Paul MacLean Appreciation Thread

[Pierre from Orleans]

How in the world can anyone 'absolutely despise' him.

You need help

I despised some of his coaching decisions but other than that I enjoyed him as a person

 

[Ice-Tray]

I really liked the man, and wish him well. We led us to some pretty epic moments and I'm very thankful of that. He is also one of the few Sens to win a league award.

I didn't want him dismissed, but like the Spezza trade, and Alfie leaving, I quickly switch gears and look forward to what changes will come.

Good Luck McLean! You're an NHL head coach now with many fine coaching years ahead of you.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I despised some of his coaching decisions but other than that I enjoyed him as a person

Sure, I can understand that, but abject hatred, even the hyperbolizing use of it, is all to frequent around here these days.

Disagreeing with decisions is one thing, hating the man is another.

It's hurtful, and makes me a sad panda to read it...

 

[Laphroaig]

Paul McLean is a class act. I enjoy his sense of humour and I don't believe he could have got much more out of a middling group of players provided by an incompetent GM and a cheapskate owner.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

Paul McLean is a class act. I enjoy his sense of humour and I don't believe he could have got much more out of a middling group of players provided by an incompetent GM and a cheapskate owner.

This x1000

I finally hit my breaking point with this team. There's no direction, just be happy with a group that pushes for the 8th seed every year.

 

[BigRig4]

This x1000

I finally hit my breaking point with this team. There's no direction, just be happy with a group that pushes for the 8th seed every year.

I've accepted that our Stanley Cup is the 8th seed with the consistent bottom 5 payroll and the cap due to increase by another 5 million on top of last year's increases. We're just gonna fall even further behind.

 

[Alex The Loyal]

This x1000

I finally hit my breaking point with this team. There's no direction, just be happy with a group that pushes for the 8th seed every year.

I've accepted that our Stanley Cup is the 8th seed with the consistent bottom 5 payroll and the cap due to increase by another 5 million on top of last year's increases. We're just gonna fall even further behind.

Yep. Cameron will be inevitably fired, replaced by a yes man coach, Murray will eventually leave, and be replaced by yes man gm, who will be fired and eventually replaced by another yes man gm

We're basically the Dallas Cowboys of the NHL in terms of management, except instead of having an Owner as a GM we have a GM with the owner's hand stuck right in his rear like a puppet

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Paul McLean is a class act. I enjoy his sense of humour and I don't believe he could have got much more out of a middling group of players provided by an incompetent GM and a cheapskate owner.

Except these players have played better earlier in there careers and have regressed...we know for a fact he wasnt getting the most out of them.

 

[Micklebot]

Except these players have played better earlier in there careers and have regressed...we know for a fact he wasnt getting the most out of them.

Just for arguments sake,

Cowen and Ceci are playing some of their best hockey together. Cowen may have looked as good back when he was playing with Gonchar, but that's debatable.

MacArthur took a huge step forward since coming here (granted that he did have some good season's before, but it looks like he's back to that)

Many of the players regressing (Michalek, Neil, Karlsson, Spezza, Phillips) have pretty obvious explanations, be it age or injury.

Ryan has seen a slight increase in pts per game since his last seasons in Anaheim despite playing through injuries a good chunk his time here, and has added an improved defensive game to his repertoire.

Turris saw obvious improvements over his time in Phx and was expected to struggle a bit now that he's bumped into a #1 center role.

Anderson and Lehner seem to be doing fine.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

Except these players have played better earlier in there careers and have regressed...we know for a fact he wasnt getting the most out of them.

TOTAL BS.

SO Zibanejad hasn't improved? Cowen? Ceci? Turris (the guy Phoenix gave up on)?

You know nothing for "fact". Please prove how anyone regressed? Other than Zack Smith (who sucks and has mashed potatoes for brains).

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Just for arguments sake,

Cowen and Ceci are playing some of their best hockey together. Cowen may have looked as good back when he was playing with Gonchar, but that's debatable.

