Panthers Fire Entire Sales Staff

[CoolburnIsGone]

These conversations with the county are an annual thing. This team has been going back to the county for over a decade (going back to Cohen years) asking for relief. It's not a Cohen, Viner, Viola thing its a bad business model thing.

Well yes but Viner was originally part of the group that purchased the team from Huzienga so he was always involved (though in much smaller part) when it was the Cohen-era. Also, yearly or not, the common denominator in those years was Yormark, for better or worse. I was just pointing out that has been something that Yormark was always working on with the county and was with prior ownership moreso than what appears like new ownership asking for money.

This team has and will continuously lose millions and millions of dollars. They are the largest welfare recipients from the NHL revenue share and are consistently in the bottom in overall revenues. After all, there is a reason Viola is the 4th ownership group in the last 10 years!!!

The team continues to lose money but the arena still makes money. So the owners of the team, who also operate the arena, often end up at least breaking even or close to it. There just often isnt enough money to make it a profitable business as much. And no Viola is NOT the 4th ownership group in the last 10 yrs...the team was sold to the group headed by Cohen in 2002 (which included Viner), Viner & Siegel were part of that group and bought-out Cohen in 2009 (with the league wanting a singular owner so Viner had to take on a majority stake) but the group basically stayed intact and then it was sold last yr to Viola, making it 3 majority owners but really just 2 ownership groups.

 

[JP Mick]

you can quote it in that Panthers thread if you wish, but you'll just be wasting your time.

people will only hear what they want to hear. Canadians want their team in their way, logic won't stop them from keeping their dream.

as they say, false hope is better than no hope.

Not all Canadians are that ignorant, but I'm sure you knew that already.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

These conversations with the county are an annual thing. This team has been going back to the county for over a decade (going back to Cohen years) asking for relief. It's not a Cohen, Viner, Viola thing its a bad business model thing.

This team has and will continuously lose millions and millions of dollars. They are the largest welfare recipients from the NHL revenue share and are consistently in the bottom in overall revenues. After all, there is a reason Viola is the 4th ownership group in the last 10 years!!!

In regards to the NHL and Bettman, this is not a strategic market for the NHL, what he did with awarding the draft and potentially all-star game is put a band aid on a gunshot wound. Which is what the NHL does in these types of situations, Atlanta was in ICU for almost a decade before the plug was pulled. The same effort will be put into here or any other market for that matter. An unstable franchise is not good for business.

The welfare argument isn't legit. People always say if you move the Panthers and Coyotes the cap would go up and revenue sharing would be less. That wouldn't be the case. Dallas and Carolina would just become the next Florida and Arizona, you move them it would be Colorado and Columbus. Not every team can compete salary wise. Atlanta died because the owners had arena rights and could kick the Thrashers out. Not the case here. And I agree with Flapanthers fan, I don't think they'd be moved without a huge fight from the County. I also (though it's hard for me) have to believe Bettman wouldn't hire an owner who would give up on them so easily.

Not all Canadians are that ignorant, but I'm sure you knew that already.

I agree, but some of the comments are fairly upsetting. The way they talk about how the Panthers and Coyotes will soon be moved with no regard for the fans there... It's pretty hypocritical, don't they remember the pain they went through 20 years ago? Some of the posts on the business forum are pretty awful.

 

[RCDeltaFixer]

The welfare argument isn't legit. People always say if you move the Panthers and Coyotes the cap would go up and revenue sharing would be less. That wouldn't be the case. Dallas and Carolina would just become the next Florida and Arizona, you move them it would be Colorado and Columbus. Not every team can compete salary wise. Atlanta died because the owners had arena rights and could kick the Thrashers out. Not the case here. And I agree with Flapanthers fan, I don't think they'd be moved without a huge fight from the County. I also (though it's hard for me) have to believe Bettman wouldn't hire an owner who would give up on them so easily.



I agree, but some of the comments are fairly upsetting. The way they talk about how the Panthers and Coyotes will soon be moved with no regard for the fans there... It's pretty hypocritical, don't they remember the pain they went through 20 years ago? Some of the posts on the business forum are pretty awful.

This part, this part is what gets me the most when I hear the "move 'em to Quebec/Seattle" chirps. Its easy for them to say stuff like that, when they're in a market like Toronto or Montreal, where the team will be there for as long as the NHL exists. Look, we're all fans here. We enjoy the sport and our team tremendously (well, maybe not recently ). Nobody, and I mean nobody, whether you're in the middle of the desert or in the heart of Canada, deserves to have their favorite team taken away from them. Does it happen? Of course. I don't think we'll be in a situation like that. Basically every single decision for the next 5-6 years would have to be absolutely horrible for talks of relocation were to begin.

 

[Big Bjugs]

It's alright, we don't consider ourselves Canadians either

Yeah, I went to some game in Montréal and Toronto, so damn expensive. I was lucky though, I went to see them when the Leafs and Habs were out of the playoff and I managed to get some tickets for less than 60$ in the nosebleed.

The worst though is the ridiculously low amount of Panthers merchandise in the HoF store. They didn't have the new jersey during the summer they changed it. Then last summer they only had Weiss jerseys when it was fairly clear he was not coming back... I won't even bother this summer.

