Out of Town Thread Part IX

[Mrb1p]

Not as good as Subban. And again, we gave up a clutch playoff performer too. Three years younger...

I just don't get how people can still try to defend this trade. Whatever...

Defend ? No one defends it. We lost the trade on value, Subban was worth more and we shouldve got more for him, but to say Subban has been better than Weber since the trade is asinine, both are low end number ones and are looking to be out of the league in three or four years.

 

[Mrb1p]

What makes no sense is that in terms of Goals per minute played he is much worse on the PP than he is 5-5. If he scored 5-5 at the same rate as he does on the PP he would have only 20 5-5 goals instead of 28. Time to save him for 5-5. The rangers/Bruins/bolts goalies have more PP assists than many of our PP regulars.

Have you caught a game anytime this year ? It should be evident why those PP stats are.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Defend ? No one defends it. We lost the trade on value, Subban was worth more and we shouldve got more for him, but to say Subban has been better than Weber since the trade is asinine, both are low end number ones and are looking to be out of the league in three or four years.

One guy had a Norris nom
One guy led his team to the cup finals

The other is Shea Weber.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Whats even more asinine? You disregarding CP as part of the Habs defense. So your comparison is m double o t

Carey Price isn't better than Holtby or Vasilevski, so again, he is not a Trump card against a lot of teams meaning the notion that a more talented team with a flaw can't win but a less talented team with multiple flaws can is asinine.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Carey Price isn't better than Holtby or Vasilevski, so again, he is not a Trump card against a lot of teams meaning the notion that a more talented team with a flaw can't win but a less talented team with multiple flaws can is asinine.

I think he is.

But he's not that much better than he can take a crap D and lead us over far superior clubs. I hate to say it but Tampa will crush us if we face them.

 

[Mrb1p]

One guy had a Norris nom
One guy led his team to the cup finals

The other is Shea Weber.

120 top 5 votes for the norris
vs
62 top 5 votes for the Norris

Youre splitting hairs, both had elite seasons so far.

The "led" his team BS needs to die already, he didn't lead anything, he played on a stacked team, just like Weber didn't "lead" his team to a 5 games in and out of PO.

It's a ridiculous argument because we spend our time whining about our team being bad and Weber playing with Kulak then you're going to go and tell me Subban is that all superior player ?

Even if you care about that, because it's true that Subban was marginally better than Weber in their sole complete season, it doesn't matter much at this point because Weber is better than him right now and Subban has looked absolutely brutal. We got out of a bad contract by paying slightly less for a contract. Ultimately, the right more would've been to deal Subban for future, but it doesn't mean that Subban is some god in Nashville, he's not.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Carey Price isn't better than Holtby or Vasilevski, so again, he is not a Trump card against a lot of teams meaning the notion that a more talented team with a flaw can't win but a less talented team with multiple flaws can is asinine.

Price is better than Holtby but not sure if he is better than Vasilevski. I have Price as a definite top 5 best goalie in the world. Holtby is not in the top 5. Price, Vasilevski, Fleury, Bob, and then make your agreements after that. Bishop, Gibson, Rask, F Anderson, Rinne, Holtby, Lundqvist, Quick, Hellebuyck, Dubnyk, Murray

Grubauer had similar stats to Holby prior to going to the Avs. Look at his stats now with the Avs? Something to be said about this.

 

[CTC]

Figured this would be the thread to throw this in but Montreal's chase to keep Columbus out of the playoffs has been the only fun I have had towards the end of this season as a Sens fan. Hoping you guys get in and that Clb win the draft with the 4th overall or even a top 3 so we get their pick next year and they lose all the UFA's and end up giving us another top draft pick with a poor season!
One can hope anyways...you guys have a couple must wins this week and then its a tough schedule compared to them, wish you luck!

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

120 top 5 votes for the norris
vs
62 top 5 votes for the Norris

Youre splitting hairs, both had elite seasons so far.

I don't have to split hairs. Subban's been better. Period. Stats say so. Norris votes say so. Playoff performances say so.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Carey Price isn't better than Holtby or Vasilevski, so again, he is not a Trump card against a lot of teams meaning the notion that a more talented team with a flaw can't win but a less talented team with multiple flaws can is asinine.

I think Holtby’s starting to decline even with the Cup run. I agree Vasilevski has probably passed Price at this point. He should be evaluated heavily on playoffs given how good that Tampa team is, but he won’t be because it’s not Montreal.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think Holtby’s starting to decline even with the Cup run. I agree Vasilevski has probably passed Price at this point. He should be evaluated heavily on playoffs given how good that Tampa team is, but he won’t be because it’s not Montreal.

