GDT: PDF/WCSF Sharks (3) vs Golden Knights (1) Round 2 GAME THREE 7pm NBCSN

[Negatively Positive]

Who ever asked that question just lost their media access to the Sharks

It's like Russia but without the missing journalists.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

Man, this team finds yet another way to kick its fans in the dick/between the legs. I hope game 4 will have much better result

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Well said.

I'm not happy with the play of several star players in this game, including Couture, Burns, and, of course, Jones. But just because they are bad, you can't excuse failings of other players (and the reverse is, of course, doubly true).

I still think, despite his blunder, that Martin should be in over DeMelo. DeMelo looked lost in the defensive zone, was terrible at moving the puck, and provided very little offensive pop (I realize it resulted in a goal, but still). Ideally, Martin and DeMelo should both sit in favor of Ryan and Heed.

Overall, this was a puzzling lineup from DeBoer. I like the strategic changes he's made from period to period and game to game, and 100% understand sitting an injured Donskoi, but Goodrow as the #3C? I will take Thornton at 80% over Goodrow as the #3C.

Not unless Thornton hasn't been cleared yet. Nobody knows what's going on. If Thornton and Donskoi come back that will settle the forwards.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Man, this team finds yet another way to kick its fans in the dick/between the legs. I hope game 4 will have much better result

Most didn't expect them to make the playoffs anyway.

 

[Negatively Positive]

No wonder Vlasic wasn't that happy after the game 2 win. He knows he'll have to cover for Martin and play extra minutes for the rest of the playoffs. Vlasic is pretty blunt so I wonder if he's brought it up with Deboer. Martin did get more shifts in this OT than last game so they were trying to give Vlasic more of a breather and look how that turned out.

 

[Alwalys]

Just rewatched the game winner, Martin's play was even dumber than I thought.

It was pretty much the monty python "run away" technique

 

[Alwalys]

Man, this team finds yet another way to kick its fans in the dick/between the legs. I hope game 4 will have much better result

taco.

 

[WTFetus]

Thanks. I actually found a link:

San Jose Sharks @SanJoseSharks

What do you know, someone asked about Martin! About 1:30 in, Deboer with a non-answer/redirect that would make a politician proud.

Deboer in regards to Martin's increased ice-time: "(Our defensive depth) has been the strength of our team all year".

A competent (non-Bay Area) reporter would have followed up with "Yeah, Joakim Ryan played 62 of the regular season games while Paul Martin spent the majority of the season scratched or in the AHL".

 

[Lebanezer]

Deboer's postgame press conference basically confirmed that Paul Martin will play game 4. I think the Sharks should beat Vegas, but Deboer is making this so much more difficult than it needs to be.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

Deboer's postgame press conference basically confirmed that Paul Martin will play game 4. I think the Sharks should beat Vegas, but Deboer is making this so much more difficult than it needs to be.

Then DW HAS to step in. He's seeing the shitshow unfold from the pressbox and he knows how capable Ryan is. This is inexcusable at this point

 

[ChubbChubby]

Vlasic, and Braun to a lesser extent, were absolutely spent about halfway through regulation. The minutes are already taking its toll and it's only 3 games into the series. Combine that with 2 PKs in OT and Deboer was forced to play Martin to eat some minutes, but that ended up costing us the game. Posters in this topic have a right to be upset when Ryan is sitting in the press box after already demonstrating in the regular season that he can handle top 4 minutes and can be utilized safely in high pressure situations. Playing Demelo over Heed is beating a dead horse and I've already given up hope for that, but what confuses me is why Deboer is dressing Martin over Ryan when Deboer already showed trust in Ryan for a majority of the season.
Combine that with the knowledge that Hansen is scratched, the roster decisions as a whole don't make a lick of sense.

 

[RickyHP]

cooled down a bit.

i dont even know what to say. the GWG was largely martin's fault, and i know i cant blame jones, but the guy needs to start making some saves. i give credit where credit is due, and jones has come through at times. but MAF is outplaying him and its not even close.

im still confident we can win this series. i think the sharks have solved vegas' system and now its a matter of just capitalizing 5 on 5

the bonehead mistakes need to stop. burns did not have a good game either, let alone our entire defense. ryan needs to be playing instead of paul martin but im not hopeful about that change. It needs to happen badly or vegas is just going to keep flying by our pairings.

4th line still looked amazing. Love sorensen, kid is always making plays happen. and kane had his chances. just needs to crisp his play up.

bummer we aren't going in with a chance to be up 3-1. tonight was the shark's game and they lost it themselves.

