Panthers Fire Entire Sales Staff

[I am not exposed]

the matter of the fact is yes canadian markets do better, but the american market is where the money is. If the NHL were to sucessfully crack the florida market, the panthers would be more profitable than any canadian team(except the leafs). Refer to the Miami Dolphins and the Heat. The american market is where the NHL wants its teams. So i can assure you the NHL will not let the panthers leave. The NHL wants the panthers to be a perennial make the playoffs and exit first round team, according to my buddy working for them.(obviously they want the top 4 markets in the cup)

The Heat are doing great financially. But the Dolphins? And the poor Marlins. And the Panthers

Still one of those teams is not like the others atm.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

The only thing to worry about right now is the vote for more funding. I'd say it's 65-35 they get it, and if so, that should give another 2-3 years before the next crisis at least. Of course since the money they're asking the County to pay off is the money that's owed on the lease, a pro relocationist will argue that it makes them even closer to moving, since they would no longer have to pay to leave. I disagree because I don't think Viola would legally be allowed to lead the County astray like that, and getting more money should be viewed only as a positive.

 

[Dr Beinfest]

The Heat are doing great financially. But the Dolphins? And the poor Marlins. And the Panthers

Still one of those teams is not like the others atm.

The Marlins don't do poor financially in a Lehman sense.

They do well financially but that's because the evil animal known as Loria pockets everything that's supposed to be a subsidy for competitive balance.

As for the Dolphins their financial woes are not necessarily fan related.

 

[flapanthersfan]

Montreal and Toronto are worth ore than Florida could ever make, but I digress... I disagree with your point about the NHL not letting the Panthers leave. Arizona is Bettman's pet project, that's why he's so stubborn about letting them leave. Florida is not a Bettman related team. If you look at Hartford, Winnipeg, and Quebec, the NHL did nothing to stop that from happening. Atlanta is unknown, because unfortunately nothing could be done since A$G had arena rights.

I don't think he cares about the Panthers as he does the Coyotes.

what bettman is doing has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Coyotes being his "pet project"

i follow the sports business very closely. i have a degree in sports administration and have been employed with professional teams before (not the panthers, though)

to make a long story short, bettman's job is essentially to make the NHL as profitable as possible. in order accomplish this, he needs to secure (lucrative) national television deals. that's where the big money is made.

Canada and the United States each have their own national television deals with the NHL. the difference between the two is pretty simple though: Canada is pretty much maxed out. adding an 8th, or 9th team to Quebec City or whatever other Canadian city will not do much to improve the contracts the NHL already has with CBC/TSN/RDS/ etc. Canada is going to watch hockey...and as unfair as it is for the diehard fans in those cities, the NHL as a business doesn't need them for two reasons: #1 - the remaining cities without teams just aren't very big and #2 the NHL knows that they're going to watch regardless of if they have a local team there or not. local viewership may increase with a local team, but not nearly enough to justify losing an American market ...(and i'll explain why below.)

The US TV deal, on the other hand, is incredibly underwhelming. The NHL is getting peanuts compared to what the other 3 major sports in this country make with their national broadcast deals. the only way to improve what they get from NBC (or any other potential future bidder) is to increase their viewership potential IN THE UNITED STATES.

that means major TV markers like Phoenix, and yes, South Florida, are critical to the potential development of the NHL product/business. the more eyeballs, the more TV sets, in a certain market, the more potential for growth. IT'S THAT SIMPLE. it doesn't matter if it ****ing snows in that market or the arena is built in the middle of a desert. if there's a large population with millions of TV sets there, ANY/ALL PROFESSIONAL SPORTS BUSINESS WILL NEED TO HAVE A STAKE IN THAT CITY.

attendance figures mean very little. they mean almost nothing actually to the NHL business. to the Florida Panthers business it means everything, because that's one of our only 3 ways of securing income on our own (without revenue sharing). but the NHL? it means just about nothing. so we're drawing 15,000 to watch a terrible team play hockey? who cares? what did chicago draw when they were terrible? what did boston draw when they were terrible? it was less than us.

people will point to Atlanta and say, well, the NHL moved from there with little fight so your premise is wrong. but they're wrong. they're comparing apples to oranges.

if the NHL had it's way, they never would have left Atlanta, either. but they were put in an impossible situation by the former ownership group of the Thrashers. that ownership group also owned the Atlanta Hawks and the Phillips arena, where the Thrashers played in.

