Speculation: Ownership Saga: Coyote's Renaissance (Read Post #1)

Status
Not open for further replies.

RABBIT

wasn’t gonna be a fan but Utalked me into it
:skeptic:

None of these makes any sense, especially with no facts to counter.

Is any of this really supposed to make sense? Everybody on this website, including you and I, sit here pretending like we pretty much have this situation figured out, and then before you know it everything changes again. :laugh:

The only facts that we have in this thread are the ones that come from the sources themselves. All of us are in the dark here. That's why I have a hard time following this thread. Everybody is an insider here, and everybody wants you to believe what they believe, and if you don't, you're either naive, too optimistic, too pessimistic, etc.

That's why I wish there was a separate "links only" thread for the ownership. Just a place you can go to read the latest from the sources, rather than search through two or three pages of people arguing over the perception of the latest press release.

But I digress...
I have a few simple questions. I just want to know your guy's perspective.

1. What are your true thoughts of the RSE group? Anybody else get the impression that they're kind of...sketchy?
2. Do you think they are actually fully committed to the Coyotes and Arizona? Or do you think they have another plan in mind?

I don't know, I have followed Anthony LeBlanc on Twitter for a few years now, and I have seen him take a few jabs at the Coyotes. I just have a feeling and a fear that if they do close the deal...that this relocation possibility may not be over. Especially if there is an out-clause. Hopefully I'm wrong, and hopefully they buy the team. I just want an owner again. At this point I would welcome Madonna owning this team.
 

Desert Ice 11

I'm here!
Aug 9, 2012
3,484
104
Tempe
1. What are your true thoughts of the RSE group? Anybody else get the impression that they're kind of...sketchy?
2. Do you think they are actually fully committed to the Coyotes and Arizona? Or do you think they have another plan in mind?

1. I am not sure what I think about them. I don't know for a fact but I am pretty sure they don't want to lose money...or a lot of money. Even if they do have some other motive, it seems like it would be a huge risk. What I think is that they just want to own a hockey team and be apart of the business of hockey. Compared to other teams the coyotes seem pretty cheap. Loan from the NHL, All the revenue sharing, help from the CoG. LeBlanc has been around this mess for a while trying to get the coyotes.

If he has taken jabs at the coyotes, could it have been out of frustration? LeBlanc had to wait a while from Ice Edge to get to RSE.

2. All I care about is what is in writing because that will dictate the limitations of any ill will. I think CoG will do a good job to get a lease agreement that will work for both parties. Could be a start to a good relationship.

Once all the debts are paid I think money will then be generated. Of course at the expense of fans through new fees and charges. I dug up an old article and I wonder if it might have any relevance.

http://arenadigest.com/201006113006/hockey/nhl-hockey/ice-edge-we-have-the-money-for-coyotes-purchase
 

Plub

Part time Leaf fan
Jan 9, 2011
14,932
1,744
Arizona
:skeptic:

None of these makes any sense, especially with no facts to counter.

The first quote is someone saying the exact same thing as XX, but in reverse, yet only one person is quoted and asked to give facts, weird.

The second in a snarky post about someone being full of ****, which is subjective and really doesn't need to be supported by facts as it is an opinion formed by a personal feeling.

Third quote is clearly sarcasm, not sure how you missed that one?

The fourth quote is someone speculating, he never says anything is a fact, nor does he present anything as a fact, thus the "?" after the 15 years comment.

keep up the good work AP. :thumbu:
 

Sinurgy

Approaching infinity
Sponsor
Feb 8, 2004
12,581
4,249
AZ
1. What are your true thoughts of the RSE group? Anybody else get the impression that they're kind of...sketchy?
2. Do you think they are actually fully committed to the Coyotes and Arizona? Or do you think they have another plan in mind?

