Proposal: Parayko for ROR

[Sempiternal]

I think Colton Parayko's next team is the Edmonton Oilers.

 

[Canovin]

I think Colton Parayko's next team is the Edmonton Oilers.

Either through trade but most definitely through free agency

 

[Dbrownss]

I cant speak for the schenn deal, but either way, it sounds like there's nothing on the table that helps Buffalo more than just holding ROR. The untouchables list is too long. You'll go bid on Tavares or Thornton, seems like.

Yea the pieces people would want from Stl are players the Blues need going into next season. I dont see DA being short sighted going into next year.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

Either through trade but most definitely through free agency

Gonna be awhile for free agency...

 

[Gabrielor]

Turris was immediately signed to a 6 year extension, Nashville doesn't make that deal if they're not +90% sure they can secure years of team control. Turris is a lesser player than ROR, but he also cost quite a bit less than the futures package like I proposed.

Duchene trade was a rather large overpay. Comparable player in terms of what he brings on the ice IMO (better offensively than ROR but worse defensively...both great on the dot). Duchene still had basically 2 years left on his deal when he was traded tho, that's less than ROR'5, but still quite a bit of team control and I'm certain at the time Ottawa was planning to re-sign him.

Neither team acquiring Duchene/Turris gave up a prospect anywhere near Thomas in value. Girard was probably the best piece, and both Thomas and Dunn are worth more now than he was at the time IMO.

OReilly’s current position is nothing like Duchene. We don’t need to trade him, and we don’t need to accept low ball offers.

The OP is a Blues fan, you came to us. In reality, teams are calling Botterill about OReilly, not the reverse. If you aren’t willing to pay a top asset, then there’s no deal.

I respect blues fans wanting to hold onto prime assets. Afford buffalo fans the same courtesy.

 

[stl76]

OReilly’s current position is nothing like Duchene. We don’t need to trade him, and we don’t need to accept low ball offers.

The OP is a Blues fan, you came to us. In reality, teams are calling Botterill about OReilly, not the reverse. If you aren’t willing to pay a top asset, then there’s no deal.

I respect blues fans wanting to hold onto prime assets. Afford buffalo fans the same courtesy.

Dunn is the definition of a prime asset. And for the record, I did not explicitly say "no" to Dunn + Kyrou in a deal, 2 undeniably top assets.

Dunn + 1st + good prospect/young roster player + good veteran roster player is NOT a low ball offer.

If Buffalo fans are not interested in trading ROR, then I can respect that. He's a great player and I don't blame anyone for not wanting to trade him.

What I have a harder time respecting is this "we have the upper hand in negotiations, so meet my asking price or I'll take my ball and go home" attitude that some have been adopting.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

ROR for a 7th rounder. Done. Be happy St. Louis

 

[Colt55]

You're asking for a proven 1C and don't want to give up any valuable assets... You're in a dream world kid.

I am not asking for ror. But i am not giving up a proven 1d 25 year old stud or a future 1c with cost control up for ror. If you want a first a good prospect and a good player to even out the money then we can talk if not then there is nothing left to say.

 

[Colt55]

Either through trade but most definitely through free agency

 

[steinerecliner]

Why is everyone thinking the Blues are trading Parayko a guy who we just gave a long term contract too? Yes we need a Center but we are not going to give up a core defensive player for it. We have two big ??? at Defense to start the season. With Boumeester and Gunnarson coming off major surgeries. After this year them along with Bortuzzo become free agents. So moving him sure fixes the Center issue but creates a whole new whole on defense.

 

[TheGoldenGod]

Why do people keep making threads including Colton Parayko?

There hasn't been one reputable source claiming the Blues have made him available.

Not one.

 

[is the answer jesus]

If I had a dollar for every time I've written something similar to "nobody expects a player like ROR to come cheap," I could retire tomorrow. Please spare me the "I'll just take my ball and go home if the deal isn't massively in my favor" bull****. It's not constructive or conducive to a meaningful discussion.

Go look at what Duchene and Turris returned, there are recent comparable transactions with which it is possible to establish a market value for ROR. The package I proposed is similar in value to what Duchene returned (maybe slightly less), and without a doubt greater than what Turris returned. The contract situations MIGHT make ROR slightly more valuable (depending on if you think 7.5 is an overpay), but the Duchene trade was also widely seen as an overpay by Ottawa and Turris was immediately signed to a long contract. Nashville doesn't pay what they did for Turris without believing they can re-sign him long term.

So what would Buffalo return for a "guaranteed in his prime 1st line center?" Well, about the going market rate. 3 high quality young cost controlled pieces and a quality veteran signed for 2 more years at a position of need. Circle back to Parayko all you want, it isn't happening.

