Player Discussion: Patrik Laine Part VIII: Eliitti! Mod Warning Post #571

[kelsier]

That has been the case for almost the last 50 games for Laine. I'd say I have been quite patient given the situation. I personally have lost all my faith on sane moves by Maurice regarding the situation. Every other coach in NHL would at least give the CLW + ESL lines a short try of at least one period when we have been trailing the game and neither CSW nor ELL did work. Not Maurice. He is not doing that, as long as we are winning, like in the last 3 games before Canucks.

Fortunately due to the nihilistic defensive system by PoMo and huge amount of talent on this team F, D and finally also G department, we are mostly winning this season, and that's so great especially when you completely ruin your good night sleep (in Finland, anyeay) and it's so devastating when that ends up with a loss as was the case last season when the PO spot was still a possibility. It's OK to be at work tired if Jets played well and won, but not that much with a loss.

This is a great post and a neat summary of what many of us are thinking. I have too given up on expecting anything earth shaking from Maurice. By now he could have shuffled the lines and at least given a try for Laine to actually get the prime minutes and see what he is capable of. I think most games he has played over 17 minutes have been games where he has been very good at. The inconsistent ice time brings up inconsistent numbers and affects to performance. So far, as I mentioned before I'm quite satisfied with how Patrik has been able to produce given the fact that every other game (if not more) he seems to play 13+ or 14+ minutes. There's no reason to expect any real changes (you know why) and in the end I think 17-18 will end up the worst single season from Laine. I hope by his third year there either is a shuffle in a top six where we see a) a combo of Laine & Scheifele b) Laine & Roslovic and in both cases, Laine actually being let to play his natural wing. Why he hasn't been given even a try in the last what 100+ games is rather nuts. I mean a coach can afford to give it a tryout in a situation like this. It certainly couldn't turn the line's effectiveness to any worse than it is.

I think historically speaking the winger & center combo is much much more important and effective as winger & winger. When The Jets will finally have that elite playmaker beside him I think the sky is the limit and we will get to see some crazy seasons and he will end up as one of the most lethal scorers in the game. We already got to see what Patrik was capable of when paired up with Scheifele last year and he was just 18 at the time. No way near his prime. This season should the pieces have fallen differently, there's no doubt in my mind he would be the front runner for the Rocket. Unfortunately you don't always get to see what you want. Just got to bite the tooth and let expectations go for the time being. So even though this could have been the year for him personally, there will be others. Needless to mention but if Maurice fails to deliver and the team drops out in the first round of the playoffs (just reaching the playoffs with a roster like this should not be the floor expectation) or by some miracle doesn't make it at all, I think we will get to see those hat tricks again rather sooner than later.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Laine actually being let to play his natural wing. Why he hasn't been given even a try in the last what 100+ games is rather nuts. I mean a coach can afford to give it a tryout in a situation like this. It certainly couldn't turn the line's effectiveness to any worse than it is.

Yes it could be worse if the line is scored against more.

ELL has been very good at keeping GA down. In the offensive zone the players move around and are free to attack in any way. It's just in his own zone that he needs to be on the right side. Given his recent struggles in this area I'm surprised people are jumping to put him in that position in his own end. Back hand flip clears are going to be way tougher than his forehand.

In looking back at the stats of the first 31 games from last year to compare to this year it's closer than most people would imagine.

16 - 17 Games 31 - G 17 A 8 P 25
17 - 18 Games 31 - G 15 A 11 P 26

It makes all the panic look kind of silly.
In 2016-17 he scored those points in 14 games (17 with nothing)
In 2017-18 he scored those points in 19 games (12 with nothing)

If anything he is being more consistent and I still think EVEN with the less than ideal 5 on 5 usage that he will have some multi goal games. I think he is much less likely to "slump" at the end of the year like he did in the season prior so we have every reason to think he will surpass his numbers from last year. (as he should)

At the end of the year all of this hand wringing may have been a little less warranted then people feel it is now.

 

[RageQuit77]

16 - 17 Games 31 - G 17 A 8 P 25
17 - 18 Games 31 - G 15 A 11 P 25

It makes all the panic look kind of silly.
In 2016-17 he scored those points in 14 games (17 with nothing)
In 2017-18 he scored those points in 19 games (12 with nothing)

One of reasons I've not been concerned at all. He IS more consistent scoring-wise.

