Confirmed with Link: Pascal Vincent Named Head Coach

[stevo61]

Just a thought....

Perhaps the defensive system Vincent is trying to implement reflects a complete lack of confidence in his goaltending.

Seems to be putting a strain on it. I think the goal is to give up the outside and low danger chances while protecting the middle but they get way too wide and teams can dissect it with a couple passes

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Are we doing the Vegas Box and 1 or are we doing our own twist?

 

[Cheddarcheese]

looks like its box + 1. but maybe with more skates it will become a little more complex/advance ?

 

[majormajor]

I can't tell what's supposed to be going on in our zone, or whether it's a personnel mismatch or what. But it's odd we don't utilize the stretch pass. It's a big part of the counterattack for teams like Florida and Vegas. And we have the horses for it, a lot of speed we're not using.

The way we collapse defensively we might as well do it with 4 players and let the 5th go high, it will at least push their D back. Right now opponents are all getting in tight on us and their D are getting in to closer more dangerous scoring areas.

 

[Seedtype]

Well, hopefully we'll see some adjustments with the defense zone strategy soon.

Early in the first period when Florida was all over us, you think the team was on a 5 on 3 penalty kill and someone just lost their stick, heh.

 

[Forepar]

My take, for what it's worth, is that I've got an overall negative opinion of Jarmo, so I can see the head coach sharing that opinion.

So you ARE Pazzy!!!!!
Needed a little bit of levity today. lol.

Not a response to you, but this learning curve thing highlights the mismatch of talent to system, at least for the D.
A prior post mentioned that Guddy looks good in this turtling D system (or whatever it is).
That's fine, and I could see Peeke and 50% of Provorov being ok in it.
But Z, Severson, Bean, Boquist, et al, they are puck essentially puck movers, ill-cast for the current system.
Not saying the system is wrong or that it is not needed at least as stopgap until a more complex system is integrated, but it would explain some of the play of those D. And I say 50% Provorov because the more I watch him, the more I think he could handle up-tempo up-pressure style and the more I like him on the CBJ roster.

If this system really is about lack of trust in goalies, then CBJ is screwed. I know a priority is to cut down on goals against (it needs to happen), but unless you are also able to turn your talent loose this team will be 4-5-3 every twelve games and finish with 70+ points, while at the same time not properly developing ANYONE. The only player with high skill who seems to not be shackled - of all players, Fantilli, the rookie. Maybe Roslovic, but that burst seems to be slowing already. The weird thing is that they've looked aggressive in some high-powered games (NYR especially), but the recent stretch looks to be passive again. Not effort-related, just passive on D and passive on offense too.

It's too early to get worried about Pazzy - had no doubt it would take 20 games (and probably getting Laine back) before the play within "the system" gets better and true development can be observed (or not observed). But it sure is frustrating to watch right now, as the "best" players are not the best players.
And players like Guddy are shining. That's good for Guddy but not good for the team overall if the tradeoff is struggles for JG, Z, KJ, Severson (I sure hope he's not as bad as he has looked early), etc.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

So you ARE Pazzy!!!!!
Needed a little bit of levity today. lol.

Not a response to you, but this learning curve thing highlights the mismatch of talent to system, at least for the D.
A prior post mentioned that Guddy looks good in this turtling D system (or whatever it is).
That's fine, and I could see Peeke and 50% of Provorov being ok in it.
But Z, Severson, Bean, Boquist, et al, they are puck essentially puck movers, ill-cast for the current system.
Not saying the system is wrong or that it is not needed at least as stopgap until a more complex system is integrated, but it would explain some of the play of those D. And I say 50% Provorov because the more I watch him, the more I think he could handle up-tempo up-pressure style and the more I like him on the CBJ roster.

If this system really is about lack of trust in goalies, then CBJ is screwed. I know a priority is to cut down on goals against (it needs to happen), but unless you are also able to turn your talent loose this team will be 4-5-3 every twelve games and finish with 70+ points, while at the same time not properly developing ANYONE. The only player with high skill who seems to not be shackled - of all players, Fantilli, the rookie. Maybe Roslovic, but that burst seems to be slowing already. The weird thing is that they've looked aggressive in some high-powered games (NYR especially), but the recent stretch looks to be passive again. Not effort-related, just passive on D and passive on offense too.