So you realize "Ryan O'Reilly won't come cheap", but your top 2 prospects are off the table, and your good young defenseman in Parayko is off the table, but you'll generously trade a young 2nd pairing guy and a bunch of scraps for O'Reilly. How generous of you.
Also your comparables suck. Turris was an impending UFA that Ottawa had no intention of keeping and the Sens are a joke of an organization. Duchene had 2 years left on his deal and the relationship between him and Colorado had become toxic. You glossed over one of the most important parts. O'Reilly is in his prime and is locked up at a fair market price for 5 more seasons. Your paying for that. There's nothing "slight" about the value that adds. This isn't a yard sale where we just want to get rid our junk and will take pennies on the dollar. So if you want the best center that's been available in several years, that's in his prime with 5 years of term you'll have to pay a significant price. It was rumored the asking price was similar to the Richards package (which does seem a bit steep), but even if that's the case these offers are a fraction of the value that LA gave up in that deal. It's not me taking my ball and going home, it's trying to have an honest discussion with you about value. Personally I'm fine with keeping O'Reilly, he's been awesome for us, everything I hoped for and then some.

 

[AvatarAang]

Why do people keep making threads including Colton Parayko?

There hasn't been one reputable source claiming the Blues have made him available.

Not one.

Probably the same reason people keep posting trades asking for your team's best player for ROR even though he only got traded for Zadorov.

Pretty crazy to think that because your team won the lottery, a player that is older than your team's core is now available for 10x the asking price because he wins a few more faceoffs per year since he left the Avs.

 

[Beerz]

Probably the same reason people keep posting trades asking for your team's best player for ROR even though he only got traded for Zadorov.

Pretty crazy to think that because your team won the lottery, a player that is older than your team's core is now available for 10x the asking price because he wins a few more faceoffs per year since he left the Avs.

Keep posting. You make me laugh.

 

[stl76]

So you realize "Ryan O'Reilly won't come cheap", but your top 2 prospects are off the table, and your good young defenseman in Parayko is off the table, but you'll generously trade a young 2nd pairing guy and a bunch of scraps for O'Reilly. How generous of you.
Also your comparables suck. Turris was an impending UFA that Ottawa had no intention of keeping and the Sens are a joke of an organization. Duchene had 2 years left on his deal and the relationship between him and Colorado had become toxic. You glossed over one of the most important parts. O'Reilly is in his prime and is locked up at a fair market price for 5 more seasons. Your paying for that. There's nothing "slight" about the value that adds. This isn't a yard sale where we just want to get rid our junk and will take pennies on the dollar. So if you want the best center that's been available in several years, that's in his prime with 5 years of term you'll have to pay a significant price. It was rumored the asking price was similar to the Richards package (which does seem a bit steep), but even if that's the case these offers are a fraction of the value that LA gave up in that deal. It's not me taking my ball and going home, it's trying to have an honest discussion with you about value. Personally I'm fine with keeping O'Reilly, he's been awesome for us, everything I hoped for and then some.

I never said the Blues' top 2 prospects are off the table, please stop putting words in my mouth. In fact, specifically when I responded to YOUR post, I said, "Not saying Kyrou is off limits for a player of ROR's quality...but Kyrou + Dunn is an enormous ask." I went out of my way to compliment your player and did not close the door to Kyrou being part of the deal. What more do you want?

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/parayko-for-ror.2504123/page-4#post-147018593

Your gross mischaracterization of the offer I made is disappointing. Nobody is offering scraps, trying to get rid of junk, or trying to turn three quarters into a dollar. I am not a Montreal fan offering Pacioretty + Lindgren. I made an honest attempt to understand Buffalo's needs then structure a deal accordingly.

You call this trying to have an honest discussion about value? Because frankly, you see to be getting upset and resorting to snarky comments and sarcasm. If you actually want to have an honest discussion of value, I would suggest starting by looking at recent market comparables and then add/subtract value to the deal based on how the players/situations differ from ROR/his current situation.

 

[Dbrownss]

Why is everyone thinking the Blues are trading Parayko a guy who we just gave a long term contract too? Yes we need a Center but we are not going to give up a core defensive player for it. We have two big ??? at Defense to start the season. With Boumeester and Gunnarson coming off major surgeries. After this year them along with Bortuzzo become free agents. So moving him sure fixes the Center issue but creates a whole new whole on defense.

Why do people keep making threads including Colton Parayko?

There hasn't been one reputable source claiming the Blues have made him available.

Not one.

To be fair...this was started by a Blues fan

 

[TheGoldenGod]

To be fair...this was started by a Blues fan

Way to keep it fair my man

 

[67Blues]

ROR for a 7th rounder. Done. Be happy St. Louis

Hold on, not so fast. In what year?

 

[is the answer jesus]

I never said the Blues' top 2 prospects are off the table, please stop putting words in my mouth. In fact, specifically when I responded to YOUR post, I said, "Not saying Kyrou is off limits for a player of ROR's quality...but Kyrou + Dunn is an enormous ask." I went out of my way to compliment your player and did not close the door to Kyrou being part of the deal. What more do you want?

