Speculation: Patrick Kane and Seth Jones future with Hawks

[Illinihockey]

Jones led the NHL in ice time last year.

He's a big, right hand shot that can quaterback the 1st PP unit.

He's also in his prime.

32 teams want that. (san jose not included)

You might have to sell him at .80 cents on the dollar but if he picked 5 teams that he would waive to go to you would get a haul back.

Congrats on being the most played player on one of the worst defenses in hockey. Never mistake activity for achievement.
They’d have to have that amount of cap space available. I bet the hawks would have to retain and take a bad salary back

 

[Sarava]

Congrats on being the most played player on one of the worst defenses in hockey. Never mistake activity for achievement.
They’d have to have that amount of cap space available. I bet the hawks would have to retain and take a bad salary back

Stan left them in a hole, and they have to do what they have to do to dig out of it. Who cares about eating a bad contract right now - since they aren't pushing the cap anytime soon.

The real question is - how much do you have to eat from Seth's deal to move him, and is it worth the return, since it will light you up for the full 8 years. The later probably 3-4 years of his contract are when you would need that capspace.

Does Seth bring a big return if you eat around 2.5 mil per, and offer him up at 7 mil per for 8 years? And with the cap promised to go up in the next few years, 2.5 mil might be somewhat insignificant even while the Hawks are ready to compete again?

 

[Wally1112pac]

Congrats on being the most played player on one of the worst defenses in hockey. Never mistake activity for achievement.
They’d have to have that amount of cap space available. I bet the hawks would have to retain and take a bad salary back

The point is Jones can handle the most minutes in the league. (his team sucks but that's not his fault) He has a ton of value. He makes 9.5 because ALL superstars do. If he said that he wanted out teams would line up to trade for him.

Taking salary back is a given. You would have to make the money work. The team doesn't have cap issues at the moment so that's not a problem.

Trading Jones with picks/prospects just to move him (like you said) would be a worse move then what we gave to acquire him. You act like he has negative value because of his cap hit.

 

[Illinihockey]

The point is Jones can handle the most minutes in the league. (his team sucks but that's not his fault) He has a ton of value. He makes 9.5 because ALL superstars do. If he said that he wanted out teams would line up to trade for him.

Taking salary back is a given. You would have to make the money work. The team doesn't have cap issues at the moment so that's not a problem.

Trading Jones with picks/prospects just to move him (like you said) would be a worse move then what we gave to acquire him. You act like he has negative value because of his cap hit.

He is not a superstar. If he was the hawks wouldn’t have been so terrible. That is the point. The hawks don’t need cap space now but 8 years is a long time to be eating dead money. He absolutely has negative value with that contract.

Stan left them in a hole, and they have to do what they have to do to dig out of it. Who cares about eating a bad contract right now - since they aren't pushing the cap anytime soon.

The real question is - how much do you have to eat from Seth's deal to move him, and is it worth the return, since it will light you up for the full 8 years. The later probably 3-4 years of his contract are when you would need that capspace.

Does Seth bring a big return if you eat around 2.5 mil per, and offer him up at 7 mil per for 8 years? And with the cap promised to go up in the next few years, 2.5 mil might be somewhat insignificant even while the Hawks are ready to compete again?

Right if things go well you’ll need room to make moves in 3 seasons. You’d still be eating money for 5 more years. I feel like you can’t trust the NHL cap projections at all. 8 years from now won’t they be under a new CBA? Who knows what happens then

 

[Salvaged Ship]

Toews and Kane have earned the right to choose what they want to do, and obviously with their contracts they have that right. This team is going to be dreadful, without those 2 big names there is also zero reason to pay money to attend a Hawks game. Pay NHL prices to watch a glorified not so good AHL level team, and with $30 parking to boot?

What the hell has happened to this franchise, its like the goal was to turn it from a 3 time cup winner to a 4th place AHL team. Absolute disaster, never heard of a 7 year rebuilding plan. This is hockey, drafts are an absolute crap shoot and even if the player ends up good he is years away from being an NHL caliber player. Complete tanking, getting rid of every possible asset for draft picks even if they are young, it’s idiotic.

 

[hawksrule]

Toews and Kane have earned the right to choose what they want to do, and obviously with their contracts they have that right. This team is going to be dreadful, without those 2 big names there is also zero reason to pay money to attend a Hawks game. Pay NHL prices to watch a glorified not so good AHL level team, and with $30 parking to boot?

What the hell has happened to this franchise, its like the goal was to turn it from a 3 time cup winner to a 4th place AHL team. Absolute disaster, never heard of a 7 year rebuilding plan. This is hockey, drafts are an absolute crap shoot and even if the player ends up good he is years away from being an NHL caliber player. Complete tanking, getting rid of every possible asset for draft picks even if they are young, it’s idiotic.

There’s no reason to pay money to see this team even with those two big names there.