For what it's worth Vasi is .928 on the year. Price is .925 since Weber's return.

I don't think Vas is better than Price. I think he's on a much better team though.

 

[PaulD]

Actually a bunch of people think that if they get in anything can happen. But also don't believe the same is True for Toronto because they have a weak defense which is asinine since our defence isn't better.

Yes, those fans have their Habs beer goggles on.

Leafs dont have the defense to win four rounds. They also dont have the defensive game from their forwards right on down to win four rounds.

Tough division to start with. Imagine to win the Cup having to beat Boston then Tbay, lets say the Caps, then the Knights. ha! the loafs? not a chance.

 

[PaulD]

At five on five he's pretty impactful.

Tried looking it up - man all the sites I used to use are gone. It's hard just to compare RW at 5 on 5 now. Where do you guys go for this? You can only get forwards or only get totals. It pisses me off how hard it is to get basic stats now.

Finding the same problem

 

[PaulD]

Defend ? No one defends it. We lost the trade on value, Subban was worth more and we shouldve got more for him, but to say Subban has been better than Weber since the trade is asinine, both are low end number ones and are looking to be out of the league in three or four years.

Well the PK fan club will have you believe he carries the Predators to the finals on his back.

They dont mention that when Rinne stopped standing on his head they went out with a whimper. PK included. Ditto the follwing year , just two rounds earlier.

But MB should have got a prospect for the fact that Subban was younger. But heY...its MB. Hes a well known idiot.

Subban is 29, but he aint looking like a young 29.

 

[CDN24]

Not as good as Subban. And again, we gave up a clutch playoff performer too. Three years younger...

I just don't get how people can still try to defend this trade. Whatever...

3 years younger- it was 4 at the trade Subban must be catching up in age.

On this one we disagree. Weber has been as good or better than Suban and will continue to be so. Have you watched many preds games this year? suban looks old and slow. I said at the trade his game would break down before Weber based on style they play. It is happening this year. PK has been awful in the games I have watched. looking decidedly slow. yeah Weber is slow but his game is not based on speed. Subban will have to adjust.

In 934 5-5 minutes this year weber has 9G 17A for 26 pts. In 1078 mins subban has 4G 12A.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

3 years younger- it was 4 at the trade Subban must be catching up in age.

On this one we disagree. Weber has been as good or better than Suban and will continue to be so. Have you watched many preds games this year? suban looks old and slow. I said at the trade his game would break down before Weber based on style they play. It is happening this year. PK has been awful in the games I have watched. looking decidedly slow. yeah Weber is slow but his game is not based on speed. Subban will have to adjust.

In 934 5-5 minutes this year weber has 9G 17A for 26 pts. In 1078 mins subban has 4G 12A.

Neither are having good seasons and both have injuries. That doesn't change the fact that Subban's been better since the trade. And even now at his worst his relative analytics are well above his teammates.

As for going forward, injuries will affect the way a player plays and how he's valued. Think back to a few years back when people here felt like Gallagher was done when he kept breaking his hand.

PK Subban could very well break down because of his injuries. It's happened to others in the past and it will happen again. But I highly doubt we've seen the end of elite hockey from him. He's got a lot of great hockey left.

If I were a team looking for D, I'd target him now. His value is lower than it's ever been and he's a huge bounce back candidate. He was their best player in their last two playoff runs and he's only one year removed from another Norris caliber year. Those are guys worth taking risks on.

 

[LaP]

Well the PK fan club will have you believe he carries the Predators to thew finals on his back.

They dont mention that when Rinne stopped standing on his head they went out with a whimper. PK included. Ditto the follwing year , just two rounds earlier.

But MB should have got a prospect for the fact that Subban was younger. But heY...its MB. Hes a well known idiot.

Subban is 29, but he aint looking like a young 29.

I think your view on the world is clouded by your opinion. Nobody ever pretended any player carried a team to a scf. Not once in the history of pro team sports.

 

[scrubadam]

Neither are having good seasons and both have injuries. That doesn't change the fact that Subban's been better since the trade. And even now at his worst his relative analytics are well above his teammates.

What ?? Weber is having a good season this year and if he wasn't injured maybe would of had one of his better seasons. Way to downplay Webers season this year because PK is having one of his worst seasons.

