Player Discussion: Patrik Laine Part VIII: Eliitti! Mod Warning Post #571

[Keduzin]

As somebody who has been following Pate’s career and development wayyyyyy longer than probably any of you .... Maurice is using him simply in the worst possible way this season. Is it about getting him to make a contract below 10m/y ?, or is just some perverted plan to spare him for the playoffs ?
Pate is THE player in the Jets who can make the team achieve something special, and easily the most important piece, both of and on the ice ,Winnipeg has going forward.
By not letting him get enough of icetime the Jets are in for making a really bad mistake....

 

[204hockey]

As somebody who has been following Pate’s career and development wayyyyyy longer than probably any of you .... Maurice is using him simply in the worst possible way this season. Is it about getting him to make a contract below 10m/y ?, or is just some perverted plan to spare him for the playoffs ?
Pate is THE player in the Jets who can make the team achieve something special, and easily the most important piece, both of and on the ice ,Winnipeg has going forward.
By not letting him get enough of icetime the Jets are in for making a really bad mistake....

Maybe it's a plan t have him round out his game and learn to be better than he already is ?

 

[Keduzin]

No, Pate needs the icetime and the big minutes. He is not , and will never be a Barkov. This guy is something really genuine, he is THE clutch player when it comes down to it. By suffocating his icetime you are making him a Armia vol 2.

 

[RageQuit77]

Keduzin. But, but... doesn't that mean his G/60 will increase all the same with his diminishing minutes, as he is forced to make his magic in lesser time available? His efficiency per minute on ice is only going to rise.



Heh. If something, I hope he is at least fully utilized in PPs. Jets will score more goals that way, even then Pate himself wouldn't. Please, I don't have to explain the logic here.

 

[ps241]

This thread has jumped the Shark.

 

[Psych0dad]

Maybe it's a plan t have him round out his game and learn to be better than he already is ?

He could do that in the 1st line while potting 60 goals for the Jets this season.

He learns nothing except total lack of respect for Maurice this way.

It's a shit plan. You learn best with the best.

Might as well take him off PP and teach him to be a PK specialist instead. Maybe he should re-learn the goalie position? Any other great ideas Maurice?

 

[Gm0ney]

This thread has jumped the Shark.

I thought I saw you in here a month ago saying this!

I do sympathize with Laine fans, though. It feels like Maurice isn't deploying what might be the Jets' best asset properly - at least PoMo's got him on PP1 this year.

 

[Duke749]

As somebody who has been following Pate’s career and development wayyyyyy longer than probably any of you .... Maurice is using him simply in the worst possible way this season. Is it about getting him to make a contract below 10m/y ?, or is just some perverted plan to spare him for the playoffs ?
Pate is THE player in the Jets who can make the team achieve something special, and easily the most important piece, both of and on the ice ,Winnipeg has going forward.
By not letting him get enough of icetime the Jets are in for making a really bad mistake....

No, Pate needs the icetime and the big minutes. He is not , and will never be a Barkov. This guy is something really genuine, he is THE clutch player when it comes down to it. By suffocating his icetime you are making him a Armia vol 2.

Well this is quite the overreaction with some tin foil hat thrown in. Not to mention there are at least 3-4 Jets more valuable currently to the team(no it won’t always be like that, i know).

He could do that in the 1st line while potting 60 goals for the Jets this season.

He learns nothing except total lack of respect for Maurice this way.

It's a **** plan. You learn best with the best.

Might as well take him off PP and teach him to be a PK specialist instead. Maybe he should re-learn the goalie position? Any other great ideas Maurice?

Someone isn’t likely gonna learn much outside of scoring if they’re scoring 60. Not that Laine is at that level yet anyways.

Only person losing respect for Mo are extremely over enthusiastic Laine fans.

And yeh, you’re post is a gross overreaction as well. I mean, not like the one above but you’re a bit far from solid ground too.

 

[Keduzin]

I love the Jets and there is no other team in the NHL that I would rather see winning the cup. But after working with quite a lot of Finnish youngsters in hockey and the same agegroup as Laine I feel quite comfortable saying that the way the Jets are using him this season does not benefit at all the gem you have in Laine !

I really, REALLY, hope you make the playoffs and see for yourselves what Laine really can bring to the table! This guy is all about winning !