I don't know, I have followed Anthony LeBlanc on Twitter for a few years now, and I have seen him take a few jabs at the Coyotes. I just have a feeling and a fear that if they do close the deal...that this relocation possibility may not be over. Especially if there is an out-clause. Hopefully I'm wrong, and hopefully they buy the team. I just want an owner again. At this point I would welcome Madonna owning this team.
1. I don't know a lot about them but the Twitter thing disappoints me, I just find it difficult to take anyone serious who gets into Twitter wars. At least not from a professional standpoint anyway. I'm also concerned that Gosbee is only putting in $10 million, it makes it seem like he's not all that interested. All that said, I don't think these people are coming from a bad place. What their basically attempting to do is that old real estate adage of buying the cheapest house in the nicest neighborhood.

2. I think they just really really want to own an NHL team and this is their best chance at pulling it off. I don't think they have secret plans of whisking the team away and I expect CoG to write up a contract that will keep them here for at least 10+ years. I suspect they are ok with that but in return will require a higher AMF for it. So basically I think they view the valley in a neutral way, they just want an NHL team and if it's in Phoenix, that's cool with them but if it's in Seattle, that's cool with them too.
 

ClassLessCoyote

Staying classy
Jun 10, 2009
30,112
277
Is any of this really supposed to make sense?

Actually, I have my doubts over who is really legit when I read certain posts as I sense a degree of shadiness with what I have seen over the past few weeks. Maybe I should just use my ignore feature instead for such cases?
 
Last edited:

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
30,222
9,225
Actually, I have my doubts over who is really legit when I read certain posts as I sense a degree of shadiness with what I have seen over the past few weeks. Maybe I should just use my ignore feature instead for such cases?

Why? Because some posters question your stance on this mess? Chill out. We all don't have to agree to your opinion and vice versa. I personally don't agree with most of your posts, but I do enjoy reading them.
 

zz

Registered User
Nov 1, 2006
6,170
353
But I digress...
I have a few simple questions. I just want to know your guy's perspective.

1. What are your true thoughts of the RSE group? Anybody else get the impression that they're kind of...sketchy?
2. Do you think they are actually fully committed to the Coyotes and Arizona? Or do you think they have another plan in mind?

The Ice Edge guys look to me like millionaires pretending to be billionaires. Plenty of those around. They'd love to sit at the big boys table, tell the Don how to do business, and tell everyone around they own an NHL franchise. But they don't have the money. Classic pretenders.

They went to Gosbee and told the guy - hey, would you put $ 10M in an NHL franchise for ***** and giggles and have some fun with it for 5 years? Could be a blast, and you might never get another chance to be a major sports owner for such a small amount of cash. Oh, and we figured out a way to get all expenses paid for for 5 years.

So that's where we are. Nothing I've seen so far tells me they give a **** where the team plays. Glendale, Seattle, Quebec or Saskatoon - who cares? Hell, let's get this show on the road and make it the Desert Globe Trotters while we're at it!

This whole thing makes me sick to my stomach. I can absolutely picture RSE and Glendale coming up with ********, fictitious 'new lines of revenue' to justify a Pejorative Slured AMF. We'll be operating with a rock-bottom budget for 5 years, then the party will be over. I completely understand the fans' point of view that 5 years of suckitude is better than nothing. I personally am not all that interested, and seeing tax payer money being used this way makes me ill.
 

XX

Waiting for Ishbia
Dec 10, 2002
54,938
14,669
PHX
Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC 6m
Will be wild week in PHO. Details of potential plan to be revealed Monday. “Cautious optimism†it will pass, but foes expected to fight hard

Can't wait.

I personally am not all that interested, and seeing tax payer money being used this way makes me ill.

You're such a terrible person and fan.:sarcasm:
 

RABBIT

wasn’t gonna be a fan but Utalked me into it
Actually, I have my doubts over who is really legit when I read certain posts as I sense a degree of shadiness with what I have seen over the past few weeks. Maybe I should just use my ignore feature instead for such cases?
if that was directed towards me I have no idea what you're talking about, I hardy ever even post in this thread anymore...but I mean hey, be my guest :laugh:
 

yotesreign

Registered User
Jan 26, 2009
1,570
0
Goldwater Blvd
The Ice Edge guys look to me like millionaires pretending to be billionaires. Plenty of those around. They'd love to sit at the big boys table, tell the Don how to do business, and tell everyone around they own an NHL franchise. But they don't have the money. Classic pretenders.