 

[Psych0dad]

Yes it could be worse if the line is scored against more.

ELL has been very good at keeping GA down. In the offensive zone the players move around and are free to attack in any way. It's just in his own zone that he needs to be on the right side. Given his recent struggles in this area I'm surprised people are jumping to put him in that position in his own end. Back hand flip clears are going to be way tougher than his forehand.

In looking back at the stats of the first 31 games from last year to compare to this year it's closer than most people would imagine.

16 - 17 Games 31 - G 17 A 8 P 25
17 - 18 Games 31 - G 15 A 11 P 26

It makes all the panic look kind of silly.
In 2016-17 he scored those points in 14 games (17 with nothing)
In 2017-18 he scored those points in 19 games (12 with nothing)

If anything he is being more consistent and I still think EVEN with the less than ideal 5 on 5 usage that he will have some multi goal games. I think he is much less likely to "slump" at the end of the year like he did in the season prior so we have every reason to think he will surpass his numbers from last year. (as he should)

At the end of the year all of this hand wringing may have been a little less warranted then people feel it is now.

I think you're missing the point.

You'll be happy if he matches or beats his rookie season by a couple of points.

My point is, he is already capable of much, much more if not handcuffed. It shows in everything

 

[Halberdier]

In the offensive zone the players move around and are free to attack in any way. It's just in his own zone that he needs to be on the right side.

Good post there, but just commenting on these above.

They can obviously switch sides at the o-zone and often does, but that means they do not only have to beat the D in skating competition, but they will also have significantly longer distance, which is like 200+ feet instead of some 170 feet. That is a serious handicap for them. Even for Ehlers that skates like a superman.

Secondly when they play so that Laine has to be on lowest position and almost every time that guy that chips the puck into o-zone, he can't use one of his greatest asset he had in FEL: getting pucks in full speed, making a zone entry and either trying to score or giving a scoring opportunity for his line mates.

If he played like Ehlers is playing on his own end on those situations (== flying to the neutral zone) that handedness should not matter. Wheeler or other RW could do that job Laine is doing currently.

The only major problem I see here is that Jets are lacking depth on RW department and stacked up in LW department. So while LSW would be an optimal 1st line, 2nd line would probably not work with 2 out of 3 possible left wings (Ehlers, Connor and Perreault). That's one reason why the center swap (Scheifele <-> Little) would make most sense to me, even when Laine is not playing his optimal position.

 

[Aavco Cup]

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

I think you're missing the point.

You'll be happy if he matches or beats his rookie season by a couple of points.

My point is, he is already capable of much, much more if not handcuffed. It shows in everything

No I think he will likely end up 10 to 15 points ahead of where he was at season's end because he's likely to score more consistently and I believe he still has more hot streaks in him. That home stand in February could be a gold mine for him.

 

[Shaibu]

I think you're missing the point.

You'll be happy if he matches or beats his rookie season by a couple of points.

My point is, he is already capable of much, much more if not handcuffed. It shows in everything

Handcuffed? How?

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Good post there, but just commenting on these above.

They can obviously switch sides at the o-zone and often does, but that means they do not only have to beat the D in skating competition, but they will also have significantly longer distance, which is like 200+ feet instead of some 170 feet. That is a serious handicap for them. Even for Ehlers that skates like a superman.

Secondly when they play so that Laine has to be on lowest position and almost every time that guy that chips the puck into o-zone, he can't use one of his greatest asset he had in FEL: getting pucks in full speed, making a zone entry and either trying to score or giving a scoring opportunity for his line mates.

If he played like Ehlers is playing on his own end on those situations (== flying to the neutral zone) that handedness should not matter. Wheeler or other RW could do that job Laine is doing currently.

The only major problem I see here is that Jets are lacking depth on RW department and stacked up in LW department. So while LSW would be an optimal 1st line, 2nd line would probably not work with 2 out of 3 possible left wings (Ehlers, Connor and Perreault). That's one reason why the center swap (Scheifele <-> Little) would make most sense to me, even when Laine is not playing his optimal position.

I think Perrault-Little-Ehlers would be just fine as a line.
Even Connor-Little-Ehlers could be intersting.
Connor's speed and puck retrieval could help support Little.
I support the fact that you could make about 9 or 10 variations of the lines that would potentially be good.

