Player Discussion: Patrik Laine

[Duke749]

So what you're basically saying is that Little is better than Laine & Ehlers and they need to get on his level?

If the center is relied on to be the main puck retriever in a line, it’s not gonna make a difference who the players are, that line will struggle in the NHL

 

[Kaako Kappo]

...on puck retrieval. At least that is what I got from @Festinator 's post. So Little is better on puck retrieval than Ehlers & Laine, at least for now. And I agree.

I did kinda miss that part. Whopsie.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

They should just change the rules so that the winning team is the team that shoots more, and remove the nets completely.

You guys aren’t as smart as you think you are with your “I don’t agree with something because i refuse to understand it”s etc, just accept the fact that some people refuse to believe in something you believe in without it being a lack of understanding. Do you guys always think that you are right, and if people disagree they just haven’t gotten it?

Some things are a matter of opinion. Others are not. When someone fails to understand or accept proof that his opinion is wrong, what should we call it?

Everyone is entitled to his opinion. But some opinions are simply wrong.

 

[KB1971]

Seems like Ehlers is starting the pre-season in his malaise.

Glad to see Perrault is starting with Little and Laine tonight. I wouldn't even mind to see Connor on that line instead of Ehlers.

 

[cbcwpg]

It's time for the NHL to cut the pre-season games down , if the players are just trying not to get hurt and only giving a half assed effort why does the NHL think many fans would want to watch or pay for these games . Cut the pre-season down to 3 games and make the season 86 , or don't add regular season games , whatever . Bottom line is i can't stand watching guys not trying and floating around the ice for 60 minutes .

Not to get OT... But can't say this enough. The coaches already know who they want on their teams, and sure "sometimes" a player has a really good camp and comes out of no where and makes the squad, but no one is a surprise anymore. Playing 8 useless pre-season games isn't telling anyone something about a player they don't already know after just 2 or 3 games. Also, that's what the AHL is for... evaluating players that aren't stars. Pre-season also used to be a time for the players to get in shape, but most players come in ready to play.

And how would people react if someone like Laine got hurt in a pre-season game and was out for 3 months?

JMO.. I'd rather see the teams spend all their time practising, have 2 pre-season games, and then at 'er.

 

[Halberdier]

Laine just as well struggled with space in the playoffs.

Everyone struggles with space in the playoffs. That's the point. At least Laine was one of the most successful skaters for the Jets on last playoffs, even while "being unlucky" with his shot (low SH% for him and highest numbers of hitting goal posts).

Some "malaise" whatever did hit him just before Vegas series (same "malaise" that forced Ehlers to miss one game before Vegas series), but he definitely managed to be TOP-4 Jet forward all the time on playoffs. He was not only fairly efficient scoring points (better than McDavid and Matthews on PO, btw.), but he was one of the best on 5-on-5 goal differential as well, so he was easily winning his game. Playing with really, really good Stastny definitely helped on that of course.

His underlying numbers -- those more advanced people think to be the reality -- were quite good for his standards.

Some just like to put everything on Little. I'm not a fan of his and hope Roslo takes that #2C spot at some point, just stop at blaming Little on everything.

Apart from couple of trolls, I can't see here people "blaming Little on everything". Perhaps you should finally stop making things up and beating your lovely strawmen?

Laine hasn't been a top level professional yet but he's getting closer to that.

Depends what you do mean "top level professional". He is already pretty darn top level, but surely getting better.

 

[Halberdier]

Seems like Ehlers is starting the pre-season in his malaise.

Glad to see Perrault is starting with Little and Laine tonight. I wouldn't even mind to see Connor on that line instead of Ehlers.

We saw only a short glimpse of Connor-Little-Laine last season, but it surely looked promising.

 

[BB88]

Everyone struggles with space in the playoffs. That's the point. At least Laine was one of the most successful skaters for the Jets on last playoffs, even while "being unlucky" with his shot (low SH% for him and highest numbers of hitting goal posts).

Some "malaise" whatever did hit him just before Vegas series (same "malaise" that forced Ehlers to miss one game before Vegas series), but he definitely managed to be TOP-4 Jet forward all the time on playoffs. He was not only fairly efficient scoring points (better than McDavid and Matthews on PO, btw.), but he was one of the best on 5-on-5 goal differential as well, so he was easily winning his game. Playing with really, really good Stastny definitely helped on that of course.

His underlying numbers -- those more advanced people think to be the reality -- were quite good for his standards.



Apart from couple of trolls, I can't see here people "blaming Little on everything". Perhaps you should finally stop making things up and beating your lovely strawmen?



Depends what you do mean "top level professional". He is already pretty darn top level, but surely getting better.

No they don't, and as professional who lives like a top level athlete day after day. His interview on his nutrition was pretty telling on him not being at that level.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Not to get OT... But can't say this enough. The coaches already know who they want on their teams, and sure "sometimes" a player has a really good camp and comes out of no where and makes the squad, but no one is a surprise anymore. Playing 8 useless pre-season games isn't telling anyone something about a player they don't already know after just 2 or 3 games. Also, that's what the AHL is for... evaluating players that aren't stars. Pre-season also used to be a time for the players to get in shape, but most players come in ready to play.

And how would people react if someone like Laine got hurt in a pre-season game and was out for 3 months?

JMO.. I'd rather see the teams spend all their time practising, have 2 pre-season games, and then at 'er.

