Speculation: Ownership Saga: Coyote's Renaissance (Read Post #1)

[rt]

You are welcome. Enjoy your trip.

 

[huhwhtfkr]

so just a quick question, there was posted a few pages back, the numbers from the taxes and sales at westgate w&w/o the coyotes. so my question is does cabelas count in that or is it just the shops surrounding the arena? that reason I ask is because cabelas and all other gun/ammo retailers experienced a breakout year due to the panic over the 2nd amendment/gun grab and would falsely inflate the numbers with a fluke spike. just wondering

 

[Howler Scores]

Well I dont know if I can help in the Martinez debate but he was quoted as not being sure how a deal would work above $6.5 million. That was before all the points were negotiated. He has not said he is a no. Please source it as so if I am wrong. I think people are assuming too much in him not being a part of the three this morning. He is very non confrontational and tries to go with the low key flow.

Now I talked to him last time around but havent this time. However this is making the rounds and I am not sure if it is from a regular poster here but fwiw:

https://mobile.twitter.com/benfidler/status/350338634811076608/photo/1

 

[GiveAFlyingPuck]

You are welcome. Enjoy your trip.

Thank you. No matter what, I'm glad I got to see the team play the last 4 seasons here. I'm greedy and would like more.

We'll be in the same spot next May that we were in this May

And if it keeps going like this, Doan will retire from a team owned by the NHL. Doh!

 

[MP]

I don't care what happens to the team anymore.

If you were expecting better from a parvenu municipal government or the international crimelords running the NHL, you're dumber than you look.

By far the greatest loss for me personally is the (probable) dissolution of this community. This is the finest team forum HFBoards has ever seen or will see. God be with you all; or if, like myself, your faith is the faith Pegana, may the path set for you by Kib be long and sunny, and may Mung withholdeth from you the sign of Mung until you are content to wander among all the Things That Were.

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

Yeah, um, as someone who isn't as cynical/embittered about the entire ownership saga as some of the longtime HFers around here, this is totally uncalled for - and I'm nearly on the opposite side of the spectrum of XX on just about everything Yotes related lol.

Your zeal is admirable, and you are entitled to your own opinions. But that entitlement does not extend to having your own facts.

Of course and here is some other stuff that those who are too positive about this mess fail to understand(like many other things as well) should the deal pass:

1. Goldwater is going to try once again to derail the best they can by legal means.
2. The NHL could end up still reject the deal like this foolishly did last time should this deal survive the legal challenges.

But of course this is just "speculation"(buzzword) and pretending to have inside info.

 

[XX]

Surprise, Brahm Resnik is back

The Arizona Republic’s Paul Giblin reported that acting City Manager Dick Bowers is balking at putting the deal to a council vote, fearing the city is taking on too much risk.

But here’s the other side – something Glendale did not release: A sharply worded letter Wednesday from RSE’s attorney to Bowers, expressing surprise at a last-minute demand that RSE provide an “absolute guaranty” against Glendale’s potential losses.

The deal points include RSE’s counter-proposal of a limited guarantee.


So less than a week from the assumed deadline for a deal between Glendale and RSE, the sides appear to be far apart, RSE clearly does not believe Glendale is bargaining in good faith, and Glendale has so far balked at putting the deal on the council agenda.

The City Council will discuss the deal in closed session at 9 a.m. Friday. Spokeswoman Julie Frisoni sent me a text Thursday saying she believes the council will call for a meeting Tuesday night.

http://www.azcentral.com/ic/pdf/0627letter.pdf

So the city and RSE haven't actually reached a deal yet.

Bowers doesn't like it

http://www.glendaleaz.com/documents/062513-MC-Bowers-Renaissance.pdf

edit: out clause is $50m or 5 years?

 Risk to the city:
o The city bears all the risk if the revenue projected by Renaissance is not realized.
o The deal requires a $15 million management fee to Renaissance. The city has budgeted
$6 million to pay for part of the $15 million arena management fee and Renaissance has
projected shared revenue streams to help bridge the gap. Should those projections not be
realized, and the city does not receive the projected revenues, then the city would need to
make up that loss.
o The proposed agreement is for 15 years and does not allow for the city to terminate the deal if
revenue projections are not met as long as the Coyotes play in the arena.
o The proposed contract can be terminated by Renaissance if their cumulative losses reach
$50 million, and, in any event, after five years.