That means if they were to sell the Thrashers to a local ownership group, the new ownership group would have to sign a lease to pay at the Phillips arena (similar to what the Marlins used to to at Sun-Life Stadium or whatever the hell it's called now). That means split revenue (at best) for parking, concessions, etc.

These teams are bleeding money as they are. No sane businessman is going to invest in a team that has to sign a lease to other businessmen to play there. The leases teams sign with counties are almost always very team friendly. Leases that teams sign with other teams are never friendly. Ask the Marlins, who got ZERO revenue from concessions, parking, etc.

our lease here is as friendly as it gets. the Coyotes actually have a terrible lease in Glendale and Bettman has been fighting tooth & nail to get their politicians to alter it so the NHL can keep them there.

Do you think it's a coincidence it took the NHL like 3 years to find a suitable ownership group for the Coyotes, but as soon as a "For sale" sign went up on the Panthers they were sold immediately? It's the lease. Simple.

are the panthers struggling financially? yeah, they sure are. but that doesn't mean the NHL will want to move them anytime soon. if things don't change in the next 5 years, and we continue to be terrible on the ice and crowds continue to be small....and Viola gets sick of losing money the NHL will just find the next billionare who wants to own a professional team even if it means losing $10 million a year. just like they did after Huizenga got sick of losing money. And Cohen. And Viner.

any person that disagrees with any of this is just flat out ignorant about the way professional sports work. in the end, even though they are the majority, their opinions don't matter one bit. so these morons in Canada can keep thumping their chest every time they hear news like this from us...it's not going to change anything. They still have no idea what they're talking about, and will likely continue to be clueless as long as they live. Ignore them. you can't cure stupidity.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

^Won't quote it, but that's a fantastic post.

2 questions/ comments though:You mention the tv deal. How relevant is that in Florida/ Phoenix (now Arizona I guess) who never get nationally televised anyways?

Second question, I don't doubt at all that if Florida were to go back up for sale, a new owner would buy the team with the intention of keeping them there. But is there something to stop Viola from either using his own money to pay the money owed on the lease or having the council pay off the money owed on the lease and simply moving the team on his own volition? I don't trust him at all right now.

 

[IceManCat]

what bettman is doing has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Coyotes being his "pet project"

i follow the sports business very closely. i have a degree in sports administration and have been employed with professional teams before (not the panthers, though)

to make a long story short, bettman's job is essentially to make the NHL as profitable as possible. in order accomplish this, he needs to secure (lucrative) national television deals. that's where the big money is made.

Canada and the United States each have their own national television deals with the NHL. the difference between the two is pretty simple though: Canada is pretty much maxed out. adding an 8th, or 9th team to Quebec City or whatever other Canadian city will not do much to improve the contracts the NHL already has with CBC/TSN/RDS/ etc. Canada is going to watch hockey...and as unfair as it is for the diehard fans in those cities, the NHL as a business doesn't need them for two reasons: #1 - the remaining cities without teams just aren't very big and #2 the NHL knows that they're going to watch regardless of if they have a local team there or not. local viewership may increase with a local team, but not nearly enough to justify losing an American market ...(and i'll explain why below.)

