Speculation: Ownership/Management negotiates in bad faith?

[BatherSeason]

This all leads to the organisation needing a new face to represent the organisation (And hiding the old face)

Its almost like they should conduct a very public search for a President of Hockey Operations.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Its almost like they should conduct a very public search for a President of Hockey Operations.

That is the dumb thing. The search, if professionally handled, would have been private or not broadcast as it was as another sideshow.

Again, so obvious, IMO

 

[BankStreetParade]

They had trouble selling out their 15,500 seat arena some games in the playoffs, not sure they'd fill another 3k seats

Pricing would probably slide down a bit with the addition of that many extra seats. They'd go from one of the most expensive playoff tickets in the league to somewhere closer to middle of the pack I would suspect.

Ottawa on the other hand continues to be the cheapest arena to visit in Canada both regular season and playoffs.

I wouldn't imagine anyone being comfortable comparing the two situations to each other in an earnest way.

 

[GrantLemons]

Honestly mods should just make this thread the defacto "Ownership/Management/Business" thread and let everyone go at it like the last few pages, instead of having this discussion spill over into other threads. Let's be honest, until something gives with the front office, it will always be a point of frustration and discussion for us, even if theres technically nothing new to talk about.

It's can be like those injection clinics. Give us a safe space to shoot up and get our fix, and the rest of the board will be cleaner.

 

[StoicSensFan]

Honestly mods should just make this thread the defacto "Ownership/Management/Business" thread and let everyone go at it like the last few pages, instead of having this discussion spill over into other threads. Let's be honest, until something gives with the front office, it will always be a point of frustration and discussion for us, even if theres technically nothing new to talk about.

It's can be like those injection clinics. Give us a safe space to shoot up and get our fix, and the rest of the board will be cleaner.

Ah yes, the Ottawa Senators SIS

It'll probably get locked.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Honestly mods should just make this thread the defacto "Ownership/Management/Business" thread and let everyone go at it like the last few pages, instead of having this discussion spill over into other threads. Let's be honest, until something gives with the front office, it will always be a point of frustration and discussion for us, even if theres technically nothing new to talk about.

It's can be like those injection clinics. Give us a safe space to shoot up and get our fix, and the rest of the board will be cleaner.

I believe that it was stated this is the place. As long as everyone sticks to the rules, all is good.

Really good discussions in here recently.

 

[supsens]

Ok so when we are bad next year we shouldnt sign Chabot or Tkachuk the following year because we were bad? Why couldn't we have had 1 to 3 stars now and focused on filling the supporting cast instead of the other way around? The exact method you cited for the pens and leafs. why couldn't we have done the same? Oh yeah, that's right, we can't afford it regardless of the success of the team- remember that point you never answered about the Duchene trade?

What do you mean people are on the back nine? They are almost finished? Odd analogy there.

Who cares where the AHL franchise is, the location doesnt materially impact development. We havent increased scouting, we havent hired a President of hockey ops, we havent hired an experienced head coach. Please explain what we have added to the front office to improve development. The answer is nothing. We've lost our most experienced scouts on top of that too.

Your arguments are hypocritical and circular.

Let me know when you want to get to finances

The AHL being close will up the contact between all coaches staff and management ten fold, I am not sure how you don’t see everyone knowing exactly what is needed and having an in person total understanding of every single prospect isn’t going to help.
Also what’s going to get more work done when looking for hidden gems and trade partners from the AHL? sending Dorion and the top scouts down the road for the day or flying them to another country and getting them hotel rooms? Budget+travel=neglect
These things make a difference, your back yard is going to get more personal care then the getaway cabin in another country.

 

[West Coast Eagles]

The AHL being close will up the contact between all coaches staff and management ten fold, I am not sure how you don’t see everyone knowing exactly what is needed and having an in person total understanding of every single prospect isn’t going to help.
Also what’s going to get more work done when looking for hidden gems and trade partners from the AHL? sending Dorion and the top scouts down the road for the day or flying them to another country and getting them hotel rooms? Budget+travel=neglect
These things make a difference, your back yard is going to get more personal care then the getaway cabin in another country.