 

[Lebanezer]

Then DW HAS to step in. He's seeing the ****show unfold from the pressbox and he knows how capable Ryan is. This is inexcusable at this point

If DW steps in, it will be after the season. Maybe Deboer won't be here anymore, he's certainly doing more harm than good. I mean, how can you bench a guy for so long that he requests a trade, gets waived, and then suddenly becomes someone you rely on in the 2nd round of the playoffs? If anything it makes me question his ability to evaluate his own players.

 

[Hinterland]

I really want to know what Hansen and Ryan did to piss off Deboer. Hansen is tailor made for this type of series. Was he late to practice? Does he prefer making a stretch pass as opposed to lazily flipping it off the glass? I don’t get it

He's not Melker Karlsson. That's why.

 

[Juxtaposer]

At some point DeBoer has to ice a left-handed defenseman that is capable of playing top-4 minutes. I think Ryan is that player, but if DeBoer ices Ryan over Martin and still plays Vlasic for 30 minutes a game, we have the same problem: Vlasic is dog-tired.

 

[RickyHP]

At some point DeBoer has to ice a left-handed defenseman that is capable of playing top-4 minutes. I think Ryan is that player, but if DeBoer ices Ryan over Martin and still plays Vlasic for 30 minutes a game, we have the same problem: Vlasic is dog-tired.

This is my biggest worry. Vlasic and braun are starting to look spent.

 

[Hinterland]

We're not gonna win this series unless Pete DeBoer starts benching the players that are CLEARLY and OBVIOUSLY struggling (Karlsson, Labanc, Martin) and puts in players that have been itching to play yet are riding the pine for no good reason.

Also, zero excuse to not play Thornton. He's been healthy for ****ing WEEKS now.

I'd probably keep Labanc in for PP's. Otherwise I agree. Bring Thornton for Fehr, Hansen for Karlsson, Ryan for Martin and maybe even consider Heed for DeMelo.
I'd also put Pavelski back on wing.

Meier, Hertl, Goodrow
Kane, Thornton, Pavelski
Boedker, Couture, Hansen
Sorensen, Tierney, Labanc

Vlasic, Braun
Ryan, Burns
Dillon, Heed


Vegas weak links are Engelland and Eakin since they're terribly slow and will continously produce turnovers if pressured. Use the Couture line against Eakin and Engelland whenever possible and, with one more home game, the Hertl line to shut down their top line.

 

[Jacomagoo]

Having to kill a too many men and then a delay of game within the first few minutes of OT is why they lost.

They need to get in fleurys head. I’m not saying run him but there needs to be bodies flying into his house every whistle like Sorensen did. He should not be smiling after making great saves he should be scared shitless

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Just to add to this, the systematic changes that Sharks made after the early part of the season all came at the expense of defense. I don't know that believing the team is in a better place now is looking at things objectively. The Sharks bleed chances defensively. They haven't played this loosely on defense in a long time. When Doug looked at Vegas and decided to make changes in their system, one of the crucial differences between Vegas and the Sharks is that Vegas chooses to dress defenseman who can skate well. I understand Heed's benching in favor of Demelo because clearly Deboer was trying to mitigate the systematic changes towards offense by dressing, in his eyes, the most responsible 6 defenseman. If the Sharks are going to choose to play this type of game though, the personnel has to match, Martin is too slow for the style they're playing now (and the NHL.) Vegas, especially their 1st line, is just eating up the Burns/Martin and Dillon/Demelo pairing.

Again, our performance was slightly better in terms of points per game in games where Tim Heed was in the lineup. Our goals for per game increased only slightly while our goals against per game went way up.

In 2017, we allowed 12 goals in 6 games against Edmonton. Connor McDavid was clearly the best player on the ice, but he still scored only 2 goals and 2 assists in 6 games. (2 GA/GP)

In 2016, we allowed 15 goals in 6 games against Pittsburgh. Sidney Crosby was held to 0 goals and 4 assists in 6 games. (2.5 GA/GP)

In 2016, we allowed 13 goals in 6 games against Pittsburgh. Vladimir Tarasenko was held to 2 goals and 0 assists in 6 games. (2.17 GA/GP)

In 2016, we allowed 16 goals in 7 games against Nashville. Filip Forsberg was held to 1 goal and 0 assists in 7 games. (2.29 GA/GP)

In 2016, we allowed 11 goals in 5 games against the Los Angeles Kings. Anze Kopitar was held to 2 goals and 2 assists in 5 games. (2.2 GA/GP)

In 2018, against the Vegas Golden Knights, we have already allowed 14 goals in 3 games. (4.67 GA/GP) William Karlsson already has 3 goals and 4 assists.