Unless we have Roslovic (or Ehlers) playing RW then yes we have a shortage of top RW's. Wheeler and Armia are about it if Laine is not playing RW.

 

[Psych0dad]

No I think he will likely end up 10 to 15 points ahead of where he was at season's end because he's likely to score more consistently and I believe he still has more hot streaks in him. That home stand in February could be a gold mine for him.

That's about even keel with last season considering he lost 9 games then.

Had he played with Chef from the start of the year I'm guessing he would end up with 30+ more points than last season. And that is the production the Jets are currently leaving on the bench. So that's why handcuffed.

 

[Psych0dad]

Handcuffed? How?

Being used in a role in a line that doesn't get the best out of him.

Laine is, until he gets stronger and faster, a target player. You want to maximize his shots because that's the best weapon they have. It's not being maximized. It's held down

 

[gearmex]

Patrik Laine ihmettelee Iltalehdelle pientä peliaikaansa: ”Jotain on taustalla”

Now is first time in public Laine himself wonders why he cannot get more icetime...he say maybe there is something in the background for what reason.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

That's about even keel with last season considering he lost 9 games then.

Had he played with Chef from the start of the year I'm guessing he would end up with 30+ more points than last season. And that is the production the Jets are currently leaving on the bench. So that's why handcuffed.

No guarantee of that and no guarantee that the Jets win as many games.

 

[Psych0dad]

Patrik Laine ihmettelee Iltalehdelle pientä peliaikaansa: ”Jotain on taustalla”

Now is first time in public Laine himself wonders why he cannot get more icetime...he say maybe there is something in the background for what reason.

That should sound an alarm in the Jets office.

Laine is clearly unhappy with icetime and at the end it is mentioned that Maurice has not given him any reason for it.

His icetime has dropped a minute and a half from last season. He is better than he was last year. That doesn't make sense.

Article mentions he is 40th in NHL scoring. First 58 on the list play more minutes than him.

It's all kinds of f***ed.

 

[Psych0dad]

No guarantee of that and no guarantee that the Jets win as many games.

There are no guarantees in life. But the numbers he puts up with Chef suggests that it is more likely than not.

You can't get guarantees. Lack of guarantee should never be a reason not to try and make your team better. You try it and if it doesn't work, try something else. Of course that's not Maurice, he is sitting on this shit line for 40 games or so and counting.

And you are cheering him on

 

[kelsier]

Patrik Laine ihmettelee Iltalehdelle pientä peliaikaansa: ”Jotain on taustalla”

Now is first time in public Laine himself wonders why he cannot get more icetime...he say maybe there is something in the background for what reason.

Wuut! Finally. Don't think it took him 30 games to figure that out either. Laine does know his value and he has been doing exactly what he's told and yet plays 13 or 14 minute games. I'm glad to read this actually. The damned newspaper portal doesn't load up right now but there was something about TOI dropping by 1,5 minutes from last season. When a player publicly states these comments you get impression that his not happy, but then again why would he be. I never understood why Maurice first fed him with ice time and responsibility throughout the pre-season, then immediately when the real games begin he was left out of the top line. Some nasty stuff.

 

[armyjoe]

Or Coach Q who would have him planted on the bench after some of those d-zone giveaways. As talented as Laine is, there are still holes in his game. He can score no doubt, and will continue to fill the net but he won't be that elite player until he can push possession and be a beast on the boards. Until then lots of PP offense and developing a complete game with a conservative defense first center 5-5 would be as good as he could hope for on most top level teams.

This. In any other team he wouldnt even be on the team.

 

[Ducky10]

That should sound an alarm in the Jets office.

Laine is clearly unhappy with icetime and at the end it is mentioned that Maurice has not given him any reason for it.

His icetime has dropped a minute and a half from last season. He is better than he was last year. That doesn't make sense.

Article mentions he is 40th in NHL scoring. First 58 on the list play more minutes than him.

It's all kinds of ****ed.

Where is it clear he's unhappy? It's clear the article is written to suggest unhappiness, but not from Laine.

 

[Psych0dad]

Wuut! Finally. Don't think it took him 30 games to figure that out either. Laine does know his value and he has been doing exactly what he's told and yet plays 13 or 14 minute games. I'm glad to read this actually. The damned newspaper portal doesn't load up right now but there was something about TOI dropping by 1,5 minutes from last season. When a player publicly states these comments you get impression that his not happy, but then again why would he be. I never understood why Maurice first fed him with ice time and responsibility throughout the pre-season, then immediately when the real games begin he was left out of the top line. Some nasty stuff.