The US TV deal, on the other hand, is incredibly underwhelming. The NHL is getting peanuts compared to what the other 3 major sports in this country make with their national broadcast deals. the only way to improve what they get from NBC (or any other potential future bidder) is to increase their viewership potential IN THE UNITED STATES.

that means major TV markers like Phoenix, and yes, South Florida, are critical to the potential development of the NHL product/business. the more eyeballs, the more TV sets, in a certain market, the more potential for growth. IT'S THAT SIMPLE. it doesn't matter if it ****ing snows in that market or the arena is built in the middle of a desert. if there's a large population with millions of TV sets there, ANY/ALL PROFESSIONAL SPORTS BUSINESS WILL NEED TO HAVE A STAKE IN THAT CITY.

attendance figures mean very little. they mean almost nothing actually to the NHL business. to the Florida Panthers business it means everything, because that's one of our only 3 ways of securing income on our own (without revenue sharing). but the NHL? it means just about nothing. so we're drawing 15,000 to watch a terrible team play hockey? who cares? what did chicago draw when they were terrible? what did boston draw when they were terrible? it was less than us.

people will point to Atlanta and say, well, the NHL moved from there with little fight so your premise is wrong. but they're wrong. they're comparing apples to oranges.

if the NHL had it's way, they never would have left Atlanta, either. but they were put in an impossible situation by the former ownership group of the Thrashers. that ownership group also owned the Atlanta Hawks and the Phillips arena, where the Thrashers played in.

That means if they were to sell the Thrashers to a local ownership group, the new ownership group would have to sign a lease to pay at the Phillips arena (similar to what the Marlins used to to at Sun-Life Stadium or whatever the hell it's called now). That means split revenue (at best) for parking, concessions, etc.

These teams are bleeding money as they are. No sane businessman is going to invest in a team that has to sign a lease to other businessmen to play there. The leases teams sign with counties are almost always very team friendly. Leases that teams sign with other teams are never friendly. Ask the Marlins, who got ZERO revenue from concessions, parking, etc.

our lease here is as friendly as it gets. the Coyotes actually have a terrible lease in Glendale and Bettman has been fighting tooth & nail to get their politicians to alter it so the NHL can keep them there.

Do you think it's a coincidence it took the NHL like 3 years to find a suitable ownership group for the Coyotes, but as soon as a "For sale" sign went up on the Panthers they were sold immediately? It's the lease. Simple.

are the panthers struggling financially? yeah, they sure are. but that doesn't mean the NHL will want to move them anytime soon. if things don't change in the next 5 years, and we continue to be terrible on the ice and crowds continue to be small....and Viola gets sick of losing money the NHL will just find the next billionare who wants to own a professional team even if it means losing $10 million a year. just like they did after Huizenga got sick of losing money. And Cohen. And Viner.

any person that disagrees with any of this is just flat out ignorant about the way professional sports work. in the end, even though they are the majority, their opinions don't matter one bit. so these morons in Canada can keep thumping their chest every time they hear news like this from us...it's not going to change anything. They still have no idea what they're talking about, and will likely continue to be clueless as long as they live. Ignore them. you can't cure stupidity.

A lot of good points here ^

 

[Coach Nate]

^^ That post should be stickied in the BOH forum.

 

[jol]

that means major TV markers like Phoenix, and yes, South Florida, are critical to the potential development of the NHL product/business. the more eyeballs, the more TV sets, in a certain market, the more potential for growth. IT'S THAT SIMPLE. it doesn't matter if it ****ing snows in that market or the arena is built in the middle of a desert. if there's a large population with millions of TV sets there, ANY/ALL PROFESSIONAL SPORTS BUSINESS WILL NEED TO HAVE A STAKE IN THAT CITY.

Atlanta's exit from NHL, 8th biggest tv market in USA, didn't alter tv contract.

are the panthers struggling financially? yeah, they sure are. but that doesn't mean the NHL will want to move them anytime soon. if things don't change in the next 5 years, and we continue to be terrible on the ice and crowds continue to be small....and Viola gets sick of losing money the NHL will just find the next billionare who wants to own a professional team even if it means losing $10 million a year. just like they did after Huizenga got sick of losing money. And Cohen. And Viner.

If this market, South Florida, is so great for NHL, can't league give more funds to Panthers? Phoenix is getting help from revenue sharing and some other fund (loans?)

