Speculation: Ownership/Management negotiates in bad faith?

[Sens]

With the failed extensions to Duchene, EK and Stone i don’t understand why this club is going bargain bin shopping on a President/Coach when they are sitting on 20-30 million dollars...

Unless of course those extensions were just for show? And management/ownership never had any intention for them to sign

They have all this money for extensions but after they fail, that money just vanishes and there is no plan B to re-invest it into the club.

This should be a major angle for the Ottawa media... where did all that allocated extension money go?

EK was offered 8x10
Stone and Duchene were both offered 9.0 a year
So that’s 28 million the club should have to re-invest ?

Take 3-5 million of that and put it into President/Coach?

That would be a logical thing to do with that money

Unless of course the offers were made in bad faith

Click to read more...

 

[Micklebot]

EK was offered 8x10
Stone and Duchene were both offered 9.0 a year
So that’s 28 million the club should have to re-invest ?

Take 3-5 million of that and put it into President/Coach?

That would be a logical thing to do with that money

Unless of course the offers were made in bad faith

The premise that because they offered all three a contract, they had funds available to sign all three had they all accepted is flawed. What they offered to one could easily have been contingent on whether or not the other signed or not. Karlsson leaving may have freed up room to sign Stone, perhaps their offer to Duchene was under the assumption that Stone was gone, or that he'd accept less, but once Duchene was gone (along with Dzingel) they could up their offer to Stone.

That doesn't mean that negotiations were done in good faith, but the 28 mil narrative doesn't follow logically. There was presumably money available for at least one of them, that's a reasonable assumption, but no guarantee they had the funds to pay all three.

 

[Knave]

The extension offers were just for show.

If the team wasn't pinching pennies and dead last in the league we wouldn't have this stuff leak out. "Oh we actually made a somewhat reasonable offer!".

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Boycott is working - no money for players.

 

[OmniSens]

Were the contract offers ever actually confirmed?

 

[Sensung]

Boycott is working - no money for players.

When was the last time the Sens signed anyone for over 4M?

Were fans boycotting then?

 

[5ive4Fighting]

I thought EK was 8 x 11. The offers at the TDL were called “fair” by the players, and I think they probably were fair, and in good faith. But superstars can get offers that are more than fair - full of bonuses, lockout protection, big term and NMCs - from someone. The market is a bit distorted right now, and we are likely not the only team that can’t or won’t keep up with it. Perhaps that’s short-sighted and perhaps it’s prudent. Time, as they say, will tell.

 

[Sensung]

The premise that because they offered all three a contract, they had funds available to sign all three had they all accepted is flawed. What they offered to one could easily have been contingent on whether or not the other signed or not. Karlsson leaving may have freed up room to sign Stone, perhaps their offer to Duchene was under the assumption that Stone was gone, or that he'd accept less, but once Duchene was gone (along with Dzingel) they could up their offer to Stone.

That doesn't mean that negotiations were done in good faith, but the 28 mil narrative doesn't follow logically. There was presumably money available for at least one of them, that's a reasonable assumption, but no guarantee they had the funds to pay all three.

The Sens were negotiating simultaneously with Stone, Dzingle and Duchene, so if the offers were legitimate, they had money to sign all three.

 

[Micklebot]

The Sens were negotiating simultaneously with Stone, Dzingle and Duchene, so if the offers were legitimate, they had money to sign all three.

That's not how life works. I negotiated simultaneously with three different car dealerships. I didn't have cash on to, nor the intent to buy all three.

Maybe they did have the ability to sign all three but negotiating with all three is neither proof for nor against it.

 

[Micklebot]

I thought EK was 8 x 11. The offers at the TDL were called “fair” by the players, and I think they probably were fair, and in good faith. But superstars can get offers that are more than fair - full of bonuses, lockout protection, big term and NMCs - from someone. The market is a bit distorted right now, and we are likely not the only team that can’t or won’t keep up with it. Perhaps that’s short-sighted and perhaps it’s prudent. Time, as they say, will tell.

The Ek offer was initially reported as in the neibourhood of 10x8 then between 10 and 11 but closer to 11 then definatly 11 months after.

 

[Sensung]

That's not how life works. I negotiated simultaneously with three different car dealerships. I didn't have cash on to, nor the intent to buy all three.

Maybe they did have the ability to sign all three but negotiating with all three is neither proof for nor against it.

You don't need three cars...the Sens need three players.

So how do you see it playing out for the Sens if all three accepted the lowball team friendly deals?

They would withdraw the other two offers as soon as one signed?

How do you think that would have gone over with the fanbase or locker room?

 

[Micklebot]

You don't need three cars...the Sens need three players.

So how do you see it playing out for the Sens if all three accepted the lowball team friendly deals?

They would withdraw the other two offers as soon as one signed?

How do you think that would have gone over with the fanbase or locker room?