Well jeez now that I know that I apologize.

I feel you on the lack of merchandise. I went to Jerseycity.com last year and looked online and they didn't have ONE single panther jersey yet all 29 other teams. I had to go to the store itself and order a Huberdeau and Barkov jersey. Of course they looked at me like I was high on glue, one clerk even said "omg a Florida Panthers fan, they do exist."

Long story short they weren't sure if they could even get Panthers jersey so he had to call his rep, blah blah... It took 6 weeks for the jersey's(without a name) to arrive and another 2 weeks to send it off and get the names on them.

 

[Drugs Delaney]

I'm not really into the business side of hockey but this has been fun to read. I just have a question: is there anything that this franchise does well?

 

[Drugs Delaney]

I also have had problems finding Florida Panthers Apparel anywhere other than the NHL online store.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

I'm not really into the business side of hockey but this has been fun to read. I just have a question: is there anything that this franchise does well?

Aside from losing you mean ? No, but the one thing that's overblown imo are the complaints about the in game experience. Aside from everything being sponsored, it's not any different than most teams, right down to the crappy music.

I also have had problems finding Florida Panthers Apparel anywhere other than the NHL online store.

The same applies for most, if not all Sunbelt teams. Some northern teams too. I was in Ohio a couple days, I saw nothing Jackets related in any stores.

 

[Drugs Delaney]

It just blows my mind that any business can survive when they don't do anything well. That's why I don't usually get into discussions like this.

 

[SeasonTicket]

This thread was about firing the sales staff. Selling Season tickets for this team must be an impossible task to ask anyone to do. Either Vinny's expectations are extremely high or this was a house cleaning of the old management mindset.

I have a question though.

The marketing strategy of this team has been in the past to sell heavy to the snowbirds. Come and see your favorite team while your on vacation at a fraction of what you would pay back home. Attendance goes from what about 7000 per game in Oct and Nov to about 15000 in Jan, Feb and Mar.

So my question is,

Without those snowbirds would this franchise be here?

Do we have enough home fans in South Florida to sell too without the visitors fans?

 

[Crossbar]

It just blows my mind that any business can survive when they don't do anything well. That's why I don't usually get into discussions like this.

Likewise.

 

[RCDeltaFixer]

This thread was about firing the sales staff. Selling Season tickets for this team must be an impossible task to ask anyone to do. Either Vinny's expectations are extremely high or this was a house cleaning of the old management mindset.

I have a question though.

The marketing strategy of this team has been in the past to sell heavy to the snowbirds. Come and see your favorite team while your on vacation at a fraction of what you would pay back home. Attendance goes from what about 7000 per game in Oct and Nov to about 15000 in Jan, Feb and Mar.

So my question is,

Without those snowbirds would this franchise be here?

Do we have enough home fans in South Florida to sell too without the visitors fans?

Yes. If the Panthers were a perennial playoff team, or even won a Cup, there would be a lot more fans from this area. I don't even think its a question. People here will pay money to go watch a team do successful even if they aren't huge fans of the sport. See: the Miami Heat.

 

[Surge101]

This part, this part is what gets me the most when I hear the "move 'em to Quebec/Seattle" chirps. Its easy for them to say stuff like that, when they're in a market like Toronto or Montreal, where the team will be there for as long as the NHL exists. Look, we're all fans here. We enjoy the sport and our team tremendously (well, maybe not recently ). Nobody, and I mean nobody, whether you're in the middle of the desert or in the heart of Canada, deserves to have their favorite team taken away from them. Does it happen? Of course. I don't think we'll be in a situation like that. Basically every single decision for the next 5-6 years would have to be absolutely horrible for talks of relocation were to begin.

I'm a Habs fan, but I live in Florida and I do support the Panthers. I go to around 10 Panthers games a year and I would be incredibly sad if they moved.

 

[EnforceTheLaus]

The same applies for most, if not all Sunbelt teams. Some northern teams too. I was in Ohio a couple days, I saw nothing Jackets related in any stores.

I'm also thinking that comes from the complexity of the logo. Don't get me wrong I love the Cats' logo but I feel like there needs to some change. Nothing to drastic, but really to simplify it. That or the team needs to really push the secondary logo.

 

[angry_treefrog]

I'm also thinking that comes from the complexity of the logo. Don't get me wrong I love the Cats' logo but I feel like there needs to some change. Nothing to drastic, but really to simplify it. That or the team needs to really push the secondary logo.

When you can't push merchandise based on the teams success, the fact that you have a poorly thought out logo does not help.

It looks ok on a jersey when it's large, but it makes a poor logo on just about anything else.

It's just too busy to be shrunken down.

 

[JP Mick]

I'm also thinking that comes from the complexity of the logo. Don't get me wrong I love the Cats' logo but I feel like there needs to some change. Nothing to drastic, but really to simplify it. That or the team needs to really push the secondary logo.

How about this?

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

^I saw that before, it's fantastic

This thread was about firing the sales staff. Selling Season tickets for this team must be an impossible task to ask anyone to do. Either Vinny's expectations are extremely high or this was a house cleaning of the old management mindset.