 

[Kevin Musto]

there is also zero reason to pay money to attend a Hawks game. Pay NHL prices to watch a glorified not so good AHL level team, and with $30 parking to boot?

You'll change your tune when LuRich has Ian Mitchell playing Norris caliber defense

 

[Mrfenn92]

You'll change your tune when LuRich has Ian Mitchell playing Norris caliber defense

Hard to do that in Rockford

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Was that report about Kane agent planning to talk with Hawks brass ever confirmed?

I mean at the very least I suspect Hawks management to speak to Kane/Toews about situation and what plan is

If both desire to be moved Hawks will look to accommodate (Retaining salary is very much in play for both)

As far as Jones he is going to be face of franchise during bad years. He has to know he has no way out with that contract and situation is what it is

Jones will be the Ivan Boldirev of this era of Hawk hockey. A good player likely to waste away years of his career on mediocre/bad teams and be mostly forgotten because of it

​

 

[Mrfenn92]

Was that report about Kane agent planning to talk with Hawks brass ever confirmed?

I mean at the very least I suspect Hawks management to speak to Kane/Toews about situation and what plan is

If both desire to be moved Hawks will look to accommodate (Retaining salary is very much in play for both)

Was confirmed Twitter wise. Who knows where it goes.

 

[EddieTheEagle]

No idea if Kane would go there but is NJ a fit?

If they lose out on Gaudreau, they could use a winger to bolster that lineup. They may want to try to take that next big step and Kane helps in a big way. The Devils have the cap and the assets to make it happen. Thoughts? What’s a decent value? 2023 1st + Prospect? I mean, we all wanted more for Cat, so it is hard to judge.

 

[RayP]

No idea if Kane would go there but is NJ a fit?

If they lose out on Gaudreau, they could use a winger to bolster that lineup. They may want to try to take that next big step and Kane helps in a big way. The Devils have the cap and the assets to make it happen. Thoughts? What’s a decent value? 2023 1st + Prospect? I mean, we all wanted more for Cat, so it is hard to judge.

Does Kane waive for NJ? Doubt it.

Does NJ have interest in a guy like Kane who is a UFA after one season? Also doubt it.

 

[Kevin Musto]

No idea if Kane would go there but is NJ a fit?

If they lose out on Gaudreau, they could use a winger to bolster that lineup. They may want to try to take that next big step and Kane helps in a big way. The Devils have the cap and the assets to make it happen. Thoughts? What’s a decent value? 2023 1st + Prospect? I mean, we all wanted more for Cat, so it is hard to judge.

The issue is Kane's 1 year left until UFA.

A team that is a cup contender will pay for that. But if you're New Jersey, who isn't there yet, you'll want more term on Kane. So they're probably not coughing up a lot of assets unless there's an agreement in place for an extension.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Isles would make more sense than Devils

Isles need an impact forward to bolster offense on wing and have some interesting assets

Hawks would have to retain on Kane and likely would target 2023 1st as primary piece back

Kane (50% retained) for 2023 1st + prosect (I would hope Raty) is probably best-case trade scenario

May need to retain less but get cap dump back from a few other potential Kane fits

Ultimately though Kane controls things and can limit market for him

 

[EddieTheEagle]

Totally a fair assessment. I think we have to look at taking on late(ish) 1st 2023s and prospects that are a bit buried on contending teams, or “reclamation projects” like Kakko, Turcotte, etc.

Who else has a gaping hole on the right wing?

 

[ColbyChaos]

If we are trading Kaner, we need to get a 23 first and multiple additional assets. Something like this?




- Patrick Kane, with retention



- 2023 unprotected first
- 2023 3rd
- 2024 2nd
- Tyler Boucher
- Ridley Greig
- Tyler Kleven

& - Matt Murray & Travis Harmonic cap dumps.

Taking on Matt Murray with Mrazek already sounds horrible, so I'm not sure about that. But that's why Ottawa sends all those prospects.

If we didn’t get any of those for cat I doubt we will for Kane.

Also feel like we shouldn’t take any of Ottawa’s dumps at this point as it is only space for them to re sign DeBrincat next year

 

[RayP]

Too bad Cal Petersen took a step backwards last year otherwise Kane with retention would wash out Quick's contract more or less and then load on the picks/prospects. Can't see LA going into the season with Petersen as their number 1.

 

[hockeydoug]

Jones still has tremendous value. He's going to have alot of very good years left and most playoff teams have contracts they would love to get rid off. I don't think Chicago has to retain salary to move him for a quality return.

Kane is getting picks and 2nd tier prospects imo. Teams with Gaudreau or Cat types at the wing aren't trading for Kane as they'll want a chance to retain him.

Toews is going to cost assets to move. You can't intangible your way out of not trusting linemates for the last several seasons. I don't think good teams want to tie up 5+. Given how Davidson has managed to NOT use capspace well in trade the last 4 months, I can't imagine he'll pull off a 3 way trade (2 retentions) to get anything more than a late 2nd for Toews.