JOL

 

[jol]

He made his money with his High Frequency Trading firm. All HFT is getting investigated right now. The whole industry is under the eyes of the SEC after the 60 Minutes story about HFT a few weeks ago. It's not specific to Viola.

Yeah, whole industry is under scrutiny, but Viola had to postpone his company's IPO.

JOL

 

[CoolburnIsGone]

Montreal and Toronto are worth ore than Florida could ever make, but I digress... I disagree with your point about the NHL not letting the Panthers leave. Arizona is Bettman's pet project, that's why he's so stubborn about letting them leave. Florida is not a Bettman related team. If you look at Hartford, Winnipeg, and Quebec, the NHL did nothing to stop that from happening. Atlanta is unknown, because unfortunately nothing could be done since A$G had arena rights.

I don't think he cares about the Panthers as he does the Coyotes.

Actually I can tell you from 2nd hand knowledge (in speaking to Viner) that Bettman does have an interest in not letting the Panthers leave. Bettman was called & agreed to give us the draft next yr and the promise to be in the running for another All Star game (so the team could get that new scoreboard that everyone was clamouring about). Why would he do that if he had no interest in keeping the team here? Also you do know that the General Managers meeting is usually held in Florida on a yearly basis (I know for a fact it was in Boca this yr, Mar 12-14), right? The area is definitely important to the NHL so yes the commish does care about the team as much as the Coyotes.

Also on the allowing Hartford, Winnipeg, Quebec to relocate, keep in mind those situations at the time too. Winnipeg, when the team was moved was losing a ton of money and had an arena that was too small. Hartford was a similar situation too having a small arena with losing money there. Quebec had an antiquated arena and they wouldve stayed most likely had an agreement been reached then to build a new arena. The common thread among those 3 teams is the arena....we have a good sized arena (in fact, probably too large) and a mostly sweetheart deal on the lease so there's not as much losing money as being made out in the media.

The only thing to worry about right now is the vote for more funding. I'd say it's 65-35 they get it, and if so, that should give another 2-3 years before the next crisis at least. Of course since the money they're asking the County to pay off is the money that's owed on the lease, a pro relocationist will argue that it makes them even closer to moving, since they would no longer have to pay to leave. I disagree because I don't think Viola would legally be allowed to lead the County astray like that, and getting more money should be viewed only as a positive.

One thing I wanted to address is the whole Broward County request thing and Viola. Again, this is 2nd hand info (via Cliff) but most of that was put in place in previous years by Yormark & Viner. Viola is just continuing thru with it (especially so when Yormark was still part of the org) and trying to take advantage of the work done by Yormark in the past. IMO, without Yormark with the team anymore, I would say the odds are a lot closer to 50-50, at best. He apparently had a lot of influence on those commissioners in the county for whatever reason. A few "nonresidents" trying to get money from a group of county commissioners without any previous experience with them wouldnt bold well for them getting the full amount of money being requested if you ask me.

Keep in mind, what the team is essentially asking the county to do is to modify the lease agreement. The county is obviously going to ask for its own stipulations for giving the team that money so that will make it much harder for Viola to leave. I'm sure the county commissioners are thinking exactly that too and why they havent voted to approve it, whats stopping the team from asking 2-3 yrs later for more money or just deciding to break the lease & leave.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

IMO, without Yormark with the team anymore, I would say the odds are a lot closer to 50-50, at best. He apparently had a lot of influence on those commissioners in the county for whatever reason. A few "nonresidents" trying to get money from a group of county commissioners without any previous experience with them wouldnt bold well for them getting the full amount of money being requested if you ask me.

Keep in mind, what the team is essentially asking the county to do is to modify the lease agreement. The county is obviously going to ask for its own stipulations for giving the team that money so that will make it much harder for Viola to leave. I'm sure the county commissioners are thinking exactly that too and why they havent voted to approve it, whats stopping the team from asking 2-3 yrs later for more money or just deciding to break the lease & leave.