 

[IPreferPi]

edit: out clause is $50m or 5 years?

Mouser addressed this a few pages back - the out clause is 5 years AND at least $50 million in losses, not "or."

3.3 Early Termination. Notwithstanding the other terms and provisions of this
Agreement, Team Owner and Arena Manager jointly shall have the right to terminate this Agreement
without penalty or cost by delivery of written notice to the City at any time following the fifth (5th) year
after commencement of the Term when (a) neither terminating Party is in material default of any term or
condition of this Agreement, and (b) Team Owner has incurred a cumulative Operating Loss of
$50,000,000 or more, calculated as the sum of Team Owner’s operating income/loss for each of the Fiscal
Year periods then ended, provided that if such notice is given during any NHL hockey season, the
termination shall not be effective until the end of the applicable hockey season, including all Home
Games associated with the season. In this regard, Team Owner shall deliver to the City, not later than
ninety (90) days following the end of each Fiscal Year, a statement (certified to the City by the Team
Owner’s chief financial officer or the Team Owner’s certified public accountants, at the option of Team
Owner) of the Team Owner’s claimed operating income or loss for such Fiscal Year, which statement
shall be subject to audit by the City and shall thereafter be conclusive upon Team Owner with respect to
the cumulation of Operating Losses, if any. Notwithstanding the foregoing, there shall be no right of the
Team Owner or Arena Manager to terminate this Agreement pursuant to this Section 3.3 except as
provided in Section 3.4.

 

[XX]

Mouser addressed this a few pages back - the out clause is 5 years AND at least $50 million in losses, not "or."

That doesn't alleviate any concerns. That's $10m a year, which historically isn't much. Worse yet, RSE could theoretically expand the budget and ice a better team, while at the same time accelerating the out clause clock. The amount of debt they are taking on and the way it is structured suggests that the end game here is and always has been a move to another market. That is really the only scenario where Fortress and the NHL are made whole.

I'm not convinced this is anything more than a babysitter being paid to sit on the Coyote throne until options for relocation are better. It doesn't take conspiracy level leaps in logic to see it that way, either. I'm not going to cheer for these clowns for five years, only to watch them move the team to GTA2.

 

[IPreferPi]

That doesn't alleviate any concerns. That's $10m a year, which historically isn't much. Worse yet, RSE could theoretically expand the budget and ice a better team, while at the same time accelerating the out clause clock. The amount of debt they are taking on and the way it is structured suggests that the end game here is and always has been a move to another market. That is really the only scenario where Fortress and the NHL are made whole.

I'm not convinced this is anything more than a babysitter being paid to sit on the Coyote throne until options for relocation are better. It doesn't take conspiracy level leaps in logic to see it that way, either. I'm not going to cheer for these clowns for five years, only to watch them move the team to GTA2.

Be that as it may, it is an answer to your question of "50 million or 5 years" - RSE can't pull the plug in less than 5 years. I won't argue speculation about the future with you because, well, it's speculation.

 

[Sinurgy]

Of course and here is some other stuff that those who are too positive about this mess fail to understand(like many other things as well) should the deal pass:

1. Goldwater is going to try once again to derail the best they can by legal means.
2. The NHL could end up still reject the deal like this foolishly did last time should this deal survive the legal challenges.

But of course this is just "speculation"(buzzword) and pretending to have inside info.

Buzzword is your new buzzword.

 

[ck26]

That doesn't alleviate any concerns. That's $10m a year, which historically isn't much. Worse yet, RSE could theoretically expand the budget and ice a better team, while at the same time accelerating the out clause clock. The amount of debt they are taking on and the way it is structured suggests that the end game here is and always has been a move to another market. That is really the only scenario where Fortress and the NHL are made whole.

This sounds suspiciously like the plot to the movie Major League. Rundblad, if you're reading, that's a GDT possibility ...

I'm not convinced this is anything more than a babysitter being paid to sit on the Coyote throne until options for relocation are better. It doesn't take conspiracy level leaps in logic to see it that way, either. I'm not going to cheer for these clowns for five years, only to watch them move the team to GTA2.

