ScaredStreit
Registered User
Top 3. I think you could argue a couple of guys as being #2 and OV's one of them. #1 though is a lock. Saying that Howe is easily the GOAT among wingers (and he is) isn't taking anything away from Ovechkin's career.
Gordie Howe?
Always thought Howe was overrated myself. I get that he played during a different era, but he did not have the talent that Jagr had. Thats just my opinion.
Jagr also proved he could be old and do well in the NHL.
i voted top 5 but the more i compare ovechkin's resume to others (except for howe) in the top 5 - hull, jagr, richard - the more i think he has pretty decent arguments against all of them:
- hull's goalscoring titles came against a pretty weak crop of goalscorers; incredible as he was, his margins over the competition probably overstate his case. ovechkin on the other hand has gone head to head with a number of great goalscorers - iginla, kovalchuk, stamkos, tavares, crosby - and he's been both better and more consistent than any of them. about to win his 8th goalscoring title, passing hull. (and no need to get into what-ifs re hull leaving for the wha - he played 15 years in the nhl, winning 7 "rockets"; ovechkin has played 14 years and will have won 8.) on the other hand you could argue that hull's singular ability to blow up tight 60s defence systems means he's better. anyway it's getting close and the next few years could tilt it in ovechkin's favour.
- in spite of all the art rosses, etc., jagr really only has a three-year peak, '98-'00, as the undisputed best offensive player in the world - up through '97 it was lemieux, and after jagr went to washington he wasn't the same. (in '01, sakic and lemieux were better.) that makes his peak almost exactly the same as ovechkin's ('08-'10). it also says something that jagr lost harts while winning art rosses, while the opposite is true for ovechkin. similar pros & cons re playoffs in general but ovechkin's cup + smythe might make up for some down years while jagr's decent overall stats hide some underwhelming performances in clutch situations ('93, '96, '01). overall i think ovechkin is in good shape to pass jagr if things continue as they're going.
- richard is probably the hardest player to evaluate all time - so much of his esteem depends on intangible stuff that doesn't show up in stats, and on all-time great playoff production and cup wins that no contemporary player can touch. but on the merits ovechkin should be neck and neck with him.
tldr ovechkin could be as high as #2 behind howe when all is said and done - above richard and jagr, in an argument with hull that could go either way.
Really? Maybe you should take a better look to their playoff numbers, especially in goal department. Maurice was not only a great regular season player but he was even better in playoffs (don't forget he played in the lowest scoring era ever). The biggest part of the legend of Maurice 'Rocket 'Richard was built in the playoffs.I just simply don't understand how some people rank Richard above Ovi... I understand Montreal, great history and all, but in my mind Ovi passed him awhile ago, forget about if we are talking about right now. And regarding B.Hull, I believe there was a poll few seasons ago before Ovi won a Stanley cup, Conn Smythe and another Richard and they were neck-neck. I think he passed him too with that Stanley Cup, if not at least after this season for sure (assuming he gets another Richard)
Euhm maybe because he was...Then why are you picking Lafleur?
There is no case for Richard above Ovechkin at this point, he's surpassed him. There's really on 3 wingers you could put over him right now and to me it's only Jagr and Howe right now. By the end he'll have a very strong case for the best.Really? Maybe you should take a better look to their playoff numbers, especially in goal department. Maurice was not only a great regular season player but he was even better in playoffs (don't forget he played in the lowest scoring era ever). The biggest part of the legend of Maurice 'Rocket 'Richard was built in the playoffs.
I didn't say that Ovie doesn't have surpassed Maurice but some here seem to underrate him when they clearly don't know the whole picture about Maurice. Jagr? Probably but Howe? I don't think so.There is no case for Richard above Ovechkin at this point, he's surpassed him. There's really on 3 wingers you could put over him right now and to me it's only Jagr and Howe right now. By the end he'll have a very strong case for the best.
i voted top 5 but the more i compare ovechkin's resume to others (except for howe) in the top 5 - hull, jagr, richard - the more i think he has pretty decent arguments against all of them:
- hull's goalscoring titles came against a pretty weak crop of goalscorers; incredible as he was, his margins over the competition probably overstate his case. ovechkin on the other hand has gone head to head with a number of great goalscorers - iginla, kovalchuk, stamkos, tavares, crosby - and he's been both better and more consistent than any of them. about to win his 8th goalscoring title, passing hull. (and no need to get into what-ifs re hull leaving for the wha - he played 15 years in the nhl, winning 7 "rockets"; ovechkin has played 14 years and will have won 8.) on the other hand you could argue that hull's singular ability to blow up tight 60s defence systems means he's better. anyway it's getting close and the next few years could tilt it in ovechkin's favour.
- in spite of all the art rosses, etc., jagr really only has a three-year peak, '98-'00, as the undisputed best offensive player in the world - up through '97 it was lemieux, and after jagr went to washington he wasn't the same. (in '01, sakic and lemieux were better.) that makes his peak almost exactly the same as ovechkin's ('08-'10). it also says something that jagr lost harts while winning art rosses, while the opposite is true for ovechkin. similar pros & cons re playoffs in general but ovechkin's cup + smythe might make up for some down years while jagr's decent overall stats hide some underwhelming performances in clutch situations ('93, '96, '01). overall i think ovechkin is in good shape to pass jagr if things continue as they're going.
- richard is probably the hardest player to evaluate all time - so much of his esteem depends on intangible stuff that doesn't show up in stats, and on all-time great playoff production and cup wins that no contemporary player can touch. but on the merits ovechkin should be neck and neck with him.
tldr ovechkin could be as high as #2 behind howe when all is said and done - above richard and jagr, in an argument with hull that could go either way.