It's all about the money. Neither owners or players will go for a reduction in HRR.

And they may be coming to camp in shape, but they still need all those games to "shake off the rust". Didn't you hear what Helly said? He was almost thrilled to let in those bad goals, because they were teachable moments that showed him what he needed to focus on improving over the rest of the pre-season.

 

[garret9]

Well it is, but it's also very likely based on history. Everyone who has actually watched these two players would realize that they won't ever make it together on offense.

But I never argued against the hypothesis.
Only that the evidence they used is fairly weak and had holes.

Dom at the Athletic wrote a quick argument also against the ELL line in a few sentences and it was held together much better.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

But I never argued against the hypothesis.
Only that the evidence they used is fairly weak and had holes.

Dom at the Athletic wrote a quick argument also against the ELL line in a few sentences and it was held together much better.

Meh, I always figured that as long as I found my way home from the bar, it didn't really matter which streets I took.

 

[garret9]

Meh, I always figured that as long as I found my way home from the bar, it didn't really matter which streets I took.

A better analogy:
You try arguing your case with bad logic in court.
See how far that gets you hahah

 

[winnipegger]

Pretty soon it won't matter who Laine's center is. Once his first step catches up to the rest of his offensive toobox we are going to be in for a treat.

Fact is that Scheif and Wheeler are way too good 5v5 to be split up. It's either Laine Little or Laine Roslo and frankly I don't care, I think the most important thing is Laine improving his own game.

 

[Ippenator]

A better analogy:
You try arguing your case with bad logic in court.
See how far that gets you hahah

Very nice analogy! You have been in fact debating here exactly with a person whom works with a lot of court cases and has won most of them by a big margin. And yet you are defying the logic that helped that person win numerous court cases. A wonderful paradox that you just made with your analogy. Do you have a lot of experience with court cases btw? Hopefully not.

 

[BB88]

Atleast his skating looks lighter this pre season, even if it's not going at full effort.

 

[Tommigun]

Atleast his skating looks lighter this pre season, even if it's not going at full effort.

I’d say it’s going at 0% effort

 

[BB88]

I’d say it’s going at 0% effort

Yeah I'm not really a fan of judging teams during pre seasons because of starts playing with whatever mindset.

 

[Tommigun]

Yeah I'm not really a fan of judging teams during pre seasons because of starts playing with whatever mindset.

Someone should light a fire under Laine’s arse. He’s been ok this game but last game was really comical how disinterested he was. Sure it’s pre-season but still.

 

[garret9]

Very nice analogy! You have been in fact debating here exactly with a person whom works with a lot of court cases and has won most of them by a big margin. And yet you are defying the logic that helped that person win numerous court cases. A wonderful paradox that you just made with your analogy. Do you have a lot of experience with court cases btw? Hopefully not.

Good thing the court case is an analogy.

Now if we want to talk about professions we could ask if yours is statistical analysis of hockey and how many teams, agents, and such have paid you for your ability there?

Since you want to go that way.

 

[Ducky10]

Pretty soon it won't matter who Laine's center is. Once his first step catches up to the rest of his offensive toobox we are going to be in for a treat.

Fact is that Scheif and Wheeler are way too good 5v5 to be split up. It's either Laine Little or Laine Roslo and frankly I don't care, I think the most important thing is Laine improving his own game.

What do you mean Laine improve his game? You're not keeping up with this thread apparently .

 

[Plural]

Pretty soon it won't matter who Laine's center is. Once his first step catches up to the rest of his offensive toobox we are going to be in for a treat.

Fact is that Scheif and Wheeler are way too good 5v5 to be split up. It's either Laine Little or Laine Roslo and frankly I don't care, I think the most important thing is Laine improving his own game.

Yeah. He's going to be dictating his own line soon enough. Scheifele will be running his offense and Laine will be running his (bot in different ways). We all get anxious cause it's so much fun to see Laine doing good. But maybe patience is the key here.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Yeah. He's going to be dictating his own line soon enough. Scheifele will be running his offense and Laine will be running his (bot in different ways). We all get anxious cause it's so much fun to see Laine doing good. But maybe patience is the key here.

Unlikely unless Laine dramatically changes the type of player that he is. He's a shooter. The Jets need a playmaking center that can reliably get him the puck at even strength. He's golden on the PP.

 

[19GoalsInPlayoffs]

If the center is relied on to be the main puck retriever in a line, it’s not gonna make a difference who the players are, that line will struggle in the NHL

Well... In the ESL-line (in both of them) who would you say was ”the main puck retriever” in it?

Those lines did absolutely _not_ struggle in the NHL. Far from it. You could even say they dominated. So much depends on the playing style of the line.

 

[Halberdier]

Fact is that Scheif and Wheeler are way too good 5v5 to be split up.

Lines with Fefe + Pate have been producing about 70% MORE goals for per played 60 minutes (5-on-5) than lines with "Mark Wheeler", so at least that common opinion of yours is not a statistical fact.

 

[Plural]

Unlikely unless Laine dramatically changes the type of player that he is. He's a shooter. The Jets need a playmaking center that can reliably get him the puck at even strength. He's golden on the PP.

That's why I wrote different ways. When he gets quicker Laine will be more and more focal point of his line's offense. He might not be the primary puck carrier (although I think he has some good qualities there too) but he will likely be the player his line builds offense around.