Management Paul Fenton

[57special]

Again' in any organization, if the boss just hires " his guys" , then he is in danger of being surrounded by yes men.

 

[Bazeek]

I've been mostly lurking on HF the last year or so, but I will chime back in on this, because it's something I've been curious about for a while now. That is, how much oversight do NHL GMs actually have? I'd always assumed that like most jobs on the planet, Fenton (or Fletcher, or Chiarelli, or whoever) would have someone else at the very least looking over their shoulder recommending for/against moves, putting their feet to the fire, etc. (especially since they can actually be fired). But now I'm really wondering if they're not more like medieval kings: they can basically do whatever they want, just being mindful of the torches and pitchforks that may come out if they mess up, and sometimes you get a good "roll of the monarchy dice", and other times you don't.

It just seems crazy to me that Fenton wouldn't actually have a whole team of advisors and staff around him helping to make moves.

My impression of this is that it varies by team. The President of Hockey Operations that some teams have seems to act in the way you're describing: partly a strategic advisor but he also sort of represents the owner(s) and acts as someone for the GM to "answer to." With some teams, especially the smaller ones, I get the impression that the GM can act pretty unilaterally: Chayka in Arizona is formally both the GM and the Pres of Hockey Ops, as an example. But then you have Edmonton where they're in the middle of a GM search and who was actually making/influencing decisions during the Chiarelli years seems to be a hot topic. There's a case where they could replace the GM but keep this cloud of "advisors" intact and not really change much.

Russo has mentioned (maybe recently in the Modano article) that Leipold's been "urged" to bring in a President of Hockey Ops in the past. I'm sure there are several reasons, but I get the feeling that a big one is to provide an extra layer of oversight above the GM. He does have some advisors already, though. Ferreira, at least, was hired explicitly to be an advisor.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

I've been mostly lurking on HF the last year or so, but I will chime back in on this, because it's something I've been curious about for a while now. That is, how much oversight do NHL GMs actually have? I'd always assumed that like most jobs on the planet, Fenton (or Fletcher, or Chiarelli, or whoever) would have someone else at the very least looking over their shoulder recommending for/against moves, putting their feet to the fire, etc. (especially since they can actually be fired). But now I'm really wondering if they're not more like medieval kings: they can basically do whatever they want, just being mindful of the torches and pitchforks that may come out if they mess up, and sometimes you get a good "roll of the monarchy dice", and other times you don't.

It just seems crazy to me that Fenton wouldn't actually have a whole team of advisors and staff around him helping to make moves.

Every organization is different but there is definately people watching the GM and giving opinions on moves. I just wonder if the people in these roles for MN are willing to say “that’s dumb” because Fenton brought them in. I also get this weird sense from Fenton that he is just the cockiest human alive. Some of his interviews he makes the reporters feel like they’re just idiots and that he knows something that nobody else does. I would’nt be suprised if he just thinks his opinion is the right one at all times and just shakes off everyone else’s opinion.

 

[63firebird]

I have to say, Paul's strange conduct, his strange moves with no real prediction for the future, his lack of seeming to handle problems, I don't know.

1. I like two of the trades. I was underwhelmed by #64's return, but I am OK with Fiala, he'll be a gamer IMO. We'll see.

2. You already know how I feel about Rask. I didn't want Nino traded. He's too good, even though he wasn't producing. I think Nino should have gotten prospects or picks and could have been waiting on until the draft to move us up the draft board. Because...

3. Zucker is now your movable piece, but we kind of need Zucker. I think we do at least. And now you have a disgruntled Zucker, who by all accounts (Russo), has not even HEARD from Fenton regarding what happened.

4. You don't want the locker room to be against the GM. You just don't. They don't have to be buddies, or even like him, but it's not good to have a locker room who mostly hates the GM. It's unhealthy for the team and product and results.

5. I am afraid of what he will do with JEE. This kid is the biggest revelation this season. Whatever happened in his head after Iowa worked. He is playing as good as Koivu, but is faster. I am serious. And I am afraid Fenton will either trade him, or bury him. Because...

6. We now have a Staal and Koivu back on the depth chart. Unless Fenton keeps JEE, puts Staal as a #2 center, and Koivu as a 3rd, JEE isn't playing as many minutes as he needs to be. Unless this is a blip and JEE goes back to being a nobody, he needs maximum minutes. I honestly see this kid becoming a perfect #2 shutdown center who can also put up 50 points a year. He has 9 points in his last 17 games, while playing a major shutdown role against the best lines of other teams. He has been big for us. This org needs to keep and promote this kid and let him continue to grow. 6'2'' 205 with IQ and skill. For the love of god don't **** that up.