MacArthur took a huge step forward since coming here (granted that he did have some good season's before, but it looks like he's back to that)

Many of the players regressing (Michalek, Neil, Karlsson, Spezza, Phillips) have pretty obvious explanations, be it age or injury.

Ryan has seen a slight increase in pts per game since his last seasons in Anaheim despite playing through injuries a good chunk his time here, and has added an improved defensive game to his repertoire.

Turris saw obvious improvements over his time in Phx and was expected to struggle a bit now that he's bumped into a #1 center role.

Anderson and Lehner seem to be doing fine.

Cowen and Ceci have played ... what? 5 or so games together and personally i'm not seeing the huge improvement that people keep talking about.

Condra, Greening, Smith and Wier are obvious answers. Cowen probably deserves to be in that group too. Bottom line Wier and Cowen were suppose to be huge pieces of this dcore and Murray believes both have been mismanaged(he doesnt believe in healthy scratching young players rather he wants them to be coached through their issues).

Injuries might of had an impact but we see tons of players come back from injuries and continue on the same career trajectory. Michalek was injured but hes still the fastest skater on the team so i question just how much injuries real have hindered him of late.

Ryan regressed from Anaheim and when asked he said the injury had no effect on his play till the end of the season.

I give him zero credit for Lehner or Anderson although admittedly in my mind he'd have nothing to do with them aside from saying who's starting.

Then we can throw out that the defense is still bad and hes seemingly has had no effect on it improving.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

TOTAL BS.

SO Zibanejad hasn't improved? Cowen? Ceci? Turris (the guy Phoenix gave up on)?

You know nothing for "fact". Please prove how anyone regressed? Other than Zack Smith (who sucks and has mashed potatoes for brains).

Like i said before...MacLean said it takes a year before a player understand a system and before that they play on instinct.

Cowen, Wier, Condra, Greening, Smith most of the first wave of call ups who looked good got worse.

Its impossible to make an argument if we start off by saying zach smith sucks. We know hes better then hes been.

Then you have Phillips and Neil looking worse because they were over played. Suggesting these are middling players is fine but suggesting he couldnt get more out of them is false because they have played better earlier in their careers and theres been no reason for them to get worse or look as bad as they have.

One name i forgot was Methot. Everyone was saying he took steps backwards last year from his first season.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

Like i said before...MacLean said it takes a year before a player understand a system and before that they play on instinct.

Cowen, Wier, Condra, Greening, Smith most of the first wave of call ups who looked good got worse.

Its impossible to make an argument if we start off by saying zach smith sucks. We know hes better then hes been.

Then you have Phillips and Neil looking worse because they were over played. Suggesting these are middling players is fine but suggesting he couldnt get more out of them is false because they have played better earlier in their careers and theres been no reason for them to get worse or look as bad as they have.

One name i forgot was Methot. Everyone was saying he took steps backwards last year from his first season.

Oh, ok, so you're just going off total confirmation bias then?

How has Condra gotten worse? His play, after being scratched has easily exceeded what he was doing last year. And his play last year wasn't bad at all. He was a victim of numbers that saw Maclean want to play Hoffman and Stone instead.

Greening? Greening is the same player now that he was three years ago. He is a middling power forward that was made to look better by playing with Jason Spezza.

Wiercoch? His poor play can be attributed to his poor foot speed, skating and strength. All major physical limitations that no amount of coaching can overcome barring steroids and some major ice skating coaching.

Cowen has easily improved this year. The fact that you mention his name with this lot shows your inability to evaluate players properly.

You've also avoided players like Stone and Hoffman (who have clearly improved from year-to-year) because they don't fit your agenda.

And that you need to use Neil and Phillips to support your argument, considering anyone could attest that performance downturn to, you know, AGE means you've just taken a position of dissent on Maclean and no amount of actual facts would dissuade you from this position.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Oh, ok, so you're just going off total confirmation bias then?