No I can't see the significant benefits you are citing from the move. In today's day and age I really don't see how being 200km closer is going to translate to markedly better performance. If we are that worried about a few flights and hotel rooms for Dorion and scouts we are in dire straits.
Also in your scenario are you implying we only scout AHL teams when they are in our barn?
Honestly this is whole line of thinking is one of the most ludicrous arguments I've read on here.

 

[supsens]

No I can't see the significant benefits you are citing from the move. In today's day and age I really don't see how being 200km closer is going to translate to markedly better performance. If we are that worried about a few flights and hotel rooms for Dorion and scouts we are in dire straits.
Also in your scenario are you implying we only scout AHL teams when they are in our barn?
Honestly this is whole line of thinking is one of the most ludicrous arguments I've read on here.

I can tell you will never be able to admit to anything. And you lack any understanding of what being efficient means and how valuable it is to basicly everything on this plannet, including life itself. Ludicrous can hardly describe what I just read.
You cleary have failed to grasp anything I have said, never did I say worried or implied there was a worry that the sens can't travel I cleary stated how much easier and more often it would get done nor did I state we only scout in our home rink. Your entire post is pretending I stated something that I did not state and then dumping on your own made up garbage
it's weak sauce.
But please continue on about how being time and cost efficient with our prospects,personnel and scouts has no value . It looks good on you.

 

[West Coast Eagles]

I can tell you will never be able to admit to anything. And you lack any understanding of what being efficient means and how valuable it is to basicly everything on this plannet including life itself. Ludicrous can hardly describe what I just read.
You cleary have failed to grasp anything I have said, never did I say worried or implied there was a worry that the sens can't travel I cleary stated how much easier and more ofen it would get done nor did I state we only scout in our home rink. Your entire post is pretending I stated something that I did not state and then dumping on your own made up garbage
it's weak sauce.

The AHL being close will up the contact between all coaches staff and management ten fold, I am not sure how you don’t see everyone knowing exactly what is needed and having an in person total understanding of every single prospect isn’t going to help.

This should happen regardless. If it doesn't there are severe communication breakdowns between the staff. Personally this hasn't been a problem in international projects that I have been involved in. Dont see why an extra 200km will make anything more than a marginal difference. If it was a setup like the Jets and Moose, collocation, sure but it's not.

Also what’s going to get more work done when looking for hidden gems and trade partners from the AHL? sending Dorion and the top scouts down the road for the day or flying them to another country and getting them hotel rooms? Budget+travel=neglect

This implies that it was too hard or too expensive to conduct the requisite travel they needed to do previously. I disagree. Bet you Dorion watches the same number of games live regardless.

These things make a difference, your back yard is going to get more personal care then the getaway cabin in another country.

Let's try this again then. See in your quote. Also my whole original premise was better staff investment, even if it comes out of player payroll would be a better investment.

 

[West Coast Eagles]

To follow on from my above I think there would be a greater impact by actually employing a dedicated GM for Belleville rather than Dorion wearing both hats.

 

[supsens]

Let's try this again then. See in your quote. Also my whole original premise was better staff investment, even if it comes out of player payroll would be a better investment.

Yes yes spend money and resources on two or three day trips, I love the the extra needless expense lets hire another guy so two people can make up for the lost needless travel time. Said noone running anything ever.

 

[West Coast Eagles]

Yes yes spend money and resources on two or three day trips, I love the the extra needless expense lets hire another guy so two people can make up for the lost needless travel time. Said noone running anything ever.

Belleville doesnt have a full time GM for christ sakes. It's not just another needless guy, it's reasonable request that your AHL team has a dedicated GM isnt it?
Anyways I'm done, not responding anymore.

 

[supsens]

Belleville doesnt have a full time GM for christ sakes. It's not just another needless guy, it's reasonable request that your AHL team has a dedicated GM isnt it?
Anyways I'm done, not responding anymore.

