Player Discussion: Patrik Laine Part VIII: Eliitti! Mod Warning Post #571

[Ducky10]

He says of course he would want to play more.

That is a statement of not being happy with icetime.

Also states "I don't know why, there must be e's behind it".

How is that a clear statement of unhappiness? It's nothing more than you're interpretation, I don't get that sense at all.
You're clearly being an alarmist.

 

[Psych0dad]

Yeah Laine pretty much says that it is what it is , and that he has to play better to earn the ice time. Whoever wrote that article sounds like the guys here on this board lol. The obsession with Laine and his ice time is getting ridiculous.

The obsession?

As the article mentions his icetime has dropped significantly from last season although he is better this season. And that top 58 of NHL scoring have more icetime than he has , and he is still 40th.

If you can't see a problem and a legit "obsession" then frankly you are not paying any attention. It's a total f***ing travesty and I can't think of another super talented guy like him getting shafted like this by any team. You seem to think it's fine, nothing to see here.

No it's not fine and there's a lot to see here. A lot of great reason to "obsess" about it. It's unheard of, monumental stupidity.

Maurice has done NOTHING to address the issue. The "obsession" isn't going to go away without actions to see if other combinations would work. Some are beaten into submission and just accept that shit can not and will not ever change. I'm one who will keep beating that drum until the glaring problem gets addressed. You can be fine with it but don't ask me to subscribe to that stupidity. I will not stop asking accountability for the coach no matter how much you'd like to dictate that we should just lay down in the fire and be happy. Progress makes me happy and conservatives like Maurice belong on the trash heap of yesteryear with their ridiculous, stagnant thinking.

 

[Ducky10]

How I'd translate Laine's comments in the Iltalehti article mentioned above:

- You'd always like to play more.

- There's something behind that [the decreased TOI]. It could be sparing my energy or something else, I don't know.

- If my time on ice decreases, the coach doesn't have to explain it. It's the way it goes.

- You have to earn your ice time, whining doesn't help. Every time you go on the ice you just have to give all you've got and play better than you have earlier. I have however capitalized my scoring chances pretty well.

- Team succeeding is the most important thing, and we have done pretty well so far this year.​

Sounds like his attitude is much better than many of his biggest fans. I'm not surprised, I think he's a smart young guy who knows the importance of being a team player, especially at that age.

 

[Ducky10]

Yeah I got what it was trying to say, I just found the translation funny. And Scheifele being the"running back" haha.

Mine said Scheifele was their top midfielder, lol.

 

[Festinator]

Mine said Scheifele was their top midfielder, lol.

Lmao, imagine the jets as a soccer team.

Laine and Ehlers up front. Perreault and Wheeler as the LM and RM, Scheifs and Little linking up in the middle.

Enstrom, Morrissey, byfuglien and Trouba as the back line, Hellebuyck in net.

Best team in the Premier League.

 

[StiffSquid]

The obsession?

As the article mentions his icetime has dropped significantly from last season although he is better this season. And that top 58 of NHL scoring have more icetime than he has , and he is still 40th.

If you can't see a problem and a legit "obsession" then frankly you are not paying any attention. It's a total ****ing travesty and I can't think of another super talented guy like him getting shafted like this by any team. You seem to think it's fine, nothing to see here.

No it's not fine and there's a lot to see here. A lot of great reason to "obsess" about it. It's unheard of, monumental stupidity.

He has not earned the first line minutes with his play. Blake Wheeler is a lot better player at the moment. Do you think you raging here is going to change that fact?

Just wait a few more years and you will get what you want.

 

[kelsier]

I bet we will hear this from KC next year when he gets the same treatment.

Oh yeah. I was finally able to read the entire article from my phone. Patrik's a smart kid, he's not going to go out guns blazing yelling for bad treatment but subtly inserting his thoughts. You can read the everyday usual "team first" and "coach doesn't need to explain" etc, but it breaks down to "there must be something behind it". Looks like there's little communication between him and his coach and he doesn't want to cause a turmoil. You've probably watched the last games and in the last goals he has scored, I could barely see even a smile. Doubt he gets Maurice any better than me or you do but one thing I'm sure of, he is ambitious and if the ice time remains as it is, who knows if he wants to stay here - tied or not. Staying and wanting to stay are always different things.

 

[JetsFan815]

Matthews plays with Hyman (worse than Little) and Nylander (who is basically their Ehlers), only a little over 17 mins a game with no PP1 time and is absolutely killing it.