 

[Psych0dad]

Someone isn’t likely gonna learn much outside of scoring if they’re scoring 60. Not that Laine is at that level yet anyways.

Only person losing respect for Mo are extremely over enthusiastic Laine fans.

And yeh, you’re post is a gross overreaction as well. I mean, not like the one above but you’re a bit far from solid ground too.

How do you know if he is on that level yet? You don't.

I have good reason to assume he is but it won't be proven or disproven because Maurice.

To play more and in a bigger role develops a player more. He doesn't need to learn shutdown, he is the wrong guy to sacrifice to shutdown line because his offensive potential is by far highest of the team. And he is already good at shutdown at 19. His line is the best defensive line by stats. He has learned that shit already, now unleash him offensively.

It's monumental stupidity. But of course you are free to like it.

 

[Duke749]

How do you know if he is on that level yet? You don't.

I have good reason to assume he is nut it won't be proven or disproven because Maurice.

To play more and in a bigger role develops a player more. He doesn't need to learn shutdown, he is the wrong guy to sacrifice to shutdown line because his offensive potential is by far highest of the team.

It's monumental stupidity. But of course you are free to like it.

So you know just because. And i don’t because... you say so? Ok kiddo. Lol

 

[Psych0dad]

So you know just because. And i don’t because... you say so? Ok kiddo. Lol

I'm 41 kiddo.

I didn't say I know. His pace with Chef suggests it. Especially considering they are both better now than a year ago. It's based on factual numbers, not like yours which is just "nah, I don't think so".

Why do you think he could not reach 60 goals if he played the season from the start in 1st with Chef? He is gonna reach 40 with almost PP alone. Without 5 on 5 scoring. Because his line has no chemistry.

 

[ps241]

I thought I saw you in here a month ago saying this!

I do sympathize with Laine fans, though. It feels like Maurice isn't deploying what might be the Jets' best asset properly - at least PoMo's got him on PP1 this year.

Yea his 5v5 usage to this point has been suboptimal but this too shall pass. The amount of angst and hand wringing seems way over the top. Thank god Laine doesn’t play for Babcock look at how Marner and Nylander have been used up and down the line up this season. Babs loves to push buttons on the young guys and rarely stacks lines.

 

[Halberdier]

Yea his 5v5 usage to this point has been suboptimal but this too shall pass. The amount of angst and hand wringing seems way over the top. Thank god Laine doesn’t play for Babcock look at how Marner and Nylander have been used up and down the line up this season. Babs loves to push buttons on the young guys and rarely stacks lines.

That has been the case for almost the last 50 games for Laine. I'd say I have been quite patient given the situation. I personally have lost all my faith on sane moves by Maurice regarding the situation. Every other coach in NHL would at least give the CLW + ESL lines a short try of at least one period when we have been trailing the game and neither CSW nor ELL did work. Not Maurice. He is not doing that, as long as we are winning, like in the last 3 games before Canucks.

Fortunately due to the nihilistic defensive system by PoMo and huge amount of talent on this team F, D and finally also G department, we are mostly winning this season, and that's so great especially when you completely ruin your good night sleep (in Finland, anyeay) and it's so devastating when that ends up with a loss as was the case last season when the PO spot was still a possibility. It's OK to be at work tired if Jets played well and won, but not that much with a loss.

 

[Psych0dad]

Yeah I don't understand why we got LSW in pre-season and zero minutes in regular season. Of course I would prefer a different 1st line than that for depth reasons but PoMo was saying before the season when asked about that line that it was his plan for the season.

 

[JetsUK]

I think LSW and CLE likely helps both lines.

 

[KingBogo]

Yea his 5v5 usage to this point has been suboptimal but this too shall pass. The amount of angst and hand wringing seems way over the top. Thank god Laine doesn’t play for Babcock look at how Marner and Nylander have been used up and down the line up this season. Babs loves to push buttons on the young guys and rarely stacks lines.

Or Coach Q who would have him planted on the bench after some of those d-zone giveaways. As talented as Laine is, there are still holes in his game. He can score no doubt, and will continue to fill the net but he won't be that elite player until he can push possession and be a beast on the boards. Until then lots of PP offense and developing a complete game with a conservative defense first center 5-5 would be as good as he could hope for on most top level teams.