I bet we will hear this from KC next year when he gets the same treatment.

 

[Festinator]

Patrik Laine ihmettelee Iltalehdelle pientä peliaikaansa: ”Jotain on taustalla”

Now is first time in public Laine himself wonders why he cannot get more icetime...he say maybe there is something in the background for what reason.

"Laine has collected 26 ( 15 + 11 ) power points in 31 matches . He is the best scorer of the Jets and the third most powerful player Captain Blake Wheeler and the number one running back Mark Scheifele"

Lmao fantastic, Google translate you never fail to amuse me.

Also this is the answer is it not? If he's the "3rd most powerful player" behind Wheeler and Scheifele, and Wheeler happens to play the same position as him, he's going to get less ice time along with the rest of the 2nd line.

The reduced ice time is a combination of PoMo running the 4th line more, the fact that he matches our 3rd line up against opponents top lines sometimes, and the fact that he inexplicably still runs the first line into the ground with ice time.

Basically, every other line is chipping away slightly at the minutes the 2nd line would normally get, the biggest culprit and perhaps only unjustified one being the 1st line. No doubt they are the best line, but there's no reason to play them ridiculous minutes like they have been sometimes.


So ya, all stems back to Maurice and poor line management. What else is new. I'd rather of guys like Perreault, Little and Ehlers aren't complaining about it, Laine didn't either in all honesty.

 

[Psych0dad]

Where is it clear he's unhappy? It's clear the article is written to suggest unhappiness, but not from Laine.

He says of course he would want to play more.

That is a statement of not being happy with icetime.

Also states "I don't know why, there must be something behind it".

 

[sashalaine]

How I'd translate Laine's comments in the Iltalehti article mentioned above:

- You'd always like to play more.

- There's something behind that [the decreased TOI]. It could be sparing my energy or something else, I don't know.

- If my time on ice decreases, the coach doesn't have to explain it. It's the way it goes.

- You have to earn your ice time, whining doesn't help. Every time you go on the ice you just have to give all you've got and play better than you have earlier. I have however capitalized my scoring chances pretty well.

- Team succeeding is the most important thing, and we have done pretty well so far this year.​

 

[StiffSquid]

Where is it clear he's unhappy? It's clear the article is written to suggest unhappiness, but not from Laine.

Yeah Laine pretty much says that it is what it is , and that he has to play better to earn the ice time. Whoever wrote that article sounds like the guys here on this board lol. The obsession with Laine and his ice time is getting ridiculous.

 

[Psych0dad]

"Laine has collected 26 ( 15 + 11 ) power points in 31 matches . He is the best scorer of the Jets and the third most powerful player Captain Blake Wheeler and the number one running back Mark Scheifele"

Lmao fantastic, Google translate you never fail to amuse me.

Also this is the answer is it not? If he's the "3rd most powerful player" behind Wheeler and Scheifele, and Wheeler happens to play the same position as him, he's going to get less ice time along with the rest of the 2nd line.

The reduced ice time is a combination of PoMo running the 4th line more, the fact that he matches our 3rd line up against opponents top lines sometimes, and the fact that he inexplicably still runs the first line into the ground with ice time.

Basically, every other line is chipping away slightly at the minutes the 2nd line would normally get, the biggest culprit and perhaps only unjustified one being the 1st line. No doubt they are the best line, but there's no reason to play them ridiculous minutes like they have been sometimes.


So ya, all stems back to Maurice and poor line management. What else is new. I'd rather of guys like Perreault, Little and Ehlers aren't complaining about it, Laine didn't either in all honesty.

Well that translation gives you the wrong idea. It's not about powerful, it's about their points up to this moment. He is third behind Wheeler and Chef.

He would likely have more points if he played in Wheelers spot so saying that the point total gives you the right pecking order, is wrong on many levels.

 

[Festinator]

Well that translation gives you the wrong idea. It's not about powerful, it's about their points up to this moment. He is third behind Wheeler and Chef.

He would likely have more points if he played in Wheelers spot so saying that the point total gives you the right pecking order, is wrong on many levels.

Yeah I got what it was trying to say, I just found the translation funny. And Scheifele being the"running back" haha.