Player Discussion: Patrik Laine

[winnipegger]

Lines with Fefe + Pate have been producing about 70% MORE goals for per played 60 minutes (5-on-5) than lines with "Mark Wheeler", so at least that common opinion of yours is not a statistical fact.

I am not against trying Scheifele with Laine, but it might be true that we get the best out of Wheeler when he's played with Scheifele. The point of the Winnipeg Jets isn't to maximize the points of Patrick Laine, it's to maximize the points of everyone. Wheeler is going to score 90 points + with Scheifele. That's almost a certainty. Maybe Laine produces well with Scheifele, will Wheeler produce well with Little? They haven't played together for quite a while now.

 

[SniperOnTheWing]

I am not against trying Scheifele with Laine, but it might be true that we get the best out of Wheeler when he's played with Scheifele. The point of the Winnipeg Jets isn't to maximize the points of Patrick Laine, it's to maximize the points of everyone. Wheeler is going to score 90 points + with Scheifele. That's almost a certainty. Maybe Laine produces well with Scheifele, will Wheeler produce well with Little? They haven't played together for quite a while now.

Maybe Wheeler gets 100pts playing with Schiefele AND Laine, won't know until Mo tries it though

 

[Halberdier]

I am not against trying Scheifele with Laine, but it might be true that we get the best out of Wheeler when he's played with Scheifele. The point of the Winnipeg Jets isn't to maximize the points of Patrick Laine, it's to maximize the points of everyone. Wheeler is going to score 90 points + with Scheifele. That's almost a certainty. Maybe Laine produces well with Scheifele, will Wheeler produce well with Little? They haven't played together for quite a while now.

Obviously the point is not to maximize points of Laine. But as I wrote lines with Patrik Scheifele has been producing 70% more than lines with Mark Wheeler. That means playing Scheifele with Laine instead of Wheeler maximizes also Scheifele's production and not only Laine's. Also playing Wheeler with Little maximizes Little's production and also gets Ehlers going.

Current situation with CSW & ELL may benefit Wheeler, but is worse for Fefe, Little, Laine and Ehlers. Not sure about Connor, but it depends whether he would play with CSL or with CLW. The latter case would probably reduce his point totals, but it's possible the CSL would benefit him too, but we just cannot know before testing it.

I'm pretty sure the current situation is bad for the team. (Or suboptimal. With this amazing talent Jets have they might just win like no tomorrow even with stupid lineup, and that's not a bad thing. Just a huge waste.)

 

[jepjepjoo]

I am not against trying Scheifele with Laine, but it might be true that we get the best out of Wheeler when he's played with Scheifele. The point of the Winnipeg Jets isn't to maximize the points of Patrick Laine, it's to maximize the points of everyone. Wheeler is going to score 90 points + with Scheifele. That's almost a certainty. Maybe Laine produces well with Scheifele, will Wheeler produce well with Little? They haven't played together for quite a while now.

Wheeler 5on5

17-18
14g 27a
Playoffs 0g 7a

16-17
15g 22a

 

[Tommigun]

I am not against trying Scheifele with Laine, but it might be true that we get the best out of Wheeler when he's played with Scheifele. The point of the Winnipeg Jets isn't to maximize the points of Patrick Laine, it's to maximize the points of everyone. Wheeler is going to score 90 points + with Scheifele. That's almost a certainty. Maybe Laine produces well with Scheifele, will Wheeler produce well with Little? They haven't played together for quite a while now.

The more important question is will Little produce more with Wheeler. The answer is almost certainly a yes, and I think the Jets really need Little to be kickstarted. He needs to get going and needs new linemates.

 

[Ukkosenjumala]

Thing is Laine is already a premium goal scorer and an offensive dynamo yet people don't want to take full advantage of that because he has to work on.... winning board battles? By pairing him with a center who people say can't carry him through his weaknesses and another winger who's said to exacerbate the issue? But somehow they went on a tear with Stastny despite their weaknesses?. It's easy now to sit back and disregard the obvious problems on that line because jets are expected to dominate but if they're fighting for a playoff spot come march, I expect the discussions will be quite different.

 

[ijuka]

I am not against trying Scheifele with Laine, but it might be true that we get the best out of Wheeler when he's played with Scheifele. The point of the Winnipeg Jets isn't to maximize the points of Patrick Laine, it's to maximize the points of everyone. Wheeler is going to score 90 points + with Scheifele. That's almost a certainty. Maybe Laine produces well with Scheifele, will Wheeler produce well with Little? They haven't played together for quite a while now.

I hope you realize what you're saying here. You first say that the point isn't to maximize the points of Patrik Laine but the points of everyone, and then talk about Wheeler getting more points with Scheifele.

What you're not taking into account is that Little extremely likely would produce better with Wheeler, Laine better with Scheifele, Scheifele better with Laine(According to historical data). So in reality, you just are arguing for increasing the production of Wheeler rather than everyone else, which in fact goes against the entire premise of your argument of maximizing the points of "everyone". You are only maximizing Wheeler.

Ehlers-Little-Laine was 13-16 in gf% last season. I don't know how having negative GF% for a line in your top 6 can in any way be considered something that maximizes your entire team's performance. On the other hand, Wheeler's shown to have great chemistry with Little - It's an obvious pairing.