How has Condra gotten worse? His play, after being scratched has easily exceeded what he was doing last year. And his play last year wasn't bad at all. He was a victim of numbers that saw Maclean want to play Hoffman and Stone instead.

Greening? Greening is the same player now that he was three years ago. He is a middling power forward that was made to look better by playing with Jason Spezza.

Wiercoch? His poor play can be attributed to his poor foot speed, skating and strength. All major physical limitations that no amount of coaching can overcome barring steroids and some major ice skating coaching.

Cowen has easily improved this year. The fact that you mention his name with this lot shows your inability to evaluate players properly.

You've also avoided players like Stone and Hoffman (who have clearly improved from year-to-year) because they don't fit your agenda.

And that you need to use Neil and Phillips to support your argument, considering anyone could attest that performance downturn to, you know, AGE means you've just taken a position of dissent on Maclean and no amount of actual facts would dissuade you from this position.

I avoided Stone and Hoffman because theyve barely been around the team and MacLean has said in the past that players take a year to fully understand a system. You're not even listening to what i'm saying due to your blind devotion to MacLean. I dont even have an issue with MacLean other then the defense that has been terrible and the team has had to be bailed out by goaltending. I would have been fine with him staying but i welcome Cameron and i'm hoping he can improve the defense rather then just bashing him. I do take issue with people saying he couldnt get more out of this middling group of players which is what my first comment was about because before many of them have played better(greening, wier, cowen) or looked better because they werent relied on and over used(phillips and neil.)

 

[Micklebot]

Cowen and Ceci have played ... what? 5 or so games together and personally i'm not seeing the huge improvement that people keep talking about.

Ceci and Cowen are each other's most common partners. They have each played together for about 10 games. If you don't see the improvement, that's on you not me.

Condra, Greening, Smith and Wier are obvious answers. Cowen probably deserves to be in that group too. Bottom line Wier and Cowen were suppose to be huge pieces of this dcore and Murray believes both have been mismanaged(he doesnt believe in healthy scratching young players rather he wants them to be coached through their issues).

So 3rd and 4th liners and bottom pair D regressing are your issue? Imo, neither of Greening or Condra have regressed, they just are what they are. Smith isn't much different now than he was a few years ago either. Wiercioch to me just isn't being used. That's different imo than regressing, but still a valid concern.

Injuries might of had an impact but we see tons of players come back from injuries and continue on the same career trajectory. Michalek was injured but hes still the fastest skater on the team so i question just how much injuries real have hindered him of late.

What??? Watch his skating when he arrived vs now and it's a clear difference. Still fastest skater on the team???

Ryan regressed from Anaheim and when asked he said the injury had no effect on his play till the end of the season.

Last season in Anaheim: .65 pts per game.
This year: .71 + improved defensive game.

He's also not getting time on the PP with Getzlaf and Perry here.

As far as the injury not affecting him, of course he'd say that, whether it's the truth or not we will never know though. I don't know about you, but if I'm doing something through pain, it's going to affect me no matter how often I say it doesn't.

I give him zero credit for Lehner or Anderson although admittedly in my mind he'd have nothing to do with them aside from saying who's starting.

I have no clue how much or little he worked with the goalies, so whatever. He did chose to play Anderson through his struggles last year which brought some criticism, but Anderson did rebound nicely posting some great numbers from Dec onward.

Then we can throw out that the defense is still bad and hes seemingly has had no effect on it improving.

This is a different argument completely; the defense seems to be the combined result of a system and the lack of required talent to execute it. He expected his D to exit the zone with limited support form the forwards, and guys like Phillips, Gryba, Boro and Cowen aren't built for that. Methot being out made it all the worse, but this isn't really relevant to players regressing.

 

[Benjamin]

Im not buying players have regressed because of Maclean.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Ceci and Cowen are each other's most common partners. They have each played together for about 10 games. If you don't see the improvement, that's on you not me.