It's too early to get worried about Pazzy - had no doubt it would take 20 games (and probably getting Laine back) before the play within "the system" gets better and true development can be observed (or not observed). But it sure is frustrating to watch right now, as the "best" players are not the best players.
And players like Guddy are shining. That's good for Guddy but not good for the team overall if the tradeoff is struggles for JG, Z, KJ, Severson (I sure hope he's not as bad as he has looked early), etc.

As a devils fan, I got bad news for you...

 

[Cheddarcheese]

So you ARE Pazzy!!!!!
Needed a little bit of levity today. lol.

Not a response to you, but this learning curve thing highlights the mismatch of talent to system, at least for the D.
A prior post mentioned that Guddy looks good in this turtling D system (or whatever it is).
That's fine, and I could see Peeke and 50% of Provorov being ok in it.
But Z, Severson, Bean, Boquist, et al, they are puck essentially puck movers, ill-cast for the current system.
Not saying the system is wrong or that it is not needed at least as stopgap until a more complex system is integrated, but it would explain some of the play of those D. And I say 50% Provorov because the more I watch him, the more I think he could handle up-tempo up-pressure style and the more I like him on the CBJ roster.

If this system really is about lack of trust in goalies, then CBJ is screwed. I know a priority is to cut down on goals against (it needs to happen), but unless you are also able to turn your talent loose this team will be 4-5-3 every twelve games and finish with 70+ points, while at the same time not properly developing ANYONE. The only player with high skill who seems to not be shackled - of all players, Fantilli, the rookie. Maybe Roslovic, but that burst seems to be slowing already. The weird thing is that they've looked aggressive in some high-powered games (NYR especially), but the recent stretch looks to be passive again. Not effort-related, just passive on D and passive on offense too.

It's too early to get worried about Pazzy - had no doubt it would take 20 games (and probably getting Laine back) before the play within "the system" gets better and true development can be observed (or not observed). But it sure is frustrating to watch right now, as the "best" players are not the best players.
And players like Guddy are shining. That's good for Guddy but not good for the team overall if the tradeoff is struggles for JG, Z, KJ, Severson (I sure hope he's not as bad as he has looked early), etc.

you couldn't be more wrong our team is young and he's playing the most simple defensive system to protect them not the goalie...

box + 1


The main benefits to the box + 1 are that you almost always have defensive help in the prime scoring area should you get beat. If you are the RD and lose a puck battle or miss a check, you have backup at your position. It’s a relatively safe defensive zone system

he drawbacks are that it’s often a low pressure system. It can be hard to pressure the puck and cause a turnover because you generally only send one man at a time. This system also requires discipline, meaning you really have to hold your zone and positioning. It breaks down when the wrong person chases the puck, or chases it too far without resetting. It relies on the next teammate over being in the right place and switching at the right time.

Even in a breakdown, provided only 1 player misses his assignment, there should still be plenty of defensive support from the other players. Generally you’ll see a box+1 breakdown on a long cycle followed by some quick puck movement after the first breakdown. In general, it’s a low risk defensive zone system that helps cover for breakdowns a little better than man on man

i get why were playing this system with all our young kids but i dont understand why we are playing this system and letting our d be so active in the offence zone

 

[Farmboy Patty]

Seems to be putting a strain on it. I think the goal is to give up the outside and low danger chances while protecting the middle but they get way too wide and teams can dissect it with a couple passes

That was Paul Maurice’s D system with the Jets and it worked pretty well although they were bleeding shorts in the D zone. They also have Helleybyuck stonewalling the opponents.

 

[Michigan Magic]

No matter. When Jarmo gets canned, coach will be out to.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

We'd be doing much better if we had made a deal with Nashville to get Barry Trotz as our coach. The team has to regret not doing so.