 

[Farmboy Patty]

I hope you realize what you're saying here. You first say that the point isn't to maximize the points of Patrik Laine but the points of everyone, and then talk about Wheeler getting more points with Scheifele.

What you're not taking into account is that Little extremely likely would produce better with Wheeler, Laine better with Scheifele, Scheifele better with Laine(According to historical data). So in reality, you just are arguing for increasing the production of Wheeler rather than everyone else, which in fact goes against the entire premise of your argument of maximizing the points of "everyone". You are only maximizing Wheeler.

Ehlers-Little-Laine was 13-16 in gf% last season. I don't know how having negative GF% for a line in your top 6 can in any way be considered something that maximizes your entire team's performance. On the other hand, Wheeler's shown to have great chemistry with Little - It's an obvious pairing.

Well said! The whole point of switching centres on the top two lines is to maximize the team scoring. It would only be a nice bonus that Laine would have a good shot at winning the scoring title as a result of that move.

 

[grieves]

Oh really? Maybe you want to check your stats again?

Laine and Little together on 5 on 5 hockey
Minutes together: 455:13
Goals for and against: 19-19

Laine without Little on 5 on 5 hockey
Minutes without Little: 595:27
Goals for and against: 38-20

Little without Laine on 5 on 5 hockey
Minutes without Laine: 592:07
Goals for and against: 20-22

You are watching a completely different game than I am watching, if you seriously believe in what you just posted...

Well, yeah, I sort of am because just looking GF and GA is probably the least useful of the available metrics if we consider luck to be a part of the game. In any case I said "as far as I can remember" because I don't "seriously believe in what I posted". Having a few goals difference is statistically completely irrelevant.

No need for the hostile tone. It's only game, why you heff to be mad.

 

[grieves]

Laine looks really fast, no wonder people have been hyping the speed game so much. That speed + that reach makes him get to places in a hurry. Awesome.

Pre-season is for calibrating so all panties can be left untwisted until the games start.

 

[Ippenator]

Well, yeah, I sort of am because just looking GF and GA is probably the least useful of the available metrics if we consider luck to be a part of the game. In any case I said "as far as I can remember" because I don't "seriously believe in what I posted". Having a few goals difference is statistically completely irrelevant.

No need for the hostile tone. It's only game, why you heff to be mad.

Sorry if my tone was too hard. I didn’t honestly mean it like that. I do appreciate you very much as a poster, so sorry for making a too edgy post at you. I just dislike very much when something is posted with wrong information. And to me the claim that Little has been offensively good without Laine wasn’t at all true, so I showed why it’s so. Shot metrics tell in reality nothing about real offence and my eye test has told me also clearly that lines that Little has played in have in general sucked quite much offensively. He is just not at all a good playmaker and he is weak with the puck in general. Simply bot at all a good offensive center. A team that has to play that kind of a center in their second line is giving a real advantage to other competitive teams that have real offensively good centers in their first two lines.

Little is a clear problem for the Jets as he is and how he is used now. Way too high salary which causes problems with keeping much better players. And he should absolutely not be a number two center playing with two of the most offensively talented players that the Jets have. It’s just an absolutely unbelievable and horrible situation if Little continues for the season as the number two center and ELL stays together for the rest of the season.

I can absolutely assure that the Jets will never win the Stanley Cup as long as Bryan Little is the center for their second line. No chance in hELL!

 

[grieves]

Sorry if the my tone was too hard. I didn’t honestly mean it like that. I do appreciate you very much as a poster, so sorry for making a too edgy post at you. I just dislike very much when something is posted with wrong information. And to me the claim that Little has been offensively good without Laine wasn’t at all true, so I showed why it’s so. Shot metrics tell in reality nothing about real offence and my eye test has told me also clearly that lines that Little has played in have in general sucked quite much offensively. He is just not at all a good playmaker and he is weak with the puck in general. Simply bot at all a good offensive center. A team that has to play that kind of a center in their second line is giving a real advantage to other competitive teams that have real offensively good centers in their first two lines.

Little is a clear problem for the Jets as he is and how he is used now. Way too high salary which causes problems with keeping much better players. And he should absolutely not be a number two center playing with two of the most offensively talented players that the Jets have. It’s just an absolutely unbelievable and horrible situation if Little continues for the season as the number two center and ELL stays together for the rest of the season.

I can absolutely assure that the Jets will never win the Stanley Cup as long as Bryan Little is the center for their second line. No chance in hELL!

It's cool, and thank you for the compliment.

I need to see more of non-ELL Little before coming to any conclusions. Sample size and all. I do agree that he has to show more given his price tag.

At least when Chef got injured and ELL was dismantled, he really picked up his game. Could be that this is distorting my overall memory or something. But this is OT.

 

[Ducky10]

Thing is Laine is already a premium goal scorer and an offensive dynamo yet people don't want to take full advantage of that because he has to work on.... winning board battles? By pairing him with a center who people say can't carry him through his weaknesses and another winger who's said to exacerbate the issue? But somehow they went on a tear with Stastny despite their weaknesses?. It's easy now to sit back and disregard the obvious problems on that line because jets are expected to dominate but if they're fighting for a playoff spot come march, I expect the discussions will be quite different.