So 3rd and 4th liners and bottom pair D regressing are your issue? Imo, neither of Greening or Condra have regressed, they just are what they are. Smith isn't much different now than he was a few years ago either. Wiercioch to me just isn't being used. That's different imo than regressing, but still a valid concern. I'm not going to look up the stats but havent Condra's possession numbers and points totals dropped since his rookie season? Greening was an effective player without spezza. Ho hes probably not a 20 goal scorer but he isnt as bad as 6 goal scorer.


What??? Watch his skating when he arrived vs now and it's a clear difference. Still fastest skater on the team??? didnt he win the last skill comp for fastest skater? an if you dont see him use his speed on occaision thats on you not me



Last season in Anaheim: .65 pts per game.
This year: .71 + improved defensive game.

He's also not getting time on the PP with Getzlaf and Perry here. Was it him or Selanne on the pp with ryan and how many pp point was ryan even getting?

As far as the injury not affecting him, of course he'd say that, whether it's the truth or not we will never know though. I don't know about you, but if I'm doing something through pain, it's going to affect me no matter how often I say it doesn't.
Personally when ive played through sports injuries and the adrelaine gets going nagging injuries seem to lessen. Ryan said it didnt bother him so we likely have to take him on his word.



I have no clue how much or little he worked with the goalies, so whatever. He did chose to play Anderson through his struggles last year which brought some criticism, but Anderson did rebound nicely posting some great numbers from Dec onward.



This is a different argument completely; the defense seems to be the combined result of a system and the lack of required talent to execute it. He expected his D to exit the zone with limited support form the forwards, and guys like Phillips, Gryba, Boro and Cowen aren't built for that. Methot being out made it all the worse, but this isn't really relevant to players regressing.

i dont have time to argue and look up stats atm some stats i have checked in the past others i havent

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Im not buying players have regressed because of Maclean.

I shouldnt of said it that way i guess. I took issue with someone saying he couldnt get anymore out of these middling players which i believed was incorrect because many of them have played better in the past. So ya i do believe Smith, Condra, Greening, Wier
(maybe cowen) can play better and i believe Methot can play better then he did last season because we've seen them play better in the past.

 

[Micklebot]

i dont have time to argue and look up stats atm some stats i have checked in the past others i havent

I'm not going to look up the stats but havent Condra's possession numbers and points totals dropped since his rookie season? Greening was an effective player without spezza. Ho hes probably not a 20 goal scorer but he isnt as bad as 6 goal scorer.

This is the first year Condra's posession numbers have dipped significantly, however, the team as a whole has dipped. His OZ start % is also the lowest it's ever been.

Greening's production declining is likely mostly due to his role reducing and changing. He played with Spezza, then he played on a team that needed him when Spezza and Michalek were down with injuries, then he played a more and more reduced role.

an if you dont see him use his speed on occaision thats on you not me

While he isn't slow, he's not what he used to be. He also lacks the acceleration he once had. He used to beat people with just his speed. Can't recall him doing that much lately. Doesn't mean he's slow, but he's certainly not the fastest on the team.

Was it him or Selanne on the pp with ryan and how many pp point was ryan even getting?

2012-13 was the only year where Selanne was more frequently Ryan's linemate on the PP than Getzlaf, and that's the year that Ryan's numbers dropped the most.
But it's not just playing with them on the PP, but at ES too. His ES time with them reduced that year too.

Personally when ive played through sports injuries and the adrelaine gets going nagging injuries seem to lessen. Ryan said it didnt bother him so we likely have to take him on his word.

Fair enough, I personally view it as it didn't affect enough that he'd consider coming out of the lineup. I have a hard time buying it didn't affect him at all, but am willing to ignore that aspect. I do still question that you think Ryan has regressed.

 

[pepty]

This is supposed to be an appreciation thread.

If you didn't think he did a good job start a new thread with a title
saying he was a poor coach or whatever.

But an appreciation thread is the wrong place to be taking shots at him.