 

[squashmaple]

We'd be doing much better if we had made a deal with Nashville to get Barry Trotz as our coach. The team has to regret not doing so.

That was never an option. Trotz wanted to move to upper management. He was never coming here to be a coach.

 

[DankoCBJ]

Poor results are not Vincents fault. Our roster is so green and our best players are not playing like our best players that what can you expect other than losses.

 

[CBJ goalie]

No matter. When Jarmo gets canned, coach will be out to.

No, they can't be like the Oilers and switch coaches every year.
Imagine if Colorado gave up on Bednar when they were struggling?

 

[Cheddarcheese]

would have been interesting if we got Patrick Roy i heard he was the runner up

 

[Forepar]

you couldn't be more wrong our team is young and he's playing the most simple defensive system to protect them not the goalie...

box + 1


The main benefits to the box + 1 are that you almost always have defensive help in the prime scoring area should you get beat. If you are the RD and lose a puck battle or miss a check, you have backup at your position. It’s a relatively safe defensive zone system

he drawbacks are that it’s often a low pressure system. It can be hard to pressure the puck and cause a turnover because you generally only send one man at a time. This system also requires discipline, meaning you really have to hold your zone and positioning. It breaks down when the wrong person chases the puck, or chases it too far without resetting. It relies on the next teammate over being in the right place and switching at the right time.

Even in a breakdown, provided only 1 player misses his assignment, there should still be plenty of defensive support from the other players. Generally you’ll see a box+1 breakdown on a long cycle followed by some quick puck movement after the first breakdown. In general, it’s a low risk defensive zone system that helps cover for breakdowns a little better than man on man

i get why were playing this system with all our young kids but i dont understand why we are playing this system and letting our d be so active in the offence zone

Other than Jiricek, no young D that need protected. If the vet D are that bad on defense, that’s a whole different story. And some of them might be!
If the concept is more to protect young forwards in the D zone, then I get it, but is that truly developing the younger players?
I don’t know the answer, but protection of younger players, to me, usually means sheltered minutes and/or sheltered matchups. Playing a D system that in the long run isn’t the winning system that you intend to play seems counterproductive to development to me. And if changing to more aggressive D system system results in giving up 6-7 goals on some nights: a) this season was/is about development, not W-L; b) losing games 7-5 with some development would still be better than losing 4-2 (ignoring EN goals); c) let’s find out whether we have a goalie (not promising, but got to know); and d) the offensive “stars,” while not playing well, are stifled by the current system.
If someone can show me how playing this system enhances development, I’ll listen, but I don’t see that happening. Our best players are already Fantilli line using this system. Turn them loose a little more (a few more minutes and aggressive system) and see how they do?

 

[Cheddarcheese]

Other than Jiricek, no young D that need protected. If the vet D are that bad on defense, that’s a whole different story. And some of them might be!
If the concept is more to protect young forwards in the D zone, then I get it, but is that truly developing the younger players?
I don’t know the answer, but protection of younger players, to me, usually means sheltered minutes and/or sheltered matchups. Playing a D system that in the long run isn’t the winning system that you intend to play seems counterproductive to development to me. And if changing to more aggressive D system system results in giving up 6-7 goals on some nights: a) this season was/is about development, not W-L; b) losing games 7-5 with some development would still be better than losing 4-2 (ignoring EN goals); c) let’s find out whether we have a goalie (not promising, but got to know); and d) the offensive “stars,” while not playing well, are stifled by the current system.
If someone can show me how playing this system enhances development, I’ll listen, but I don’t see that happening. Our best players are already Fantilli line using this system. Turn them loose a little more (a few more minutes and aggressive system) and see how they do?

this is a very basic system and can become more complex. which i would imagine we will see with more reps ( time )

 

[EspenK]

That was never an option. Trotz wanted to move to upper management. He was never coming here to be a coach.

Don't try to counter arguments with facts. It is a losing proposition.

 

[CBJx614]

We'd be doing much better if we had made a deal with Nashville to get Barry Trotz as our coach. The team has to regret not doing so.