And PK hasn't been better since the trade. The one season he was clearly better was because Weber played 26 games. The first season slight edge to Weber (PK did have some injuries) and this season big edge to Weber. Overall they are pretty close with each being at around .57 vs .59 PPG since the trade. We should factor in the PK was supposed to be a point machine while Weber wasn't and the fact that their PPG is so close is quite telling for PK. Funny enough Weber has 3 more goals than PK in over 50 less games.

Nashville had a great playoff run, but ironic since you always say you can't expect player X to carry the habs look how bad the team is, but its all on PK when Nash makes a good run.

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[CDN24]

Neither are having good seasons and both have injuries. That doesn't change the fact that Subban's been better since the trade. And even now at his worst his relative analytics are well above his teammates.

As for going forward, injuries will affect the way a player plays and how he's valued. Think back to a few years back when people here felt like Gallagher was done when he kept breaking his hand.

PK Subban could very well break down because of his injuries. It's happened to others in the past and it will happen again. But I highly doubt we've seen the end of elite hockey from him. He's got a lot of great hockey left.

If I were a team looking for D, I'd target him now. His value is lower than it's ever been and he's a huge bounce back candidate. He was their best player in their last two playoff runs and he's only one year removed from another Norris caliber year. Those are guys worth taking risks on.

That one is arguable/ Subban 33G 91 a for 124Pts in 206 games. Weber 36G 53A 89pts in 156G. Both have been injured, Weber one big one that cost pretty well a full season and PK lots of little ones. prorate Webers stats over 206 games and you get 48G 70A for 118Pts.

Subban has also had better teammates D partners since the trade. We would never know the answer but I bet that Bergeron would still make the trade today- I'm not so sure Poile would.

His value is low but that $9M AAV is up there.

 

[scrubadam]

That one is arguable/ Subban 33G 91 a for 124Pts in 206 games. Weber 36G 53A 89pts in 156G. Both have been injured, Weber one big one that cost pretty well a full season and PK lots of little ones. prorate Webers stats over 206 games and you get 48G 70A for 118Pts.

Subban has also had better teammates D partners since the trade. We would never know the answer but I bet that Bergeron would still make the trade today- I'm not so sure Poile would.

His value is low but that $9M AAV is up there.

all though I think MB really likes Weber, if both GM's were given the opportunity at a do over and some picks and a good young player was there I think they both do different moves.

Lets say Drai was available for either Weber or PK I can see both GM's choosing to trade for him instead of what they got.

In the end I think both GM's got what they wanted. Polie got out of Webers contract and got a D who has a norris nom and a good playoff run under his belt.

MB got a 1 D who brings leadership, scores goals, and fits with the team better.

Question is, is PK on the decline or is this a blip and he will be back to his 60 point self next season.

IMO I say there is a good chance PK winds up in TOR if they get dumped in the 1st round again this year.

 

[Habs Halifax]

One guy had a Norris nom
One guy led his team to the cup finals

The other is Shea Weber.

Subban did not lead the Preds to the cup finals.

No doubt about it, When Subban is on his game, he is a top 10 NHL D man IMO. Weber at this stage is likely in the 10-20 range but he is way more consistent and plays a much different style of game. The goal scoring power Weber brings year after year is unmatched. Weber's yearly average is higher than Subban's career high

 

[1909]

That one is arguable/ Subban 33G 91 a for 124Pts in 206 games. Weber 36G 53A 89pts in 156G. Both have been injured, Weber one big one that cost pretty well a full season and PK lots of little ones. prorate Webers stats over 206 games and you get 48G 70A for 118Pts.

Subban has also had better teammates D partners since the trade. We would never know the answer but I bet that Bergeron would still make the trade today- I'm not so sure Poile would.

His value is low but that $9M AAV is up there.

Bergevin.

 

[1909]

all though I think MB really likes Weber, if both GM's were given the opportunity at a do over and some picks and a good young player was there I think they both do different moves.

Lets say Drai was available for either Weber or PK I can see both GM's choosing to trade for him instead of what they got.

In the end I think both GM's got what they wanted. Polie got out of Webers contract and got a D who has a norris nom and a good playoff run under his belt.

MB got a 1 D who brings leadership, scores goals, and fits with the team better.

Question is, is PK on the decline or is this a blip and he will be back to his 60 point self next season.

IMO I say there is a good chance PK winds up in TOR if they get dumped in the 1st round again this year.

Nashville don't need Subban. they have Josi, Ekholm, Ellis and few good youngsters in the pipeline.

 

[PaulD]

I think your view on the world is clouded by your opinion. Nobody ever pretended any player carried a team to a scf. Not once in the history of pro team sports.

You obviously missed a few posts..........not to mention a tad of sarcasm too.