally no weakness to that lineup in terms of forwards. Maybe question marks at defense, but I don't think it'd be a problem.

 

[swaggerjack]

How much is Nisky going to cost and more importantly -- is he worth it?

 

[Harvey Birdman]

How much is Nisky going to cost and more importantly -- is he worth it?

What is he worth to us? I think 4.5-5M. He will no doubt get 5M+ on open market.

I hope we let Orpik walk, and fine a new home for one of Letang or Scuds and resign Nisky.

 

[swaggerjack]

Obviously Nisky > Orpik, but I can't see us finding a partner to get rid of Letang or Scuderi's contract.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Obviously Nisky > Orpik, but I can't see us finding a partner to get rid of Letang or Scuderi's contract.

If we put Scuderi on the market Shero will have calls within the hour. He has been bad here, but someone will absolutely trade for a guy with his experience and whatnot.

 

[penguins2946*]

I used to only have 1 untouchable prospect, which was Pouliot and that has a lot to do with Letang's murky future. I've added another, Jarry. Fleury just managed to crush any hopes that I had for him to overcome his playoff demons. Keep Jarry at ANY cost. He's the anti-Fleury.