And I'd be doing much better if I won the lottery but you can't just wish things into being.

 

[Michigan Magic]

No, they can't be like the Oilers and switch coaches every year.
Imagine if Colorado gave up on Bednar when they were struggling?

So we have to wait through another season or two of this. Somebody's going to have to blow this thing up and get people motivated to play here or get them out. Im glad I'm not a season ticket holder. I wouldn't pay all that money year after year to watch this excrement.
It's all right though. There's plenty of good prospect games on.

 

[Michigan Magic]

I actually don't blame this on the coach, the players, or GM. I blame the owner(s). When they're tired of just getting a return on they're investment, that's when things will change around here.
Fans want a Cup! Owners want $$$$.

 

[Marioesque]

So we have to wait through another season or two of this. .

Yeah, not winning the cup this season I don't think. Did you expect that?

I see a lot of improvement in the team and internal competition that will keep it fresh.
We're looking like NJ did 2 seasons ago. Goalie situation unknown, young team full of talent but not ripe for success yet.

I think the team can make the playoffs this season, they've held on pretty well at the start of the season, considering how new the lineup is and how Patty has been missing for a bit. A lot of those 1 goal games could have gone the other way if he had been around, especially OT games. We'll see how it starts shaping up now, who solidifies their spots. It should lead to a more cohesive experience later in season if we avoid the injury slide

 

[ColumbusTrill]

I actually don't blame this on the coach, the players, or GM. I blame the owner(s). When they're tired of just getting a return on they're investment, that's when things will change around here.
Fans want a Cup! Owners want $$$$.

It was either this week or last week but Friedman said on 32 thoughts that McConnell is one of the most desirable owners in the league to work for because he doesn't interfere with management at all

 

[squashmaple]

Yeah, not winning the cup this season I don't think. Did you expect that?

I see a lot of improvement in the team and internal competition that will keep it fresh.
We're looking like NJ did 2 seasons ago. Goalie situation unknown, young team full of talent but not ripe for success yet.

I think the team can make the playoffs this season, they've held on pretty well at the start of the season, considering how new the lineup is and how Patty has been missing for a bit. A lot of those 1 goal games could have gone the other way if he had been around, especially OT games. We'll see how it starts shaping up now, who solidifies their spots. It should lead to a more cohesive experience later in season if we avoid the injury slide

New Jersey two years ago finished fifth worst in the league and lucked into the second overall pick (albeit in a weak draft, and that player has yet to play in the NHL). I certainly hope the Jackets can do better than that this year. But yes, I do agree with the jist of your comment. I just think a closer comparison is the 2017-18 Avalanche, who scraped into the playoffs by the skin of their teeth as the last wildcard by a single point over the Blues and promptly got stomped by the Preds in the first round. But they did that after setting the modern worst record the season before and missing the playoffs since 2014. I don't see this Jackets team quite achieving 95 pts and a playoff berth like those Avalanche did, especially considering how overall balanced the East seems to be. But even 80-85 points for this team after how horrible they were last season is a win for me.

As I keep saying, good can come later. Let's work on competent first. Competent doesnt necessarily mean wins, just progress. And I am not discouraged in that sense by what I've seen so far this season.

 

[Michigan Magic]

Yeah, not winning the cup this season I don't think. Did you expect that?

I see a lot of improvement in the team and internal competition that will keep it fresh.
We're looking like NJ did 2 seasons ago. Goalie situation unknown, young team full of talent but not ripe for success yet.

I think the team can make the playoffs this season, they've held on pretty well at the start of the season, considering how new the lineup is and how Patty has been missing for a bit. A lot of those 1 goal games could have gone the other way if he had been around, especially OT games. We'll see how it starts shaping up now, who solidifies their spots. It should lead to a more cohesive experience later in season if we avoid the injury slide

I didn't expect a Cup. You're stupid if you did. But I expected something better than last year because its more of the same.
I'm not looking at Laine to be the savior of this team. Too injured. Too inconsistent.
I'll put my money on Marchenko and Voronokov.