I think I was the only one here that was extremely disappointed that Yormark left as early as he did, for the reason you mentioned. However, IIRC, the county has like 4 yes votes, 4 no votes and 3 undecided, but the undecided have always chosen to give money before, so I don't think it'll be vetoed. There will be a compromised deal.


No one answered my question from before though. Viola owns the team, so if he pays off the lease, is he not allowed to do with the team what he wants? If he was only allowed to either operate the Panthers in Florida or sell the team to someone else who would keep the team in Florida, there's no issue here.

 

[CoolburnIsGone]

I think I was the only one here that was extremely disappointed that Yormark left as early as he did, for the reason you mentioned. However, IIRC, the county has like 4 yes votes, 4 no votes and 3 undecided, but the undecided have always chosen to give money before, so I don't think it'll be vetoed. There will be a compromised deal.


No one answered my question from before though. Viola owns the team, so if he pays off the lease, is he not allowed to do with the team what he wants? If he was only allowed to either operate the Panthers in Florida or sell the team to someone else who would keep the team in Florida, there's no issue here.

But the undecided have also come out to say that they want changes to the lease agreement so thats going to make it much more difficult for the Panthers to get what they want (which in the end, is more money in their pockets). Its a compromised deal, yes, but it wont be as favorable as they had hoped and probably could've gotten with Yormark.

The NHL Board of Governors would still have to approve of him moving the team even if he could buyout the lease. He's not completely free to do whatever he wants with the franchise. Thats where the term "franchise" is important to note...the NHL sold the "rights" to their business model to an owner/group (just like McDonalds, Subway, etc). The owner of the franchise cant just do whatever they want like move if they dont get permission from the parent company. For instance, a team cant just move to within a certain radius of an existing one without paying a fee to the existing one (this is why there will never be a 2nd franchise in Toronto as they would have to pay both the Leafs & Sabres). And in the end, this is where yes Bettman wanting the team to stay in South Florida would be significant to what you're asking about. If he wants the team to stay (as seen with the Coyotes), it will stay.

 

[flapanthersfan]

^Won't quote it, but that's a fantastic post.

2 questions/ comments though:You mention the tv deal. How relevant is that in Florida/ Phoenix (now Arizona I guess) who never get nationally televised anyways?

I assume you're referring to the national television deal the NHL has with NBC.

that deal doesn't involve the teams (Florida & Arizona) directly. the NHL gets that money, and in turn distribute (some of) that money to the 30 teams.

teams like Florida and Arizona are bound to receive more than Toronto or New York due to "revenue sharing" that is in the CBA, but all 30 teams get their slice.

The larger the TV deal, the more money all teams receive, and the more money teams have to share.

Second question, I don't doubt at all that if Florida were to go back up for sale, a new owner would buy the team with the intention of keeping them there. But is there something to stop Viola from either using his own money to pay the money owed on the lease or having the council pay off the money owed on the lease and simply moving the team on his own volition? I don't trust him at all right now.

Yes. Any relocation of a franchise would have to be approved by the BoG (Board of Governors)

It's unlikely they would approve a move if Bettman is against it. and saying "it's unlikely" is being kind. They will not approve it.

Jim Balsille tried this with Phoenix AND Atlanta and was denied, both times, even though he was offering far more lucrative deals to buy those teams than the NHL eventually landed.

 

[flapanthersfan]

^^ That post should be stickied in the BOH forum.

you can quote it in that Panthers thread if you wish, but you'll just be wasting your time.

people will only hear what they want to hear. Canadians want their team in their way, logic won't stop them from keeping their dream.

as they say, false hope is better than no hope.

