Coach Discussion: Paul Maurice Pt II, The gooder, the badder, the uglier.

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LowLefty

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If you don't have anything concrete to add, why beyond the world are you quoting in the first place?



At first I read "oh this again" and thought you misinterpreted something and confused a statement with the last playoffs but then I read again. But seriously? Geez, I really want to repeat myself here with the "this again?" So every time P.Mo makes a bad move/decision, doesn't comprehend the opposing tactics or is ten steps behind in strategy, we shall call it "lost to a super hot goalie" . Right. Vegas says hello! :)

Too bad there are no statistics to show if a coach is or is not a winner. Expect that maybe there is? What about that record of "most lost games by NHL coach"? ;)

What exactly are you talking about picking "my option not yours"? The only "option" I even mentioned or suggested was slotting Roslovic into the second line, which by the way has nothing whatsoever to do with Kyle Connor being moved out of second line. Think your imagination might have gone off the trail here a little bit.

First of all, have you been reading anything at all what I've been saying here? Secondly, what exactly have I "made up"? Nevermind talking about temporary or permanent solutions, gah. We were explicitly talking about last night's game against St Louis that I specifically brought out as an example, or well I and some others at least were talking about the game. Not exactly sure what you're on about. So unless you are denying that switching Connor with Ehlers (straight up) doesn't pretty much shatter the offensive efficiency of the second line, then I suggest you at least re-read what it exactly is you're debating over for. It doesn't even matter if we are talking about long-term or short-term solutions. I didn't think I'd have to explain this this thoroughly, but obviously if your second line has close to zero odds producing in the next 20 minutes, that doesn't exactly increase your odds of winning a game when your team is already trailing before entering the third period. Just to elaborate to avoid any further misunderstandings.

I never argued about the plan probably being about uplifting the first line, but about first AND second lines both being as dynamic as possible uplifting the odds of winning the game (as opposed to just one) which ultimately is the goal. In this scenario they disarmed the second unit by reforming a line that has proven almost entirely incapable of even ending up in the score sheet. So even if the first line was better, the entire balance was worse because two offensively capable lines are always better than one. Now if you don't believe me and you wish to argue for the sake of arguing, why not check again what the end score was? We are dealing with what happened, not about my take on the weather.

Ok, so lets say you have two players playing chess and player A has a "brilliant" offensive plan in the makings and he executes a move that initiates a chain of events that collapses his front soldiers, kills a queen and stalemates the king in the favour of player B. Now this is imaginary example but what if it really happened, would you still say hat player A made a "smart move"?

Now I didn't start anything, but I don't particularly enjoy when someone claims that I make things up. Everything I've said I've tried to either explain or illustrate to the best of my abilities. Anyway, you can say you agree to disagree and leave it to that or we can talk more. Cheers!

I'll try harder to explain my comments - here goes:

Your quote -
"Erm, it was a good move and the team lost? I'm little bit confused here cause how can a decision be good when the outcome is bad?"

So, based on this, every decision that doesn't end in a positive outcome, is a bad decision?
That's making stuff up - you are not allowing for any other circumstances to play a role - just the one.
The team may have lost for other reasons - maybe very good apposing goal tending? Maybe hitting the post? Maybe fanning on a shot?

Your second quote:
"So you think it's better to be a one line team than have at least two scoring lines? That doesn't sound quite right either."

I never said that - it's pure hyperbole. I would never suggest we run as a one line team. But I might suggest stacking one up for a few minutes in a smothering situation like last night. So yes, stop making stuff up - or - do a better job of explaining your point it the initial post rather than coming back and pretending I can't read.

Anyway, from there it all went down hill - so let's just move on.
 

jepjepjoo

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Dec 31, 2002
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Sure - swapping centers is another option -no debate on that one.
Maurice went with something just as good if not better - depending how you look at it in this situation.
If you think Laine is a better option than Wheels in a highly physical game . . . that's all we're really debating here.

And yes, I'm behind the coach and his decisions for the most part.
But you have no idea which Maurice decision I may or may not support - this isn't a fan boy thing as you are insinuating.

Wheeler is not a goal scorer but you know what he does do well. KC and Scheif are - and both of them were better options than Laine in this situation.
Pretty much any other night, I'd probably agree with you.

CSW
CF%46.46
GF%42.86
SCF%44.64
HDCF%40.48

VS

ESW
CF%54.10 +7.64
GF%72.22 +29.36
SCF%56.46 +11.82
HDCF%.52.94 +12.46

CSW shouldn't happen, it wasn't good last season if real results matter to anyone here and it has been utter bullcrap this season.
 

LowLefty

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CSW
CF%46.46
GF%42.86
SCF%44.64
HDCF%40.48

VS

ESW
CF%54.10 +7.64
GF%72.22 +29.36
SCF%56.46 +11.82
HDCF%.52.94 +12.46

CSW shouldn't happen, it wasn't good last season if real results matter to anyone here and it has been utter bullcrap this season.

You can put your stats away -
It was only a 1 period call out under a particular set of circumstances which have been covered in detail
 

jepjepjoo

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Dec 31, 2002
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You can put your stats away -
It was only a 1 period call out under a particular set of circumstances which have been covered in detail

those stats are for the season... CSW has been poor compared to other 1st lines ever since combined.

PoMo should be able to try something else.
 

Board Bard

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Jun 7, 2014
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People like to complain.
Anyone ever hear/read what other teams are saying about us.
How good the team is, how well they are coached?
He had our team 3 wins away from playing for the cup last year and about 105 point pace this year...let's fire him...unbelievable.

For those of you wanting Q, have you ever read what the Hawks' fans were saying about him? Even when they were winning?