Judge those years based on merit. If there's money to sign and re-sign players, Don and Tipp keep doing their thing and the team competes, don't we have to be happy? How many businesses in America lose money 5 years running and power on? Only ones that were outrageously strong to begin with and that are in more critical industries than entertainment. If this is a five-year reprieve, so be it. Better than nothing, right?

 

[Desert Ice 11]

Here, take this with you. You can just refer back to it periodically rather than having to check this thread while you are trying to enjoy yourself. I can guarantee it's accuracy. 100%..

THE LIST (rt style):

The council will vote YES on Tuesday

Then some unforeseen obstacle will delay closing

Then COG will ask for more time to deal with the obstacle and the NHL will agree (given their appreciation of the council's efforts) for the low, low price of 6.5m AMF that the COG had budgeted and as a result will agree to

The obstacle will prove insurmountable and RSE will walk away sometime in October or November

The NHL will identify a new group interested in local ownership sometime in February or March

We'll be in the same spot next May that we were in this May

I like your style rt.

 

[Howler Scores]

"@HedgeyeDJ: @PaulGiblinAriz FYI Paul Giblin is a journalist that appears to have an anti-Coyotes bias."

Well he has been a riot on twitter today.

 

[rt]

Well he has been a riot on twitter today.

It sucks that our only hope is a bunch of tweeting teenage girls. Ugh.

 

[Mosby]

My understanding is that the sale agreement with RSE is on the condition that they work out a lease agreement with the COG.

Let's say the lease agreement gets 4 Yes votes. Isn't this then all wrapped up? What's left to resolve?

 

[IPreferPi]

My understanding is that the sale agreement with RSE is on the condition that they work out a lease agreement with the COG.

Let's say the lease agreement gets 4 Yes votes. Isn't this then all wrapped up? What's left to resolve?

Potential outside interference from a referendum drive or from GWI
RSE actually closing the deal

I'm not that worried about the former point. But after Jamison imploded in January, definitely worried about the latter.

 

[rt]

My understanding is that the sale agreement with RSE is on the condition that they work out a lease agreement with the COG.

Let's say the lease agreement gets 4 Yes votes. Isn't this then all wrapped up? What's left to resolve?

Haha. That was also true of the Jamison deal. Then his financing fell through. Hulsizer's deal looked pretty well wrapped up too. Then the GWI set fire to it. Then there's the old grandpas rolling around with petitions. Will those factors arise again? Maybe, maybe not. Nobody saw them coming then, however. I'm sure there is something nobody sees coming now that will show up and throw a wrench in the gears. It's too contentious. It's too crappy of a deal. There are so many factors that want to kill this thing. Maybe they will, maybe they won't.

A YES vote is cause for celebration. NO means certain and immediate death of the market. A YES provides some hope. However, if you think a YES vote on Tuesday means that the team will remain for five more seasons, with no doubts about it, you'll be disappointed when things inevitably continue to drag on and complicate.

 

[XX]

It sucks that our only hope is a bunch of tweeting teenage girls. Ugh.

Daryl Jones ‏@HedgeyeDJ 26m
@PaulGiblinAriz FYI Paul Giblin is a journalist that appears to have an anti-Coyotes bias.

Paul Giblin ‏@PaulGiblinAriz 27m
FYI: Daryl Jones @HedgeyeDJ is one of the principals of Renaissance Sports & Entertainment, the group that’s trying to buy the #Coyotes.

Daryl Jones ‏@HedgeyeDJ 28m
@PaulGiblinAriz Teasing Paul ;-)

Daryl Jones ‏@HedgeyeDJ 7m
Honestly, call people out for what they are ... We only have one shot at this thing called life. Lets be real.

Good for Giblin to keep it professional.

 

[Howler Scores]

Good for Giblin to keep it professional.

Except you have the tweets in the wrong order

https://mobile.twitter.com/HedgeyeDJ

 

[XX]

Except you have the tweets in the wrong order

https://mobile.twitter.com/HedgeyeDJ

What a stupid format. So Jones takes a shot at Giblin, says jk, then "but no, really..." ?

Can't they muzzle this idiot? At least until the deal is done. Please.

 

[mouser]

We're almost at the post limit, moving over to a new thread:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1455599