I hope Kane and Toews ask for a move ASAP but I think they'll stay. I think the worst thing for the franchise would be to dump Toews for a 354th overall pick and crap prospects as they move Kane in a Chelios-like deadline swap. It would leave some expensive scars for decades. Sales and the ability to recruit free agents and staff are an asset just like picks, I hope the rookie gm doesn't forget that.

Whatever happens, I just hope it happens by Sept 1.

 

[hawksfan50]

You throw conditionals as part of any Kane deal..


Price:

1st rounder (unprotected) 2023 + either 2 prospects or 1 prospect and a 2nd rounder (23 or 24) PLUS a conditional 2024 orc2025 1st if he is extended OR if the team getting him gets to the Cup Final..

You must throwxa conditionals extra first to the proposition.

It shoukd beca haul.

He us a cheap rental or if extended by that team he sees notvobe but several Cuobrubs yet and us silkibg to give sone kind of discount to extend for that situation.

The Hawks have made it so untenable that Kane woukd want to stY for a tank sesdon and maybec55 l-60 losses (not fun( and the Hawjs owing hom so little more in cash afterthey pay his bonus ,I cannotcsee why he woukd want to stay.

If he stays his rental price at TDL woukd be less than itvis now ..butvyou need to find a team with cap space ...who can contend if they add hon,abd who are willing to pay for extending hom to get thus max kind of return...

These are hard trade oartners to find.

So you need to look at team's cap thiscomingvseaon,and goibgvforward next season and theircdraftcstick of future picks andctgeirvlijelihoodcof being in a position to contend ifvthey add hom as their "missing piece".

Somebody mentioned Dallas...but hekoingvDakjas hurts us because we own the Dallas 3rdcroubder in the 2023 draft and tgat is like a 2nd rounder from thec2022 draft.You do not want to move tgat pick up to the ladt or final pick of roundc3 next year...ratger you hope Dallas falls closer to May 1qth orz12th worst team..
Us...you want Kabe not in the Central Division for years more *if extended).

So first a team expected to contend in tge Easter Cobferebce or at least Oacifific Division in the Western Confefence.


Sure Jane may ieefercto go home to Buffalo but are they ready to contend?

Does L A. I the Oacific Div have caovroon to extend .him?

It is not easy to find a trade oartner.

Obviously NYR woukd be a orime candidate if they can manage the xao to extend hom.

Florida Panthers?

What is their cap going forward.

Carolina seems always about to contendxandvtgeyvcoud use scoring but never do they pay to the cap..

Notcaclotvofvoptions.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I think we can get a protected 2023 with simple protection (Top 3 protection for instance)

It really shouldn't be issue because Kane if traded will go to a contender and unless a disaster befalls team, we trade him to they likely won't be picking anywhere close to top of draft

 

[nmgrbhfn]

Kane for Sam Girard and Colorado's 2023 first and 2025 second. Gerard I think doesn't fit into the Av's plans so moving him would represent significant salary relief for the Avs.

 

[EbonyRaptor]

Kane for Sam Girard and Colorado's 2023 first and 2025 second. Gerard I think doesn't fit into the Av's plans so moving him would represent significant salary relief for the Avs.

Why do you think Girard doesn't fit into the Av's plans? He seems ideally suited for the puck moving d-man the Avs have like Makar, Toews, Byram.

 

[JoeKudia]

I still think the rumored kakko deal with NYR makes the most sense for both sides.

 

[Mrfenn92]

I still think the rumored kakko deal with NYR makes the most sense for both sides.

What’s the rumored deal?

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Jones still has tremendous value. He's going to have alot of very good years left and most playoff teams have contracts they would love to get rid off. I don't think Chicago has to retain salary to move him for a quality return.

Kane is getting picks and 2nd tier prospects imo. Teams with Gaudreau or Cat types at the wing aren't trading for Kane as they'll want a chance to retain him.

Toews is going to cost assets to move. You can't intangible your way out of not trusting linemates for the last several seasons. I don't think good teams want to tie up 5+. Given how Davidson has managed to NOT use capspace well in trade the last 4 months, I can't imagine he'll pull off a 3 way trade (2 retentions) to get anything more than a late 2nd for Toews.

I hope Kane and Toews ask for a move ASAP but I think they'll stay. I think the worst thing for the franchise would be to dump Toews for a 354th overall pick and crap prospects as they move Kane in a Chelios-like deadline swap. It would leave some expensive scars for decades. Sales and the ability to recruit free agents and staff are an asset just like picks, I hope the rookie gm doesn't forget that.

Whatever happens, I just hope it happens by Sept 1.

See this is why I'd target players like Kakko and Turcotte in a Kane deal. They aren't going to get that much upside in anyone else they'd acquire. Will those guys turn it around? Probably not, but it's worth the risk on the 20% chance they live up to their draft potential. Even at worst, those guys will probably be valuable 3rd liners, which is what you'd hope to get in a late 1st rounder.