I don't think I've ever seen another team's fans say the Jets are well coached by Maurice. Just the opposite. Personally I think there's lots of room for improvement in that department with the Jets. As far as 114 goes, thank Hellebuyck, not Maurice.
 

Board Bard

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Fair enough, but you also might want to ask Wheeler why he insists on doing the same **** with the puck when those option aren't there. He was poor with his movements and his decisions last night, did he put the puck down low to Connor once? He kept taking the puck from Buff while moving towards the middle and usually ended up 6 inches from Scheifele and the top defender in the box. Not his best night out there.

And after you ask Wheeler that, ask Maurice if, as head coach and someone allegedly proficient enough, he noticed that or not. If he did not, why not? And if he did, why did he not at least tinker with it to get the PP out of its rut?
 
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LowLefty

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those stats are for the season... CSW has been poor compared to other 1st lines ever since combined.

PoMo should be able to try something else.

Yes, he should - I don't disagree
I'd rather not see Connor back on the 1st line - I like him where he is.

But moving KC to the 1st for a few minutes against the blues, made sense IMO.
 
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jepjepjoo

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Yes, he should - I don't disagree
I'd rather not see Connor back on the 1st line - I like him where he is.

But moving KC to the 1st for a few minutes against the blues, made sense IMO.

Why? It hasn't worked before. And there's lots of data because of PoMo's stubbornness and his inability to read that said data.
 
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kcin94

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Jul 17, 2011
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Yes, he should - I don't disagree
I'd rather not see Connor back on the 1st line - I like him where he is.

But moving KC to the 1st for a few minutes against the blues, made sense IMO.

I disagree. I have agreed with both CSW and ESW versus LSW for a lot of reasons, mostly defensively as they play against the other team's best lines.

However, it the situation of being down a goal later in the game, when other things haven't been working, that going to LSW where Scheif/Wheeler can retreive pucks and get it to Laine (or at least have a bigger scoring threat to give SW more room) would be better. Yes, it makes it a bit more likely they give up a goal, but that is the difference between losing by 1 or 2.

Much different situation in the Rangers game. The Jets were getting chances all over the place, so leaving lines in tact made sense there.
 

LowLefty

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Why? It hasn't worked before. And there's lots of data because of PoMo's stubbornness and his inability to read that said data.

I already explained why -
This was a very tight checking defensive game -
These 3 were the best suited to cut through that kind of game.
Why are they best suited? Because that's the kind of game they can play if / when needed.

If you want to debate Mo being stubborn, pick a larger sample size and a different situation
and I'll support that.
 

jepjepjoo

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I already explained why -
This was a very tight checking defensive game -
These 3 were the best suited to cut through that kind of game.
Why are they best suited? Because that's the kind of game they can play if / when needed.

If you want to debate Mo being stubborn, pick a larger sample size and a different situation
and I'll support that.

So the entire history of CSW isn't enough?
 
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LowLefty

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So the entire history of CSW isn't enough?

Yes, it's enough - I've already agreed with you on this point. I don't want to see CSW as a go forward line either - I've already stated that more than once. I'm really trying here.

I'm referring to the 10 minutes in this game where that line made sense - that 10 minute sample of time is where your stats don't matter.
Laine is not at his best in tight checking games - but wheeler, Scheif and KC are - that makes sense to me but doesn't to you so lets move.
 

jepjepjoo

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Yes, it's enough - I've already agreed with you on this point. I don't want to see CSW as a go forward line either - I've already stated that more than once. I'm really trying here.

I'm referring to the 10 minutes in this game where that line made sense - that 10 minute sample of time is where your stats don't matter.
Laine is not at his best in tight checking games - but wheeler, Scheif and KC are - that makes sense to me but doesn't to you so lets move.

When chasing your best goal scorer should be the #1 option no matter what.

Connor-Scheifele-******* 39GF 37GA
*******-Scheifele-Laine 45GF 30GA
 

Whileee

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May 29, 2010
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I think the main point they are making is he loves those types of players which clearly we do not need because as you said yourself we have one of the best young rosters in the league.
So I agree with both of you
I don't disagree that he likes those type of players, but I do think this roster might need a player or two that is more physical and aggressive getting to the net, particularly for the playoffs. Last year, Vegas was able to push the Jets to the perimeter too much and we could have used a player that created more havoc around the net and could score. That's partly why I think the Jets are trying to develop Lemieux. They might feel he'll add a dimension they lack for the playoffs, which does tend to favour a somewhat different style in some series.
 

PhilJets

Winnipeg is Good
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Somewhere nice
Yeah

If Jets wanted to use power vs. Power

KC Schiefele Laine.
They probably will score. But we lost haizz..

:)


I so love Wheeler but him being use

Before 20-21mins now 23 24 25 is crazy...

Special team or none. That is still a lot.
You still huff and puff after you play the special team.


Weird that the coach is not splitting 55 and 26. For like 2 years now.
I dont think its the magic wand to the Jets success. It can be and it is part of it. But its not the major part.
 

Eyeseeing

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I don't disagree that he likes those type of players, but I do think this roster might need a player or two that is more physical and aggressive getting to the net, particularly for the playoffs. Last year, Vegas was able to push the Jets to the perimeter too much and we could have used a player that created more havoc around the net and could score. That's partly why I think the Jets are trying to develop Lemieux. They might feel he'll add a dimension they lack for the playoffs, which does tend to favour a somewhat different style in some series.
I agree in principle but Lemieux isn’t gritty AND talented like a Kadri or Wilson for example.
So if we want gritty...that player needs some skill too and I’m not seeing it in Lemieux
 
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