They went to Gosbee and told the guy - hey, would you put $ 10M in an NHL franchise for ***** and giggles and have some fun with it for 5 years? Could be a blast, and you might never get another chance to be a major sports owner for such a small amount of cash. Oh, and we figured out a way to get all expenses paid for for 5 years.

So that's where we are. Nothing I've seen so far tells me they give a **** where the team plays. Glendale, Seattle, Quebec or Saskatoon - who cares? Hell, let's get this show on the road and make it the Desert Globe Trotters while we're at it!

This whole thing makes me sick to my stomach. I can absolutely picture RSE and Glendale coming up with ********, fictitious 'new lines of revenue' to justify a Pejorative Slured AMF. We'll be operating with a rock-bottom budget for 5 years, then the party will be over. I completely understand the fans' point of view that 5 years of suckitude is better than nothing. I personally am not all that interested, and seeing tax payer money being used this way makes me ill.

Hey, way to bury the lead there, Ollie. :)

I agree with this Canadian

 

Govment Cheese

Groooovy
Jul 8, 2010
511
11
It's not an assumption if you understand how lending works. It's literally the only reason RSE would need to give money to the city who then turns around hands it right back via the AMF.
Collateral is the word needed here. RSE can't secure the loan from Fortress based on what they ASSuME the revenue will be from year to year owning the Yotes and managing the Job. That is why they need Glendale to guarantee payment of the AMF.

Numbers are based on what has been speculated.
CoG AMF 15M x 15 years = 225M = Collateral
Fortress willing to loan RSE 120M based on the 225M contract with COG over term of the AMF.

Ever seen this Structured settlement commercial? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw3SYzTOL04

If RSE and COG can come to an agreement, then it is RSE's money and they need it now!

I would like to see some sort of the deal get done between CoG and RSE. That way we will know how committed the NHL and their chosen owners are to keeping hockey in Glendale. Remember the deal to sell Yotes with lease agreement still has to be voted on by the NHL BoG. Do we see another Greg Jamison like failing when the deal hits the NHL BoG table?
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
3,216
I would like to see some sort of the deal get done between CoG and RSE. That way we will know how committed the NHL and their chosen owners are to keeping hockey in Glendale. Remember the deal to sell Yotes with lease agreement still has to be voted on by the NHL BoG. Do we see another Greg Jamison like failing when the deal hits the NHL BoG table?

Ya, and it would appear that RSE & the COG may be in a sort of Mexican Standoff. RSE requires app $15M per annum guaranteed by the COG in order to satisfy Fortress that they can service the $120M loan. No guarantee, no $$$, no sale, and no idea what new revenue streams they along with Sherwood & Bowers have identified that will bridge the gap. Talk of a CFD, increased ticket surcharge, paid parking & naming rights to the building bridging the chasm, however, Glendale asking RSE that those projections be guaranteed, so you have to ask yourself: surely in their business plans & prospectus in securing Fortresses loan, they would have included those items, parking, a CFD, naming rights etc, and if it wasnt good enough for Fortress, why should Glendale accept their promises on face value?

Then theres the whole issue of equity to financing. Normally, the NHL requires minimum 50% in cash, 50% in secured credit facilities, and 50% of the total sale price in either cash or further credit facilities in order to cover costs moving forward. Here, the leagues apparently willing to provide an $85M loan, but if you read between the lines, its not really a loan, its RSE servicing $85M in debt shaved from the NHL's line of credit with Citibank that they setup & used to buy & operate the team. Additionally, though unconfirmed, reports that Gary Bettman has promised RSE maximum Revenue Sharing proceeds along with further financial support from the newly created Development Fund. In light of all of this, I frankly have a very hard time believing the NHL Board of Governors are going to have an easy time swallowing this deal, as effectively theyd be selling the team to Fortress, and those guys play rough when payments are late or missed.