 

[winnipegger]

Scheif wasn't good at board work until like 23 years old. Just enjoy watching Laine there are a lot of years ahead of him. He doesn't have the experience or physical strength to make the most out of his unique toolbox. Being able to push people off of him is huge because he isn't an explosive skater like Mcdavid, who doesn't need to be strong to make the most out of his toolbox.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

This thread has jumped the Shark.

For our younger readers... no that is not Tortz.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

How do you know if he is on that level yet? You don't.

I have good reason to assume he is but it won't be proven or disproven because Maurice.

To play more and in a bigger role develops a player more. He doesn't need to learn shutdown, he is the wrong guy to sacrifice to shutdown line because his offensive potential is by far highest of the team. And he is already good at shutdown at 19. His line is the best defensive line by stats. He has learned that **** already, now unleash him offensively.

It's monumental stupidity. But of course you are free to like it.

I think Laine's view of the NHL is a bit more balanced then many of the posters here. I don't think he's going to hold his breath, stomp his feet and take his ball and go home because of the line combos.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the word was that his off season training was all based on a slow start and kicking things up in the 2nd half.

Maybe just maybe the Jets are planning around that.
Defensive play in the first half and PP beasting.
Roll with ESL or CSL in the 2nd half?

I would also love to see some Laine - Scheif games as it's fun and very enjoyable.
There is no one on the team that I get as excited for when they score as Laine.
But let's have patience.
If this makes him a more complete player in the long run great.
Playoff hockey in the NHL is unlike anything he would have experienced and focusing on nothing other than scoring would not necessarily be the best way to set him up for success in April.

Little has a lot more experience then Laine, Ehlers and Scheifele combined.
The kids can learn from him.
Scheifele needs defensive support still himself.

Last year was all about development, creating offense with the young talent.
This year the team has shifted to winning, that means doing the hard things.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Yeah I don't understand why we got LSW in pre-season and zero minutes in regular season. Of course I would prefer a different 1st line than that for depth reasons but PoMo was saying before the season when asked about that line that it was his plan for the season.

It would be fun to watch I think.
I don't recall them looking that good in those games.
That was when the Jets were icing near full NHL lineups and losing to teams of prospects and a few NHLers.

 

[ps241]

That has been the case for almost the last 50 games for Laine. I'd say I have been quite patient given the situation. I personally have lost all my faith on sane moves by Maurice regarding the situation. Every other coach in NHL would at least give the CLW + ESL lines a short try of at least one period when we have been trailing the game and neither CSW nor ELL did work. Not Maurice. He is not doing that, as long as we are winning, like in the last 3 games before Canucks.

Fortunately due to the nihilistic defensive system by PoMo and huge amount of talent on this team F, D and finally also G department, wre are mostly winning this season, and that's so great especially when you completely ruin your good night sleep (in Finland, anyeay) and it's so devastating when that ends up with a loss as was the case last season when the PO spot was still a possibility. It's OK to be at work tired if Jets played well and won, but not that much with a loss.

This is a fair post and I have no idea how you lose sleep to watch games. I like the bolded it makes me feel you are a Jets fan and enjoy the winning.

Full disclosure I am not a Maurice fan and would have liked an upgrade but I am trying to keep an open mind. In the past his usage of Trouba with Stu as one of many examples was just brutal. His usage of guys like Stu and Thor was maddening to me. However, when I lurk around other teams boards literally every fan base seems pissed off with how their coach deploys their line up.

So that brings me to this season and context of Maurice in the larger picture. I don’t like Laine’s usage 5v5. I don’t love Ehlers usage 5v5. I am fine with Little in his role trying to keep the line defensively sound. I love how Connor is being used...I think it’s really been good for the rookies development. Scheif and Wheels have produced. Our 3rd line has been a revelation and I did not see that coming?? I am not a fan of Hendricks playing every game but putting Matty P there has been great for Armi and that line is destroying match ups.

On D I love that Morrissey and Trouba are the top pair and get to play through the ups and downs that come with facing the best every night. Toby and Buff have always worked and Kuli and Myers have been fine.

Paul has made the right moves with goaltender usage but that is a hard to screw up when Helly is rolling.

I don’t like the PK set up but the previously much maligned power play has been really good so far so I will tip my hat.