7. Fenton just seems to have no foresight. But, I don't know, I am not there, I don't know him, I don't know if he simply wanted to move a lot of weight at wholesale and then...well I don't know.

8. I am just confused. I have defended two of his three trades. But I can't defend the lack of future foresight.

I hope I’m wrong but Koivu will come back as 1 or 2. Ek will get pushed down and lose minutes. Unless somehow the culture is really going to change which I hope it has this will happen.
I was hoping Zucker would find a home elsewhere but that didn’t happen. He’s great as a cherry picker for Granny and Staal and now Donato to feed but I’m not sure come playoffs ( if that happens) he won’t disappear again.
I understand Fenton is trying to change it up but how much room is there really to bring in impact players with Koivu, Suter and Parise eating how much cap? What options does Fenton have but to make the sort of sideways deals he’s made?

 

[Bazeek]

I hope I’m wrong but Koivu will come back as 1 or 2. Ek will get pushed down and lose minutes. Unless somehow the culture is really going to change which I hope it has this will happen.
I was hoping Zucker would find a home elsewhere but that didn’t happen. He’s great as a cherry picker for Granny and Staal and now Donato to feed but I’m not sure come playoffs ( if that happens) he won’t disappear again.
I understand Fenton is trying to change it up but how much room is there really to bring in impact players with Koivu, Suter and Parise eating how much cap? What options does Fenton have but to make the sort of sideways deals he’s made?

Lots. About $20m to re-sign RFAs (Fiala, Eriksson-Ek, Donato and (maybe) Aberg) and replace/re-sign UFA's (Fehr, Brown, Hunt/Bitetto).

 

[MNNumbers]

Considering the cap keeps rising, I think I like the moves Fenton has made....at least in a general sense.

I think that he should have held out for some picks along with Fiala and Rask. But I think I like the idea, which must be like this:

Even if Granlund, Coyle and Niederreiter turn out to be better than Fiala, Donato and Rask....the former three are getting older (not old) and are not likely to get much better than they are, which is...Not good enough.

So, even if the trade brings completely even talent, it preserves the present level of team ability for a few more years, which the former three were NOT going to do.

Sure, it's a risk, but one that needs to be taken.

However, I dislike the fact that he could/should have gotten a few more picks back, with which to roll more dice for future good to great players.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

If he's going to make these risky "hockey trades", then he better not start getting loose with the 1st rounders.

 

[MNRube]

Fiala-Staal-Parise
Greenway-JEE-Kunin
Donato-Koivu/Rask-Zucker
Foligno-Rask/Koivu/XXX-Fehr

Should be a faster team next year. I like that Fiala, Kunin, JEE all have good motors. Still slow down the middle, but some quick wingers to get in on forecheck. Replacing Zucker with Kaprizov and Koivu/Staal with a legit C prospect and we will be looking Ok.

I think Rask contributes next year. He's been embarassed and ridiculed and if he has any pride he will show up in careeer shape. We will see.

 

[space321]

Every organization is different but there is definately people watching the GM and giving opinions on moves. I just wonder if the people in these roles for MN are willing to say “that’s dumb” because Fenton brought them in. I also get this weird sense from Fenton that he is just the cockiest human alive. Some of his interviews he makes the reporters feel like they’re just idiots and that he knows something that nobody else does. I would’nt be suprised if he just thinks his opinion is the right one at all times and just shakes off everyone else’s opinion.

GMs definitely have people giving them advice and suggestions, like taking input from scouts/coaches/other advisors. But they also have the final say on all transactions, and I believe that's the same for all 31 teams in the league. A GM might have to "answer" to a POHO in some orgs but I think that's just a formality.

The situation in Edmonton is weird because fans are so fed up with the 13 years of failure that they're just looking for anyone to blame. Funny they never praised the OBC when they made the playoffs in 2017. Some people also think the OBC were using Chiarelli as a puppet GM which is just ridiculous though, there's no way Chiarelli would ruin his own reputation for a measley 3M per year. He's only in his 50s and a managerial career could go well into the 70s, so he's not giving up 20 years of profit jsut to let the Oilers OBC push him around. Even Elliot Friedman mentioned that the OBC did not agree with all the moves Chiarelli made but still let him do it.

I don't know what type of supporting cast Fenton has, but he's 100% believing in every move he makes, which makes me very worried. I believe a GM should have the final say in all transactions, but if he only brings in "yes men" or is not willing to listen to advice, then that's a problem.