Haha I was talking about scouting not GM's, but hey keep hiring, your management skills are going all out.
And having a GM in full control of who is getting groomed for what roll and who is getting a fair shot and how they are being coached. I am 100% behind one vision without any clashes. Im not sure Dorions vision is the one we want, but thats not really the debate

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Do you guys know exactly what the offer was that Ottawa made to Mark Stone? Wasn't it something like $9.5M/5Y?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Belleville doesnt have a full time GM for christ sakes. It's not just another needless guy, it's reasonable request that your AHL team has a dedicated GM isnt it?
Anyways I'm done, not responding anymore.

It is reasonable since they valued it enough to have one previously and just had to can him because of the sexual harassment.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Do you guys know exactly what the offer was that Ottawa made to Mark Stone? Wasn't it something like $9.5M/5Y?

He said they offered him a "creative" contract

 

[JD1]

Do you guys know exactly what the offer was that Ottawa made to Mark Stone? Wasn't it something like $9.5M/5Y?

There were several different ideas floating around.

For a shorter term, one was 10.5 / 5. Long term I think we heard higher than 8.5 / 5

Our problem is the bonus money and lockout protection. Actually...allow me to restate that.... one of our problems is....

 

[stempniaksen]

Do you guys know exactly what the offer was that Ottawa made to Mark Stone? Wasn't it something like $9.5M/5Y?

I think Friedman shut those those $10.5 x 5 rumours down pretty quick, but I could be mistaken.

It sounds like they made a few offers, but the one they were discussing near the end of his time in Ottawa was apparently an 8 year deal worth less (how much less we may never know) AAV than what he eventually got with Vegas. The NTC/NMC was also apparently only for the first 5 years of the deal. There was apparently some bonus money on the table as well, but we can go ahead and assume it was significantly less than Vegas offered.

 

[NorthCoast]

Yes yes spend money and resources on two or three day trips, I love the the extra needless expense lets hire another guy so two people can make up for the lost needless travel time. Said noone running anything ever.

Sure. Smart move but it had nothing to do with efficiency unless you call deciding to accept a bigger cheque as some bug win for "efficiency".

Belleville gave him a much better deal than Binghamton was offering. That's all that mattered. Because the financials of the deals are in millions and any operating costs such as travel are marginal in comparison. And if Binghampton had countered with a better offer, he we would still be in Binghampton, regardless of any performance/development/travel benefit of being in Belleville.

Money prioritized over performance.

I still agree with the decision because it's a great deal and I agree there are some uplifts in all the efficiencies you laid out. I would even go so far as to say this is one of the best decisions they've made even if it did literally fall in their lap and was an obvious call to make based on the financials alone.

But let's not kid ourselves that anything other than the budget drove this decision.

 

[supsens]

Sure. Smart move but it had nothing to do with efficiency unless you call deciding to accept a bigger cheque as some bug win for "efficiency".

Belleville gave him a much better deal than Binghamton was offering. That's all that mattered. Because the financials of the deals are in millions and any operating costs such as travel are marginal in comparison. And if Binghampton had countered with a better offer, he we would still be in Binghampton, regardless of any performance/development/travel benefit of being in Belleville.

Money prioritized over performance.

I still agree with the decision because it's a great deal and I agree there are some uplifts in all the efficiencies you laid out. I would even go so far as to say this is one of the best decisions they've made even if it did literally fall in their lap and was an obvious call to make based on the financials alone.

But let's not kid ourselves that anything other than the budget drove this decision.

Baby steps, the budget will drive many decisions, any better deal or cost saving that isn’t from cuts or going to hurt other areas is welcome and needed.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

The draft is tonight. Is our PoHO going to be there?

 

[Masked]

The draft is tonight. Is our PoHO going to be there?

Yes, there will probably be an empty chair at the Senators draft table.

 

[armani]

The draft is tonight. Is our PoHO going to be there?

Bruce Garrioch is in Vancouver.

 

[Masked]

Bruce Garrioch is in Vancouver.

Baghdad Bruce in the Minister of Information, not the PoHO.