 

[flapanthersfan]

Atlanta's exit from NHL, 8th biggest tv market in USA, didn't alter tv contract.

only because the current TV deal the NHL has with NBC really couldn't get much worse.

the NHL gets almost nothing compared to the other professional sports leagues. if the deal got any worse, they'd pretty much be giving NBC their broadcasting rights for free.

they want american markets to IMPROVE the deal. the less markets you have, the less potential for growth.

think of it this way. South Florida has what, 4-5 million people? (Miami Dade, Broward and West Palm combined is considered "South Florida)

that's 4-5 million eyeballs and TV sets the NHL loses in future TV deal negotiations if Florida ever moves. If the Panthers are gone, the potential to lure in those fans is gone.

for what? to move a team to Canada in a city with 400,000 people that are already watching anyway? makes no sense from a business perspective. and that's all that matters.

If this market, South Florida, is so great for NHL, can't league give more funds to Panthers? Phoenix is getting help from revenue sharing and some other fund (loans?)

JOL

we're getting revenue sharing every year. and the reason we continue to cut our "official capacity" of our arena (by tarping off sections) is so we can continue qualifying for revenue sharing.

i think you have to have like 75% capacity for the season in order to qualify (or something like that, have no clue what the actual numbers are in the CBA...i just know that's the reason for the tarping of sections)

 

[flapanthersfan]

But the undecided have also come out to say that they want changes to the lease agreement so thats going to make it much more difficult for the Panthers to get what they want (which in the end, is more money in their pockets). Its a compromised deal, yes, but it wont be as favorable as they had hoped and probably could've gotten with Yormark.

The NHL Board of Governors would still have to approve of him moving the team even if he could buyout the lease. He's not completely free to do whatever he wants with the franchise. Thats where the term "franchise" is important to note...the NHL sold the "rights" to their business model to an owner/group (just like McDonalds, Subway, etc). The owner of the franchise cant just do whatever they want like move if they dont get permission from the parent company. For instance, a team cant just move to within a certain radius of an existing one without paying a fee to the existing one (this is why there will never be a 2nd franchise in Toronto as they would have to pay both the Leafs & Sabres). And in the end, this is where yes Bettman wanting the team to stay in South Florida would be significant to what you're asking about. If he wants the team to stay (as seen with the Coyotes), it will stay.

^^ Yup.

They could also force Viola to sell the team, as the NBA is doing with Donald Sterling. That would cause a huge headache for the league full of lawsuits, but if Viola really went that route, the NHL wouldn't roll over because it sets a bad precedent for future sales.

It's not going to happen, though, so it's rather pointless to discuss.

 

[PBPantherfan]

Found this from my former ticket rep on facebook. She longs for the days when Yormark ran things because he was great LOL.

http://tiffanydipanni.blitzmetrics.com/epic-fail-florida-panthers-new-ownership/

 

[RCDeltaFixer]

Found this from my former ticket rep on facebook. She longs for the days when Yormark ran things because he was great LOL.

http://tiffanydipanni.blitzmetrics.com/epic-fail-florida-panthers-new-ownership/

I can't believe what I just read. The Yormark dynasty? Really? THE YORMARK DYNASTY?!?!?!?!!?!? The entire blog post absolutely screams "I'm butthurt over what happened, so screw the Violas!" Now I'm not saying she doesn't have the right to be upset over being fired, but all her words seem like emotional reactions rather than well-thought out responses. Anyone who thinks Yormark was worthy of being considered a dynasty for us is out of their minds. The one good thing I can think of him doing is the Broward County Council thing, but even then he up and left halfway through.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

You guys are good at making me feel less worried, thanks everyone

 

[Big Bjugs]

You guys are good at making me feel less worried, thanks everyone

Yes I feel the same. Being a Canadian on the other side of North America I still never want to see Florida leave, ever.

Now I know Canadians get a lot of flack but lets not forget that we don't count Quebec as part of Canada anyways

In fact all Canadian people who support Canadian teams have there heads shoved so far up there... Ok nevermind I have no argument apparently.

I would like to thank flapanthersfan for that great post. It really opened my eyes on the business side of the game and answered all of my questions. Now hopefully I can educate some stupid Canucks fans.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

^ I pay more to watch them play twice in Toronto than some season tickets cost. Idk if that's funny or sad.