Here in BC, weve had plenty of experience in dealing with them, as they financed the Contractors who were building the 2010 Olympic Athletes Village (liens applied months before the games shutting down construction) and theyd bought Intrawest, owners of Blackcomb-Whistler Mountain (along with a dozen other ski resorts throughout North America) where all of the Alpine & Nordic events were staged, again, serious problems Fall 2009 whereby they themselves, Fortress had over-extended themselves, their creditors threatening to lockdown the entire resort, no games, forced bankruptcy; legal nightmare. And it was a close shave. The City of Vancouver in Executive Session had to borrow over $300M to pay off Fortress in order to get them to withdraw the Lien on Athletes Village, and God only knows what the Province had to do to get Fortresses creditors off their backs to insure the Winter Games even took place, and just months away.

I think its far too late to be moving the Coyotes anywhere at this stage, dont see RSE closing, but what I can see happening is the NHL staying parked for another season, either renewing the AMUL and receiving the $6M budgeted for Management of the arena, justifiable as the City receives 41 guaranteed event dates that neither SMG nor Colangelo's group can guarantee, give this thing more time, and if by the end of February still nothing, no serious buyer, then thats it thats all. Sell for Relocation. For whatever reasons, if Quebec was an option at this time, obviously some obstacle there, youd think for the sake of expediency the league wouldve pulled the trigger already. Seattle, same thing. Key Arena or Bust. Monied interest apparently however, whats the dealeo with the new building, Hansen, the NBA? All kinds of loose ends and there just isnt enough time, absolutely no way in Hell to tie them up between now & next week.

Anyhoo. Thats all I got. Im hoping the NHL stays put, also hoping RSE craters, and further hoping that someone, some real group steps up to the plate and gets it done in Glendale, as this is absolutely last call, one more round and then thats it, bars closed. So keep the faith my friends, it aint over yet, of that Im certain.
 
Last edited:

cobra427

Registered User
May 6, 2012
9,342
3,379
Ya, and it would appear that RSE & the COG may be in a sort of Mexican Standoff. RSE requires app $15M per annum guaranteed by the COG in order to satisfy Fortress that they can service the $120M loan. No guarantee, no $$$, no sale, and no idea what new revenue streams they along with Sherwood & Bowers have identified that will bridge the gap. Talk of a CFD, increased ticket surcharge, paid parking & naming rights to the building bridging the chasm, however, Glendale asking RSE that those projections be guaranteed, so you have to ask yourself: surely in their business plans & prospectus in securing Fortresses loan, they would have included those items, parking, a CFD, naming rights etc, and if it wasnt good enough for Fortress, why should Glendale accept their promises on face value?

Then theres the whole issue of equity to financing. Normally, the NHL requires minimum 50% in cash, 50% in secured credit facilities, and 50% of the total sale price in either cash or further credit facilities in order to cover costs moving forward. Here, the leagues apparently willing to provide an $85M loan, but if you read between the lines, its not really a loan, its RSE servicing $85M in debt shaved from the NHL's line of credit with Citibank that they setup & used to buy & operate the team. Additionally, though unconfirmed, reports that Gary Bettman has promised RSE maximum Revenue Sharing proceeds along with further financial support from the newly created Development Fund. In light of all of this, I frankly have a very hard time believing the NHL Board of Governors are going to have an easy time swallowing this deal, as effectively theyd be effectively selling the team to Fortress, and those guys play rough when payments are late or missed.