 

[Bazeek]

Fiala-Staal-Parise
Greenway-JEE-Kunin
Donato-Koivu/Rask-Zucker
Foligno-Rask/Koivu/XXX-Fehr

Should be a faster team next year. I like that Fiala, Kunin, JEE all have good motors. Still slow down the middle, but some quick wingers to get in on forecheck. Replacing Zucker with Kaprizov and Koivu/Staal with a legit C prospect and we will be looking Ok.

I think Rask contributes next year. He's been embarassed and ridiculed and if he has any pride he will show up in careeer shape. We will see.

Even this year they've looked faster. Not necessarily in the skating but in the speed of the play, especially in the offensive zone.

I don't like the trades overall, but I also think the team is playing better now than it was previously. That'll probably change as the season wears on, but lately I've been tuning into games waiting for them to take a nosedive and they've kind of done the opposite. And watching the Big Bad Central Teams (Jets and Preds) play last night, they both looked pretty beatable. I'll probably change my mind within a week, but I'm getting really curious to see what the Skating Leftorium does in the playoffs.

If they beat the Flames in the Saddledome on Jarome Friggin' Iginla night I'm gonna be real close to all-in.

 

[57special]

Every organization is different but there is definately people watching the GM and giving opinions on moves. I just wonder if the people in these roles for MN are willing to say “that’s dumb” because Fenton brought them in. I also get this weird sense from Fenton that he is just the cockiest human alive. Some of his interviews he makes the reporters feel like they’re just idiots and that he knows something that nobody else does. I would’nt be suprised if he just thinks his opinion is the right one at all times and just shakes off everyone else’s opinion.

You want to avoid being the next Thibodeau

 

[Aurinko]

Staal-Lee-JEE-Koivu and we are back in business. Keep on crafting Mr. Fenton.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Lee isn't a center. I don't think even in high school.

 

[nickschultzfan]

I was down enough on Fenton prior to listening to latest Russo-Souhan podcast, but it is a little unsettling to just have that backed by other people closer to the league.

Fenton may be not the sharpest tool in the shed.

 

[Minnesnota]

I was down enough on Fenton prior to listening to latest Russo-Souhan podcast, but it is a little unsettling to just have that backed by other people closer to the league.

Fenton may be not the sharpest tool in the shed.

What gave it away?

 

[nickschultzfan]

What gave it away?

Not sure if you are joking, but Russo said he had people across the league asking him for infoon Granlund being a bad dude because they couldnt believe that Fenton didnt ask more than Fiala. They thought there had to be some lockeroom drama.

 

[Minnesnota]

Not sure if you are joking, but Russo said he had people across the league asking him for infoon Granlund being a bad dude because they couldnt believe that Fenton didnt ask more than Fiala. They thought there had to be some lockeroom drama.

Yes I was being sarcastic. I'm not a fan of Fenton AT ALL. I wanted BriseBois, badly.

I like Donato and Fiala, but we gave up way too much to get them. Fenton is either incompetent or just REALLY bad at being a GM.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Yes I was being sarcastic. I'm not a fan of Fenton AT ALL. I wanted BriseBois, badly.

I like Donato and Fiala, but we gave up way too much to get them. Fenton is either incompetent or just REALLY bad at being a GM.

I really wanted brisebois

 

[thestonedkoala]

I really wanted brisebois

Didn't look like BriseBois was available.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Didn't look like BriseBois was available.

He wasn’t, but I still wanted him.

 

[Minnesnota]

Didn't look like BriseBois was available.

Then why'd he interview for the job?

 

[Bazeek]

Then why'd he interview for the job?

Did he?

Edit: Ah, according to this he did. I thought he was one of the candidates that the Wild got the "do not disturb" sign on.

 

[Arturia Pendragon]

Fenton is the honest salesman with a compulsive shopping mentality.
Even though I don’t mind his body of work, yet..., I do have concern that he’s setting a precedence for continued low ball offers.

 

[2Pair]

Did he?

Edit: Ah, according to this he did. I thought he was one of the candidates that the Wild got the "do not disturb" sign on.

For all we know, that interview may have been a part of why Yzerman quit.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Then why'd he interview for the job?

We don't know the extent of the interview; but he didn't make it to the finalist round and that might because BriseBois passed on it as he knew Yzerman was going to step down and he wanted to see if the Wild could blow his socks off. But BriseBois did not get past the initial round for who knows why.