By saying that Laine needs more ice time and better linemates than Matthews the Laine fanboys here are basically admitting Matthews >>>> Laine AINEC.

Not being badly outshot in the last dozen or so games and not constantly turning the puck over in your own zone would be a good start towards getting more icetime. That line (and Laine is a huge part of it) has been a defensive liability lately. I am not gonna lie, in the last few minutes of the Tampa game I would myself wishing that the coach would doubleshift the Copp-Lowry-Tanev line instead of icing the 2nd line

 

[Howard Chuck]

This. In any other team he wouldnt even be on the team.

Exactly, who needs a 40 - 50 goal scorer on their team! Yeesh.

 

[Ducky10]

Certainly there have been multiple games where he has been the better player on this season. Mostly those when Wheeler was not at his best. Overall and usually Wheeler has been better, no doubt, but that is not something that has been truth every game.

As Laine is a LW, Wheeler is not the only one he could replace in the 1st line. And certainly in real results he has been better than Connor, Ehlers and even Perreault, though Perreault has been injured and in the dog house himself so I guess Perreault has been the best Jet in P/60.

Laine is a RW, you're going to have to come to terms with that, at least for the foreseeable future. There is no way his play in the D zone can support him playing the off wing. Maurice is doing him a favour in that respect.

 

[Ducky10]

Good post there, but just commenting on these above.

They can obviously switch sides at the o-zone and often does, but that means they do not only have to beat the D in skating competition, but they will also have significantly longer distance, which is like 200+ feet instead of some 170 feet. That is a serious handicap for them. Even for Ehlers that skates like a superman.

Secondly when they play so that Laine has to be on lowest position and almost every time that guy that chips the puck into o-zone, he can't use one of his greatest asset he had in FEL: getting pucks in full speed, making a zone entry and either trying to score or giving a scoring opportunity for his line mates.

Not sure what you're getting at in that first paragraph, wingers cross over many times a game coming out of their own end, basic weaves and cross ice attack options are taught in Pee Wee.

The second paragraph is a repeated myth around here, Laine is not being asked to be the last guy out of the zone, it just happens that way the majority of the time when the other team is pressuring and the puck comes up your wall. Who else is supposed to be there?

 

[Psych0dad]

Sounds like his attitude is much better than many of his biggest fans. I'm not surprised, I think he's a smart young guy who knows the importance of being a team player, especially at that age.

If the Jets paid me 3 million a year for brewing coffee, I'd wonder why because that's not what I can do best, but I wouldn't bite the hand that feeds and get a bad rep as a bonus.

My situation is different than his. He is on the inside, I'm on the outside looking in. That's one reason why the rhetoric is very different from fans than Laine.

I don't have to hold back on my criticism. He does.

 

[Ducky10]

If the Jets paid me 3 million a year for brewing coffee, I'd wonder why because that's not what I can do best, but I wouldn't bite the hand that feeds and get a bad rep as a bonus.

My situation is different than his. He is on the inside, I'm on the outside looking in. That's one reason why the rhetoric is very different from fans than Laine.

I don't have to hold back on my criticism. He does.

Again, your interpretation, stop passing it off as factual.

 

[Psych0dad]

The second paragraph is a repeated myth around here, Laine is not being asked to be the last guy out of the zone, it just happens that way the majority of the time when the other team is pressuring and the puck comes up your wall. Who else is supposed to be there?

Do you have any evidence to suggest it is not by design but just random variance that it almost always works like that?

You say it's a myth but I'm sure you know, I for one don't just take your opinion as a fact until it's proven

 

[Psych0dad]

Again, your interpretation, stop passing it off as factual.

What was my interpretation? Did I not state factual things?

 

[Gm0ney]

Matthews plays with Hyman (worse than Little) and Nylander (who is basically their Ehlers), only a little over 17 mins a game with no PP1 time and is absolutely killing it.

By saying that Laine needs more ice time and better linemates than Matthews the Laine fanboys here are basically admitting Matthews >>>> Laine AINEC.