Who doesn't want to take advantage of that?

That's not what people are saying at all.

 

[behemolari]

Im pretty sure if they keep playing him with Little, Laine will hit the road immediately it's possible

Guess what is best for the team

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

I can absolutely assure that the Jets will never win the Stanley Cup as long as Bryan Little is the center for their second line. No chance in hELL!

Or

We will never win a cup until:

- Laine can be productive without relying on a C to carry his line.
- Laine can go into corners and gain possession 50% of the time.
- Laine can win board battles consistently.

Love the "No chance in hELL!", lol.

We were a top 3 team in the league with Little holding down the middle on the second line, so to say we have no hope in hell of winning a cup is completely ridiculous.

 

[Halberdier]

Or

We will never win a cup until:

- Laine can be productive without relying on a C to carry his line.

Relying on carrying C such as Andrew Copp or Blake Wheeler (as a center)? Also as good as Stastny is, he is not considered top tier 1st line center and yet they were awesome together.

Give him anything but Little, and at the very least anything but ELL. They did have some success with PLL, though that particular line was really questionable defensively.

It's also not too much about carrying, but it should be punishable by law to have kind of goal scoring ability Laine has without a setup guy.

 

[Duke749]

Thing is Laine is already a premium goal scorer and an offensive dynamo yet people don't want to take full advantage of that because he has to work on.... winning board battles? By pairing him with a center who people say can't carry him through his weaknesses and another winger who's said to exacerbate the issue? But somehow they went on a tear with Stastny despite their weaknesses?. It's easy now to sit back and disregard the obvious problems on that line because jets are expected to dominate but if they're fighting for a playoff spot come march, I expect the discussions will be quite different.

You act like Stastny did something. Frankly Laine went on a tear because of Laine. He was finding open space. He was moving his feet. He was doing everything that he didn’t do early in the year. Stastny wasn’t some kind of glue. That was all Laine creating on his own and what he is capable of when he really takes over.

 

[Duke749]

Or

We will never win a cup until:

- Laine can be productive without relying on a C to carry his line.
- Laine can go into corners and gain possession 50% of the time.
- Laine can win board battles consistently.

Love the "No chance in hELL!", lol.

We were a top 3 team in the league with Little holding down the middle on the second line, so to say we have no hope in hell of winning a cup is completely ridiculous.

I mean it’s not like it’s a bold statement to begin with. Only one team wins each year and we may never win win with Laine anyways. Winning the Cup is extremely hard and a lot of things have to fall into place.

 

[Tommigun]

I am not against trying Scheifele with Laine, but it might be true that we get the best out of Wheeler when he's played with Scheifele. The point of the Winnipeg Jets isn't to maximize the points of Patrick Laine, it's to maximize the points of everyone. Wheeler is going to score 90 points + with Scheifele. That's almost a certainty. Maybe Laine produces well with Scheifele, will Wheeler produce well with Little? They haven't played together for quite a while now.

And yes Wheeler almost certainly Gets more points with Scheifele, but Little would get more points with Wheeler. Why are Wheeler’s points more important than Little’s? I think the drop in Wheeler’s production would be less than the gain in Little’s production, so it’d be a net positive and we’d also have two functional top lines.

 

[PhilJets]

2 reason for the gain in Wheelers points.

1) he started playing in September, before he wakes up by mid november

2) power play



Schiefele amd wheeler is awesome now though. But i still believe

55+26/18+29 《 55+29/18+26

And you make a 3rd scoring (sheltered) line of roslovic

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

I mean it’s not like it’s a bold statement to begin with. Only one team wins each year and we may never win win with Laine anyways. Winning the Cup is extremely hard and a lot of things have to fall into place.

I agree, which is why its ridiculous to state Little's placement in our lineup will determine if we have a shot.

 

[Ducky10]

Everyone produces more with Scheifele, but who does Scheifele produce best with? Right now I think it's Wheeler. Not that it will always be that way.

I'd like to see Connor and Ehlers switched to see what Connor could do with Little and Laine.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

The Jets are clearly going bird in hand here. They have a dominant, known quantity with the Scheifele/Wheeler/Connor line. It doesn't seem likely Maurice is going to mess with that.

 

[Ducky10]

I can absolutely assure that the Jets will never win the Stanley Cup as long as Bryan Little is the center for their second line. No chance in hELL!

Utterly ridiculous, just stop already.

 

[PhilJets]

The Jets are clearly going bird in hand here. They have a dominant, known quantity with the Scheifele/Wheeler/Connor line. It doesn't seem likely Maurice is going to mess with that.

But the other line suffer.


There are mutiple scenario that Maurice can play 2 dominant lines if he choose too.

Anyways Jets top 6 will score no matter what: The other main recipes to the Jets 2nd place success last year were

Stack D all 3 pairs

Trouba
Buff
Myers

Each

Lowry line, 4th line that dominates

Bottom 6 scoring

Pk/PP improvements

And that Vezina caliber goalie Jets got in net.