As you mentioned there is allot of talent on this team so an average coach should be able to make it work. I think Paul has done allot of things right and some things wrong which is better than last season.

The fact the team is winning gives me more patience with some things that frustrate me about Paul. First and foremost I want results in the standings and a playoff berth. I would have no problem if Mo tinkered with the top 6 but Laine’s optimization in the short term isn’t causing me to lose sleep. Coaches always blend at some point so Patrik will just need to seize it when it happens. At least he is getting PP1 this season.

 

[JetsFan815]

Yea his 5v5 usage to this point has been suboptimal but this too shall pass. The amount of angst and hand wringing seems way over the top. Thank god Laine doesn’t play for Babcock look at how Marner and Nylander have been used up and down the line up this season. Babs loves to push buttons on the young guys and rarely stacks lines.

If Laine had been drafted by Columbus, Kekalainen would be stripped of his Finnish citizenship by now and they would be burning Torterella's effigies in the streets as by now Laine would have received more than one tongue lashing by Torts in the media, multiple stints on the bottom-6 and atleast a round or 2 in the pressbox.

That lines needs to hunker down in their own zone and the results will come from there.

 

[Psych0dad]

If Laine had been drafted by Columbus, Kekalainen would be stripped of his Finnish citizenship by now and they would be burning Torterella's effigies in the streets as by now Laine would have received more than one tongue lashing by Torts in the media, multiple stints on the bottom-6 and atleast a round or 2 in the pressbox.

That lines needs to hunker down in their own zone and the results will come from there.

Another one of those where we just assume what would happen in a hypothetical situation, and then use that baseless fantasy to justify what Maurice is doing as if it would definitely be worse elsewhere.

Could just as well claim that under Torts he would have had 80 goals in first 100 games and use that evaluation to point out Maurice is underutilizing him.

How much do they need to hunker down in their own end? They are the best defensive line of the Jets. What's wrong with others hunkering down a little more?

I don't see who it serves to use the wrong tools for the wrong job.

 

[Halberdier]

This is a fair post and I have no idea how you lose sleep to watch games. I like the bolded it makes me feel you are a Jets fan and enjoy the winning.

Full disclosure I am not a Maurice fan and would have liked an upgrade but I am trying to keep an open mind. In the past his usage of Trouba with Stu as one of many examples was just brutal. His usage of guys like Stu and Thor was maddening to me. However, when I lurk around other teams boards literally every fan base seems pissed off with how their coach deploys their line up.

So that brings me to this season and context of Maurice in the larger picture. I don’t like Laine’s usage 5v5. I don’t love Ehlers usage 5v5. I am fine with Little in his role trying to keep the line defensively sound. I love how Connor is being used...I think it’s really been good for the rookies development. Scheif and Wheels have produced. Our 3rd line has been a revelation and I did not see that coming?? I am not a fan of Hendricks playing every game but putting Matty P there has been great for Armi and that line is destroying match ups.

On D I love that Morrissey and Trouba are the top pair and get to play through the ups and downs that come with facing the best every night. Toby and Buff have always worked and Kuli and Myers have been fine.

Paul has made the right moves with goaltender usage but that is a hard to screw up when Helly is rolling.

I don’t like the PK set up but the previously much maligned power play has been really good so far so I will tip my hat.

As you mentioned there is allot of talent on this team so an average coach should be able to make it work. I think Paul has done allot of things right and some things wrong which is better than last season.

The fact the team is winning gives me more patience with some things that frustrate me about Paul. First and foremost I want results in the standings and a playoff berth. I would have no problem if Mo tinkered with the top 6 but Laine’s optimization in the short term isn’t causing me to lose sleep. Coaches always blend at some point so Patrik will just need to seize it when it happens. At least he is getting PP1 this season.

Good post. By losing the sleep I mean ruining the good night sleep. Games start at 2 AM Finnish more often than not. I usually do so that I wake up at 5 AM to watch recorded games, but last season I did wake up way too often in the middle of night just to watch how Jets looked good at 1st period, did not get rewarded and then lost the game due to attrocious defensive play, PK, PP and goaltending. That's something you will just hate when that happens over and over again.

I did not follow the games after the PO spot was gone. I was like "OK, now they are playing, but why?".