I have a question though.

The marketing strategy of this team has been in the past to sell heavy to the snowbirds. Come and see your favorite team while your on vacation at a fraction of what you would pay back home. Attendance goes from what about 7000 per game in Oct and Nov to about 15000 in Jan, Feb and Mar.

So my question is,

Without those snowbirds would this franchise be here?

Do we have enough home fans in South Florida to sell too without the visitors fans?

Yes. If the Panthers were a perennial playoff team, or even won a Cup, there would be a lot more fans from this area. I don't even think its a question. People here will pay money to go watch a team do successful even if they aren't huge fans of the sport. See: the Miami Heat.

If this team makes the playoffs 2-3 consecutive years and still draws like they do, I'll be blunt, the market has proven it should not have a team. I really doubt this would be the case though.

 

[RCDeltaFixer]

I'm a Habs fan, but I live in Florida and I do support the Panthers. I go to around 10 Panthers games a year and I would be incredibly sad if they moved.

I'm glad there are people like you. In general, I tend to avoid going to home games against the Habs because of their fans. However, there are an abundance of nice Habs fans that are great to talk to.

 

[I am not exposed]

This thread was about firing the sales staff. Selling Season tickets for this team must be an impossible task to ask anyone to do. Either Vinny's expectations are extremely high or this was a house cleaning of the old management mindset.

I have a question though.

The marketing strategy of this team has been in the past to sell heavy to the snowbirds. Come and see your favorite team while your on vacation at a fraction of what you would pay back home. Attendance goes from what about 7000 per game in Oct and Nov to about 15000 in Jan, Feb and Mar.

So my question is,

Without those snowbirds would this franchise be here?

Do we have enough home fans in South Florida to sell too without the visitors fans?

Is it really that low! I thought 10,000 was around the lowest. With an average of 13000.

 

[RCDeltaFixer]

Is it really that low! I thought 10,000 was around the lowest. With an average of 13000.

7000 is a bit of an exaggeration.

 

[FlaPnthrsPunk]

Is it really that low! I thought 10,000 was around the lowest. With an average of 13000.

That is more realistic. It's amazing what a winning team will do to sports fans down here. In '12-'13, we averaged just under 17,000 per game due to making the playoffs the year prior. However, that season we didn't make the playoffs and the attendance dropped quite a bit last season.

Back in October 2003, I remember going to a Panthers game during the National League Championship with the Marlins playing the Cubs. The announced attendance number was around 9,500, but maybe half that showed up because most people wanted to watch the Marlins game. Those same Marlins that had 75,000 fans in the seats per game during the playoffs but averaged 21,000 per game during the regular season.

I have no doubt in my mind once a consistent winning team is on the ice, people will show up in large numbers. Just see the 2012 playoffs for example. Right now, the casual fan cares about the Heat because they're winning and in damn good form. Unless you're a diehard fan like pretty much all of us are or get cheap or free tickets, you're not going to attend a game.

 

[I am not exposed]

That is more realistic. It's amazing what a winning team will do to sports fans down here. In '12-'13, we averaged just under 17,000 per game due to making the playoffs the year prior. However, that season we didn't make the playoffs and the attendance dropped quite a bit last season.

Back in October 2003, I remember going to a Panthers game during the National League Championship with the Marlins playing the Cubs. The announced attendance number was around 9,500, but maybe half that showed up because most people wanted to watch the Marlins game. Those same Marlins that had 75,000 fans in the seats per game during the playoffs but averaged 21,000 per game during the regular season.

I have no doubt in my mind once a consistent winning team is on the ice, people will show up in large numbers. Just see the 2012 playoffs for example. Right now, the casual fan cares about the Heat because they're winning and in damn good form. Unless you're a diehard fan like pretty much all of us are or get cheap or free tickets, you're not going to attend a game.

Weren't a lot of fans put off recently because of a substantial hike in parking fees?

As in the season after we made the playoffs, they saw an opportunity with the increased attendance to make more money with extra fees in certain areas. But that had the negative effect of people being pissed off paying these extra charges, whilst seeing a sub stand product on the ice for the lockout season. Which was then continued with last season.

 

[Surge101]

I'm also thinking that comes from the complexity of the logo. Don't get me wrong I love the Cats' logo but I feel like there needs to some change. Nothing to drastic, but really to simplify it. That or the team needs to really push the secondary logo.

Huh?
I've always thought the Panthers have the best logo.
and the 90s uniforms were the best uniforms.
In fact i've been on a hunt to pick up a 90s starter panthers jersey.

 

[RCDeltaFixer]

Huh?
I've always thought the Panthers have the best logo.
and the 90s uniforms were the best uniforms.
In fact i've been on a hunt to pick up a 90s starter panthers jersey.

I like the Panther's jersey. I think merch will become more readily available when the team starts to do better.

 

[SeasonTicket]

7000 is a bit of an exaggeration.

What is the actual real attendance numbers when all the promo free tickets are taken out of the equation.

Gimmicks don't count. No freebees in the big markets.