Not being badly outshot in the last dozen or so games and not constantly turning the puck over in your own zone would be a good start towards getting more icetime. That line (and Laine is a huge part of it) has been a defensive liability lately. I am not gonna lie, in the last few minutes of the Tampa game I would myself wishing that the coach would doubleshift the Copp-Lowry-Tanev line instead of icing the 2nd line

I've noticed Matthews likes to establish himself in front of the net and let his wingers get the puck to him - and it leads to a lot of goals. It's not all he does, but he does it a lot and he's really good at it. So there's good chemistry and fit between Matthews, Hyman and Nylander. ELL seems to struggle because Ehlers likes to shoot, Little likes a simple north-south, drive to the net kind of game and Laine's often cast as the puck distributor, which isn't bad, but not his best asset...two shooters on the wings and a north-south center just doesn't click. Maurice's stubborn refusal to try anything else is just baffling.

 

[Psych0dad]

I've noticed Matthews likes to establish himself in front of the net and let his wingers get the puck to him - and it leads to a lot of goals. It's not all he does, but he does it a lot and he's really good at it. So there's good chemistry and fit between Matthews, Hyman and Nylander. ELL seems to struggle because Ehlers likes to shoot, Little likes a simple north-south, drive to the net kind of game and Laine's often cast as the puck distributor, which isn't bad, but not his best asset...two shooters on the wings and a north-south center just doesn't click. Maurice's stubborn refusal to try anything else is just baffling.

Bravo, this sums it up really well.

I don't get how some don't see chemistry issues, even glaring ones.

 

[Ducky10]

Do you have any evidence to suggest it is not by design but just random variance that it almost always works like that?

You say it's a myth but I'm sure you know, I for one don't just take your opinion as a fact until it's proven

Watching the games? It's common hockey knowledge, it makes little to no sense to ask a specific winger to be the last man out of the zone by design exclusively. Go ahead and find me a breakout system that describes this, I can find you plenty that won't.

Hockey doesn't work that way. I really don't care if you take my opinion as fact.

 

[Ducky10]

What was my interpretation? Did I not state factual things?

No, Laine being unhappy is not factual. Nor is suggesting he's holding back his criticism. It's your interpretation, that's all I have left to say, not going down this rabbit hole again.

 

[csk]

If you can't see a problem and a legit "obsession" then frankly you are not paying any attention. It's a total ****ing travesty and I can't think of another super talented guy like him getting shafted like this by any team. You seem to think it's fine, nothing to see here.

#85.

 

[Psych0dad]

No, Laine being unhappy is not factual. Nor is suggesting he's holding back his criticism. It's your interpretation, that's all I have left to say, not going down this rabbit hole again.

Yes, Laine being unhappy is an interpretation but it's directly derived from "Yes of course I would like more icetime". It's pretty clear to me he is unhappy with the amount because as he says he would like more. You might read that as happy.

Like expecting two scoops of ice cream but getting one. I mean...i like the one I have but I paid for two and nobody has explained why I only got one.

 

[Psych0dad]

#85.

I've been watching hockey for 30 years and can't recall a #85 that was generational/franchise level and got this treatment.

If you are talking about Perreault, yes he should also play in 1st but doesn't match the criteria I set in my post.

And yes, both of those awfully misused guys are misused by the same incompetent buffoon

 

[Ducky10]

I've been watching hockey for 30 years and can't recall a #85 that was generational/franchise level and got this treatment.

If you are talking about Perreault, yes he should also play in 1st but doesn't match the criteria I set in my post.

And yes, both of those awfully misused guys are misused by the same incompetent buffoon

Goal posts moved.

Well done.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

There are no guarantees in life. But the numbers he puts up with Chef suggests that it is more likely than not.

You can't get guarantees. Lack of guarantee should never be a reason not to try and make your team better. You try it and if it doesn't work, try something else. Of course that's not Maurice, he is sitting on this **** line for 40 games or so and counting.

And you are cheering him on

For me the likely hood is that if Laine played with Scheif that we would have similar results. In games that we won, some of them we would have won by more. We likely score more goals. I also think we probably give up more as well.
It's possible that this results in fewer points in the standings.

I'm cheering for my team who is winning, not obsessing over individual player statistics.

 

[Duke749]

Yes, Laine being unhappy is an interpretation but it's directly derived from "Yes of course I would like more icetime". It's pretty clear to me he is unhappy with the amount because as he says he would like more. You might read that as happy.

Like expecting two scoops of ice cream but getting one. I mean...i like the one I have but I paid for two and nobody has explained why I only got one.

How you don’t realize that interpreting “i want to play more” to being unhappy would mean 90-95% of professional athletes would be unhappy is truly beyond my own comprehension.