If they could only offord one, but were not sure which would be willing to sign, what should they have done? Negotiate with only one at a time?

Do you think this team has done a great job of managing the fan bases expectations? Why would disappointing fans stop them now, it's never stopped them in the past.

The sens don't need three players, the have around 50 under contract. They like to have had those three but it needs to work in there budget. Just like i would love to add a nice sports car to my garage but can make due with the cars i already have.

And yes, if they sign a player and can no longer afford to sign more they would withdraw any outstanding offers.

 

[Sens]

The Sens ownership/management certainly projected the image they could re-sign them all

SO that was for show and an outright lie?

 

[Sensung]

If they could only offord one, but were not sure which would be willing to sign, what should they have done? Negotiate with only one at a time?

Do you think this team has done a great job of managing the fan bases expectations? Why would disappointing fans stop them now, it's never stopped them in the past.

The sens don't need three players, the have around 50 under contract. They like to have had those three but it needs to work in there budget. Just like i would love to add a nice sports car to my garage but can make due with the cars i already have.

And yes, if they sign a player and can no longer afford to sign more they would withdraw any outstanding offers.

And how would that play out in the locker room if the Sens withdrew their lowball team friendly deals?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Yes. Yes they do.

Next question.

 

[Micklebot]

And how would that play out in the locker room if the Sens withdrew their lowball team friendly deals?

Better than walking away from all of them like they eventually did?

I'm not arguing they handled things appropriately just that the narrative that because the negotiated with all three, the money was available for all three, and they were willing to spend it. It's logically flawed but rather than accept that all you have done is deflect when challenged on it.

 

[Sensung]

Better than walking away from all of them like they eventually did?

I'm not arguing they handled things appropriately just that the narrative that because the negotiated with all three, the money was available for all three, and they were willing to spend it. It's logically flawed but rather than accept that all you have done is deflect when challenged on it.

So the 11M they offered EK is the high water mark you accept?

Fine, where is that money then?

Why are they not spending it?

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Pending UFAs know they have options that are not available in Ottawa.

Ottawa, and other small market teams cannot offer huge front loaded signing bonuses, full NMCs and other clauses.

If you were Mark Stone, who just turned 27 years old, would you regret not signing in Ottawa knowing they could never have matched the contract extension he just signed?

I would love to buy a Mercedes SUV, but my income only allows me to buy and operate a Hyundai or Kia SUV.

 

[Spirit of 67]

I'll offer this observation as an outside viewer to this and perhaps it fits with the OP's narrative.

When it came out that they offered Karlsson 8 x $10M I felt it was just for show.
The thing that I felt stood out is, they've lauded this guy as the best defender in the league for 5 years or more now. When they sat down at the table, their opening comments should be that they want to keep him around, he's a huge part of the future and (most importantly) he's the best defenseman in the league and they intend to pay him as such.
They should've been trying to figure out how much more than DD he'd cost. Not how cheap they could get him.

 

[umma gumma]

Pending UFAs know they have options that are not available in Ottawa.

Pending UFAs, POHOs, head coaches, Ganitors. etc...

Only ex Biovail employees have options it seems, and anyone willing to do two or three jobs for the price of one.

 

[BatherSeason]

The offers at the TDL were called “fair” by the players, and I think they probably were fair, and in good faith

Have a look at the tweet by Brent Wallace, he basically reported that whatever we have read (re: Mark Stone) was false, I can only assume that every thing else that has been reported is also false.

 

[BatherSeason]

Pending UFAs know they have options that are not available in Ottawa.

Ottawa, and other small market teams cannot offer huge front loaded signing bonuses, full NMCs and other clauses.

If you were Mark Stone, who just turned 27 years old, would you regret not signing in Ottawa knowing they could never have matched the contract extension he just signed?

I would love to buy a Mercedes SUV, but my income only allows me to buy and operate a Hyundai or Kia SUV.

So why not hire a top notch coaching staff and executive team with the money set aside to re-sign players that don't want to be here any more??

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Pending UFAs, POHOs, head coaches, ganitors. etc...

Only ex Biovail employees have options it seems, and anyone willing to do two or three jobs for the price of one.

What is a ganitor? Is that some new millennial slang for something, that Boomers are not up to speed with?

 

[Sensung]

Dorion says they tried to sign them all, but in the end it’s a player’s prerogative to leave when he has the option.

www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/senators-gm-dorion-hopes-find-pot-gold-end-distant-rainbow/sn-amp/

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

So why not hire a top notch coaching staff and executive team with the money set aside to re-sign players that don't want to be here any more??

I don't know that the organization has money "set aside" to sign players.

Do you have a source to confirm that there's money set aside, and how much?

Most teams play their players as money comes in from their revenue streams as the season progresses. When the team gets paid, they then pay the players. I don't think team owners are sitting in vaults, on top piles of cash, sitting there doing nothing.