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/parayko-for-ror.2504123/page-4#post-147018593

Your gross mischaracterization of the offer I made is disappointing. Nobody is offering scraps, trying to get rid of junk, or trying to turn three quarters into a dollar. I am not a Montreal fan offering Pacioretty + Lindgren. I made an honest attempt to understand Buffalo's needs then structure a deal accordingly.

You call this trying to have an honest discussion about value? Because frankly, you see to be getting upset and resorting to snarky comments and sarcasm. If you actually want to have an honest discussion of value, I would suggest starting by looking at recent market comparables and then add/subtract value to the deal based on how the players/situations differ from ROR/his current situation.

Legitimately my bad on your response on my counter offer of Dunn and Kyrou. You didn't immediately dismiss it. I had you mixed up with other Blues fans in the thread. I do believe you are off base with your comparables. Turris and Duchene aren't comparable for the reasons I laid out. It's tough to find comparables because 1st line centers with term in their prime are so rarely moved. Jordan Staal went for an 8th overall pick, a good young middle 6 player in Sutter, and a decent defensive prospect in Dumolin after refusing to sign an extension with Pittsburgh. Good defensive player, has nowhere near the offensive game O'Reilly has. More of a 2C type. Derek Stepan a #2C in his prime with 4 years of term landed a 7th overall pick with a swap of a prospect and a goalie. Again nowhere near the player O'Reilly is defensively, offensively a notch below. Mike Richards a #1 C with superior offensive ability with a ton of term that is also elite defensively landed A very good young player in Simmonds, the best prospect in hockey, and a 2nd. The value lies somwhere between those players and Richards leaning towards Richards. So Dunn is the good young player with promise like Simmonds, Kyrou is a good prospect, but not in the conversation for the best prospect in hockey. So Kyrou<<<Schenn. No 2nd round pick included in the deal. There's where the value comes from.

 

[Dbrownss]

Way to keep it fair my man

Why are you being snarky about it...a regular Blues fan offered up Parayko in a trade....this isnt the typical Parayko to Toronto thread

 

[TheGoldenGod]

Why are you being snarky about it...a regular Blues fan offered up Parayko in a trade....this isnt the typical Parayko to Toronto thread

Ohhhhh now I gotcha. Thanks

 

[BleedBlue14]

ROR for a 7th rounder. Done. Be happy St. Louis

Too much salary coming back. Not sure I like that deal for STL

 

[Spektre]

I started the thread as one idea that might merit discussion with the base being Parayko and ROR. It’s just an idea. I guess I’ll never understand or relate to posters who seem to take these ideas personally. At the end you could have two fan bases and neutral commentators agree with a hypothetical idea or not. I want to make sure all participants realize if every single poster agrees to any of these ideas they don’t persuade real life events. Knowing that little fact should allow people to keep their emotions out of the discussion.

For the record I think I’d ask for the Buffalo 2nd this year to be added on the deal. I think the 2nd helps even the value for taking Bogosian.

 

[Dominicr]

That cost controlled 5 years of ROR is very valuable especially with the cap going up. He eats Dzone starts for breakfast, wins tons of draws and puts up very respectable #'s on a low scoring team despite his defense heavy usage. This is a very valuable player and I don't see why Botteril would have motivation to move him. I understand the ask being both high and restricted to things Buffalo actually needs and not the collection of futures that Doug Armstrong would be offering from the Blues. Too bad because he would be a great add here in STL, basically a younger, better Stastny.

The other thing ROR is good at is helping his team get lottery picks then bailing on them

 

[sfvega]

Hard no. Parayko just has too much value to us and to the rest of the league. If you deal him, it has to be for a slam dunk #1C and O'Reilly offensively isn't better than Schenn. Defensively, of course. But our need at 1C has very much been going back to Turgeon has been an offensive C. I don't buy into the offensive-biased mindset that seems rampant on boards like these and especially this board, but we've needed a franchise offensive 1C forever. Stastny was very good defensively and solid offensively. Backes was very good defensively and good offensively. I think ROR is better than Stastny, Backes, and by a little bit Schenn. But it seems like a desperate overpay to move Parayko for another 1A center. That we're gonna move a guy who could concievably get you about as much as some team's franchise player, and maybe (probably) STILL not get the one thing we want. Parayko and paying out 7.5 mil for a good while is a painfully steep price. Not the player or cost I would want. I totally understand Sabres fans wanting an overpay, but if they want an overpay I'd suggest calling Montreal.

Now Dunn and Kyrou, I'd do. Not preferable, but fair value and fills our need. Thomas, no. Thomas is too young, his upside is too high. Robbing Peter to pay Paul situation. We finally have a center to be excited about and we're gonna deal him for a guy that is steady and well-rounded. Ok.....