 

[I am not exposed]

^ I pay more to watch them play twice in Toronto than some season tickets cost. Idk if that's funny or sad.

Same, but swap Toronto with Vancouver, and only once!

 

[Been there]

Actually I can tell you from 2nd hand knowledge (in speaking to Viner) that Bettman does have an interest in not letting the Panthers leave. Bettman was called & agreed to give us the draft next yr and the promise to be in the running for another All Star game (so the team could get that new scoreboard that everyone was clamouring about). Why would he do that if he had no interest in keeping the team here? Also you do know that the General Managers meeting is usually held in Florida on a yearly basis (I know for a fact it was in Boca this yr, Mar 12-14), right? The area is definitely important to the NHL so yes the commish does care about the team as much as the Coyotes.

Also on the allowing Hartford, Winnipeg, Quebec to relocate, keep in mind those situations at the time too. Winnipeg, when the team was moved was losing a ton of money and had an arena that was too small. Hartford was a similar situation too having a small arena with losing money there. Quebec had an antiquated arena and they wouldve stayed most likely had an agreement been reached then to build a new arena. The common thread among those 3 teams is the arena....we have a good sized arena (in fact, probably too large) and a mostly sweetheart deal on the lease so there's not as much losing money as being made out in the media.
One thing I wanted to address is the whole Broward County request thing and Viola. Again, this is 2nd hand info (via Cliff) but most of that was put in place in previous years by Yormark & Viner. Viola is just continuing thru with it (especially so when Yormark was still part of the org) and trying to take advantage of the work done by Yormark in the past. IMO, without Yormark with the team anymore, I would say the odds are a lot closer to 50-50, at best. He apparently had a lot of influence on those commissioners in the county for whatever reason. A few "nonresidents" trying to get money from a group of county commissioners without any previous experience with them wouldnt bold well for them getting the full amount of money being requested if you ask me.

Keep in mind, what the team is essentially asking the county to do is to modify the lease agreement. The county is obviously going to ask for its own stipulations for giving the team that money so that will make it much harder for Viola to leave. I'm sure the county commissioners are thinking exactly that too and why they havent voted to approve it, whats stopping the team from asking 2-3 yrs later for more money or just deciding to break the lease & leave.

These conversations with the county are an annual thing. This team has been going back to the county for over a decade (going back to Cohen years) asking for relief. It's not a Cohen, Viner, Viola thing its a bad business model thing.

This team has and will continuously lose millions and millions of dollars. They are the largest welfare recipients from the NHL revenue share and are consistently in the bottom in overall revenues. After all, there is a reason Viola is the 4th ownership group in the last 10 years!!!

In regards to the NHL and Bettman, this is not a strategic market for the NHL, what he did with awarding the draft and potentially all-star game is put a band aid on a gunshot wound. Which is what the NHL does in these types of situations, Atlanta was in ICU for almost a decade before the plug was pulled. The same effort will be put into here or any other market for that matter. An unstable franchise is not good for business.

 

[Big Bjugs]

^ I pay more to watch them play twice in Toronto than some season tickets cost. Idk if that's funny or sad.

Ya, it's sad that it cost's that much and it's even sadder that I bet you could get a couple games, hotel and flight (with return) to Florida, if not cheaper better value nonetheless, than 2 games in Vancouver or TO.
$325 for my wife and I to watch them in Vancouver last season, not including food, drinks, hotel. And these were nose bleed tickets.

 

[RogerRoger]

Now I know Canadians get a lot of flack but lets not forget that we don't count Quebec as part of Canada anyways

It's alright, we don't consider ourselves Canadians either

Yeah, I went to some game in Montréal and Toronto, so damn expensive. I was lucky though, I went to see them when the Leafs and Habs were out of the playoff and I managed to get some tickets for less than 60$ in the nosebleed.

The worst though is the ridiculously low amount of Panthers merchandise in the HoF store. They didn't have the new jersey during the summer they changed it. Then last summer they only had Weiss jerseys when it was fairly clear he was not coming back... I won't even bother this summer.