Here in BC, weve had plenty of experience in dealing with them, as they financed the Contractors who were building the 2010 Olympic Athletes Village (liens applied months before the games shutting down construction) and theyd bought Intrawest, owners of Blackcomb-Whistler Mountain (along with a dozen other ski resorts throughout North America) where all of the Alpine & Nordic events were staged, again, serious problems Fall 2009 whereby they themselves, Fortress had over-extended themselves, their creditors threatening to lockdown the entire resort, no games, forced bankruptcy; legal nightmare. And it was a close shave. The City of Vancouver in Executive Session had to borrow over $300M to pay off Fortress in order to get them to withdraw the Lien on Athletes Village, and God only knows what the Province had to do to get Fortresses creditors off their backs to insure the Winter Games even took place, and just months away.

I think its far too late to be moving the Coyotes anywhere at this stage, dont see RSE closing, but what I can see happening is the NHL staying parked for another season, either renewing the AMUL and receiving the $6M budgeted for Management of the arena, justifiable as the City receives 41 guaranteed event dates that neither SMG nor Colangelo's group can guarantee, give this thing more time, and if by the end of February still nothing, no serious buyer, then thats it thats all. Sell for Relocation. For whatever reasons, if Quebec was an option at this time, obviously some obstacle there, youd think for the sake of expediency the league wouldve pulled the trigger already. Seattle, same thing. Key Arena or Bust. Monied interest apparently however, whats the dealeo with the new building, Hansen, the NBA? All kinds of loose ends and there just isnt enough time, absolutely no way in Hell to tie them up between now & next week.

Anyhoo. Thats all I got. Im hoping the NHL stays put, also hoping RSE craters, and further hoping that someone, some real group steps up to the plate and gets it done in Glendale, as this is absolutely last call, one more round and then thats it, bars closed. So keep the faith my friends, it aint over yet, of that Im certain.

I agree with most of your comments. I do think it does not matter much to Fortress if they get any guarantee from the COG. How good would the guarantee be anyway? I think they will be secured, and in first position, so they will get paid eventually, one way or the other. The NHL at the end of the day is the real guarantor in this deal and Fortress can bank on that.

I still believe with the NHL's intentions, RSE being involved, and the COG wanting the team to stay, all things considered, a deal gets worked out. I have seen this movie too many times, and when all parties want it to happen, something gets worked out. It might not be perfect, but I think it gets done. I also suspect with the signings of DM and TIP, the NHL had to show there hand a little to both of them. They must be comfortable at this point that the team is staying one way or the other for at least another year, and they both likely have out clauses if the team eventually moves to a new location they aren't comfortable with. The NHL is likely playing the COG and RSE a little with the Seattle rumors.

Thats my take, and we shall see what transpires in the coming weeks, I just don't see them moving this year.
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
3,216
...I just don't see them moving this year.

I dont either, far too late in the day, and to further complicate matters we have a situation in Calgary that could well require the Flames to play part of if not the entire season in Saskatoon (if they can even get the dates) or possibly a US city, be it Seattle with Key Arena, KC & the Sprint or wherever. Serious scheduling problem thrown into the mix which when combined with the possibility of moving the Coyotes to Seattle or Quebec, the Olympic break in February, well, were talkin logistical nightmare X's 2 let alone X1 if its just Phoenix being trucked off to the Northeast or Northwest, and in July at that. Hell, it took Winnipeg going flat out 24-7 from June thru October to get ready, and that was with arena improvements that began a year in advance and an AHL calibre administrative structure in place. So good luck with that if they think they can pull it off.
 

yotesreign

Registered User
Jan 26, 2009
1,570
0
Goldwater Blvd
I dont either, far too late in the day, and to further complicate matters we have a situation in Calgary that could well require the Flames to play part of if not the entire season in Saskatoon (if they can even get the dates) or possibly a US city, be it Seattle with Key Arena, KC & the Sprint or wherever. Serious scheduling problem thrown into the mix which when combined with the possibility of moving the Coyotes to Seattle or Quebec, the Olympic break in February, well, were talkin logistical nightmare X's 2 let alone X1 if its just Phoenix being trucked off to the Northeast or Northwest, and in July at that. Hell, it took Winnipeg going flat out 24-7 from June thru October to get ready, and that was with arena improvements that began a year in advance and an AHL calibre administrative structure in place. So good luck with that if they think they can pull it off.