We are currently allowing more than twice as many goals against per game as we allowed in all of our last 6 series except for the one against Pittsburgh - a team that has an argument for best post-lockout NHL team.

Do you guys not realize, that what made us a successful team in 2016, was that we had elite defense? We held every team to a very low amount of goals for. The only reason we didn’t shred Edmonton was that Thornton and Couture were both horridly injured. This team’s defense got significantly worse during our “transition” and everybody just kind of ignored it because we scored a few more goals. Our advanced stats over the last ~25 games are worse than they’ve ever been.

We do not have superstars that can consistently win track meet type hockey games. Burns and Couture, love em’ both to death, are not Crosby and Malkin. Neither of those guys have ever scored anywhere near where Kessel did this year. Thornton is on that level if he plays like he did in 2016 but I’m expecting us to add Tavares before that happens.

We need to be an elite defensive team if we want to win. We have the top end personnel to do that but our depth is so awful that it doesn’t matter.

 

[Juxtaposer]

This is my biggest worry. Vlasic and braun are starting to look spent.

Braun at least has Burns (and DeMelo ) to share the load. Vlasic is on an island. Martin and Dillon aren’t good enough or trusted enough to play top-4 minutes.

@JoeThorntonsRooster You think we don’t have the horses to keep up in a track meet against Vegas? I think Couture, Pavelski, Burns, and Hertl match up pretty decently against Karlsson, Marchessault, Neal, and Smith. We don’t have to be an elite defensive team to win. We just need to outscore our opponents. 7-6, 2-1, it’s all the same to me.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I cannot excoriate Burns and Jones enough. Martin was the goat in OT, Labanc was a warm body, and Dillon and DeMelo were traffic cones. But superstars lead the way, and a strong or even above-average game from Burns OR Jones and the Sharks win this game.

@JoeThorntonsRooster You think we don’t have the horses to keep up in a track meet against Vegas? I think Couture, Pavelski, Burns, and Hertl match up pretty decently against Karlsson, Marchessault, Neal, and Smith. We don’t have to be an elite defensive team to win. We just need to outscore our opponents. 7-6, 2-1, it’s all the same to me.

I would agree, but how does the matchup look when Fleury is outplaying Jones?

You look at SC-winning goaltenders, and it is rarified air. Goaltending performances where goalies give their team a chance to win every night, and outright bail their team out a night or two. So far in this series, the Sharks have lost in large part thanks to Jones, or have won despite him.

There is a aphorism written on the Sharks’s locker room “to whom much is given, much is expected”. Burns and Jones are getting nearly a combined 15 million. They get a ton of ice time, billing, and responsibility. Just treading water isn’t good enough.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I cannot excoriate Burns and Jones enough. Martin was the goat in OT, Labanc was a warm body, and Dillon and DeMelo were traffic cones. But superstars lead the way, and a strong or even above-average game from Burns OR Jones and the Sharks win this game.



I would agree, but how does the matchup look when Fleury is outplaying Jones?

You look at SC-winning goaltenders, and it is rarified air. Goaltending performances where goalies give their team a chance to win every night, and outright bail their team out a night or two. So far in this series, the Sharks have lost in large part thanks to Jones, or have won despite him.

There is a aphorism written on the Sharks’s locker room “to whom much is given, much is expected”. Burns and Jones are getting nearly a combined 15 million. They get a ton of ice time, billing, and responsibility. Just treading water isn’t good enough.

Look, I totally agree with you, but there are some caveats. Firstly while Jones has been pretty mediocre this series, he has a history of playoff excellence. I think he deserves a little bit of the benefit of the doubt.

With Burns, again, not superb, but he did take over game 2. He’s playing a ton of minutes and a lot of those are with aforementioned pylons, Martin and Dillon.

Obviously those two have to step it up, but I’m not sure it’s fair to single them out at this juncture. Obviously Fleury is outplaying Jones and that’s the only reason that we’re down 2-1, but Fleury is also playing unconscious.

 

[Alwalys]

Okay I have calmed down a bit. Still just sickened by shooting ourselves in the foot with the lineup decisions, but by my reckoning we outplayed them in both of the last 2 games. Losing one sucks but at least we know how to outplay them. All we can do is continue to do that and see where the chips fall. This really could be a "reason it's 7 games" type of series.

Also I figure we're due for a little puck luck any minute now. We have been straight rogered by lady luck so far in this series.

 

[DeadGhost]

The Sharks ineffectiveness to clear their zone all series cost them with those 2 glass penalties. Ryan over Martin gets more speed back there to aid in this.

 

[Friday]

Deboer is drunk