I haven't been looking for real quotes on the damage to Calgary's arena. If any know - has there been any confirmation that they might not be able to use their arena to play their full home schedule this year in Calgary? That would be miserable, I wouldn't wish that on any team's fans. If it just a month they'd be out, could the league set their schedule so they have a light schedule the first month, maybe start them on the road? I looked at their 2011-2012 schedule & it looked like they had 7 home games and 3 road games that month. If it was only one month of season before they could use their arena maybe they could play 7 or 8 games on the road, and then... no home games or ... would Edmonton have a couple Friday or Saturday or Sunday dates they could have? I know if the Yotes had to play two games three hours away because the job was flooded, I'd rather go see them play 3 hours away on a weekend than lose two or three home dates.

As far as our situation - I upgraded my seats last Tuesday, so I like where I'll be sitting for the games - provided the team stays. So even more than before I want them to stay.
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
3,216
I haven't been looking for real quotes on the damage to Calgary's arena. If any know - has there been any confirmation that they might not be able to use their arena to play their full home schedule this year in Calgary? That would be miserable.....

Calgary is cautiously optimistic that they can pump the joint out, repair & replace whatever damage was done, minimum of inconvenience, good to go however, they dont know that for sure as structural engineers have to get in there and check out absolutely everything from the sub-flooring to the foundations & support beams which that volume of water can easily jeopardize in terms of overall integrity & safety. Then theres the electrical, those rooms still 30' under along with the dressing rooms, medical facilities etc, the ice plants totalled for sure, no idea if the Jumbotron was up or down, but its control room was submerged, 10-14 rows of seats all the way around will have to be replaced, the water will have been mixed with sewage.... see what Im sayin here? Hazmat teams. Everything stripped right down to the concrete. Might be beyond optimistic to think its like, y'know, few ounces of bathwater over the edge of yer tub huh? Covered by insurance alrighty, but Man. Nashville had a flood that was minor, minimal in comparison & they barely made it to opening. So ya, case like this, hope for the best but plan for the worst, possibly an alien concept to the NHL in light of their handling of the Phoenix file but still. Gotta be a concern.
 

zz

Registered User
Nov 1, 2006
6,170
353
Hey, way to bury the lead there, Ollie. :)

I agree with this Canadian

I don't think it's a big secret that I'm not interested in 5 years of back hockey and terrible ownership, with guaranteed financial meltdown at the end. Given the option, and assuming key players and management stay intact, I think I'd rather follow the team somewhere else, where they can actually succeed.

But that, apparently, makes me a bad fan.

You know, there's a way to disagree without sounding like a ******.
 

Sinurgy

Approaching infinity
Sponsor
Feb 8, 2004
12,581
4,249
AZ
I don't think it's a big secret that I'm not interested in 5 years of back hockey and terrible ownership, with guaranteed financial meltdown at the end. Given the option, and assuming key players and management stay intact, I think I'd rather follow the team somewhere else, where they can actually succeed.

But that, apparently, makes me a bad fan.

You know, there's a way to disagree without sounding like a ******.
Can you tell me anyone who is interested in 5 years of bad hockey, terrible ownership and a guaranteed financial meltdown?! I don't think you can because of course no one wants that. The difference is that you're assuming that's exactly what is going to occur but in reality it's 1 of several scenarios that could play out.
 

jmichael7753*

Registered User
Jan 24, 2009
1,130
0
you guys are ****ing nuts if you think RSE is not a legit ownership group. Guys have been at it since almost day one to get the team and make it work here. Go study up.
 

Sinurgy

Approaching infinity
Sponsor
Feb 8, 2004
12,581
4,249
AZ
you guys are ****ing nuts if you think RSE is not a legit ownership group. Guys have been at it since almost day one to get the team and make it work here. Go study up.
The concerns people have with RSE are warranted.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad