Out of Town Thread - Part IX

[Habs Halifax]

A lot of these evaluations are way off..

You can re-list them according to how you feel about it if you wish. It's not an exact science and the point is our depth chart is not worse than the Rangers. For ever player they have, we have one with similar or more value.

Current roster: Habs
Future roster: ??? You can't say the Rangers for sure.

 

[WeThreeKings]

You can re-list them according to how you feel about it if you wish. It's not an exact science and the point is our depth chart is not worse than the Rangers. For ever player they have, we have one with similar or more value.

Current roster: Habs
Future roster: ??? You can't say the Rangers for sure.

I don't really care to, but saying Romanov is better than Kravtsov is pretty disingenuous.

And being in the same ball park as the Rangers isn't something I want to be. They don't have an enviable future and neither do we. Teams with enviable futures are those who have the Matthews, Eichel, etc. Level talents. Something both the Habs and Rangers lack in spades.

 

[CDN24]

Who am I missing in terms of the smallest players in the NHL?

Gaudreau: 5'-9" / 157 Lbs
Byron: 5'-9" / 161 Lbs
Keller: 5'-10" / 170 Lbs
Mete: 5'-9" / 183 Lbs
Yamamoto: 5'-8" / 154 Lbs
Krug: 5'-9" / 185 Lbs
Marchand: 5'-9" / 181 Lbs
Arvidsson: 5'-9" / 180 Lbs
Spurgeon: 5'-9" 168 Lbs
Johnson: 5'-8" 183 Lbs
Atkinson: 5'-8" / 179 Lbs
Sheary: 5'-8" / 175 Lbs
Zuccarello: 5'-8" / 179 Lbs
Marchessault: 5'-9" / 174 Lbs

Gallagher??

 

[PaulD]

Can't be a wash if one of the players is more likely to have more remaining NHL years and is less likely to decline to the level of the player who is older by almost 4 years, as the years take their toll. Remains to be seen of course, but decline due to age can't be disregarded when the Habs's clock is ahead because of this deal.

To date the trade is a wash

 

[PaulD]

I mean, okay...debatable, but okay. Except that's not really what we were told. Apparently Weber was a better fit for us and his leadership is really unparalleled, perhaps the best leader in the NHL. So this trade being a ''wash'' is a pretty big fail.
Adding to this, this alleged better fit and supreme leadership resulted in 1) firing of the coach, 2) early disappointingPO exit, 3) finishing in bottom 5, 4) trading the captain, 5) change of assistant coaches.
Well damn...so much for this improvement we were told this would lead to.

If it's a wash, it's a fail. Weber doesn't bleed Bleu Blanc Rouge. Subban cried in his game back. Ya, I'll take Subban, no doubt about it.

Blubbering? Is that a stat now too.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't really care to, but saying Romanov is better than Kravtsov is pretty disingenuous.

And being in the same ball park as the Rangers isn't something I want to be. They don't have an enviable future and neither do we. Teams with enviable futures are those who have the Matthews, Eichel, etc. Level talents. Something both the Habs and Rangers lack in spades.

Well now I understand why you disagree cause you misread it. I said Romanov = Kravtsov, not is better. Before you use strong confrontation words like Disingenuous, you should understand and not assume. Just re list them if you don't like it. I don't take offense and I think the overall point is going over your head for some reason.

You don't really care too but you dug a hole in the sand and misread the point? Who's being disingenuous here? Please, reply back and tell me I'm the one being difficult.

You disagree? Put your money where your mouth is and re-list them according to how you see it fits? If you can't, you are just barking noise

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

To date the trade is a wash

It's not.

Subban had both higher production in season and playoffs and also was a finalist for the Norris, which Weber was not. He flatout beats Weber for primary points since the trade, despite Weber leading for goals.

It's a wash in your mind, not in facts.

 

[PaulD]

I mean, okay...debatable, but okay. Except that's not really what we were told. Apparently Weber was a better fit for us and his leadership is really unparalleled, perhaps the best leader in the NHL. So this trade being a ''wash'' is a pretty big fail.
Adding to this, this alleged better fit and supreme leadership resulted in 1) firing of the coach, 2) early disappointingPO exit, 3) finishing in bottom 5, 4) trading the captain, 5) change of assistant coaches.
Well damn...so much for this improvement we were told this would lead to.

If it's a wash, it's a fail. Weber doesn't bleed Bleu Blanc Rouge. Subban cried in his game back. Ya, I'll take Subban, no doubt about it.

"Except thats not really what we were told"

Who cares what MB and management "told" everyone. That hardly changes the fact the trade was a wash.

 

[PaulD]

It's not.

Subban had both higher production in season and playoffs and also was a finalist for the Norris, which Weber was not. He flatout beats Weber for primary points since the trade, despite Weber leading for goals.

It's a wash in your mind, not in facts.

Im looking at the teams before and after "the trade"

Neither one improved. Neither one declined.

The needle never moved. That equals a wash.

Which player you prefer is another subject.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

"Except thats not really what we were told"

Who cares what MB and management "told" everyone. That hardly changes the fact the trade was a wash.

Even if you keep repeating this, it won't change reality.

Weber will never drive the play like Subban does, while Subban can shutdown the best players in the playoffs so let's not pretend Weber is better defensively.

Because of this and because Subban is 4 years younger, it'll never be a wash.

Funny, but it's all the usual haters calling it a wash. You, Frank, Jaffy, HabsIcing. The usual suspects.

 

[PaulD]

It's not.

Subban had both higher production in season and playoffs and also was a finalist for the Norris, which Weber was not. He flatout beats Weber for primary points since the trade, despite Weber leading for goals.

It's a wash in your mind, not in facts.

Its not a wash in your mind. But there is not a better Dman in the NHL in your mind than PK Subban.

 

[Perrah]

Im looking at the teams before and after "the trade"

Neither one improved. Neither one declined.

The needle never moved. That equals a wash.

Which player you prefer is another subject.

With that logic the Hall for Larsson trade was a good one after the first year because Edmonton made the playoffs and New Jersey didnt.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Gallagher??

I added him to the list. Thanks.

 

[PaulD]

With that logic the Hall for Larsson trade was a good one after the first year because Edmonton made the playoffs and New Jersey didnt.

Three and half seasons later the trade is a wash.

Oiler trade was won by Devils eventually.

Preds might win this trade like the boys are saying. Especially since PK is younger. But up until now the trade as far as the two teams are concerned is a wash.. Trade has not moved the needle for either club.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Well now I understand why you disagree cause you misread it. I said Romanov = Kravtsov, not is better. Before you use strong confrontation words like Disingenuous, you should understand and not assume. Just re list them if you don't like it. I don't take offense and I think the point is going over your head cause you want a side war debate.

You don't really care too but you dug a hole in the sand and misread the point? Who's being disingenuous here? Please, reply back and tell me I'm the one being difficult.

Changing the sign doesn't alter it in ant way. Kravtsov is easily a better prospect than Romanov.

All I said was the evaluation was skewed on that post to be weighed in Montreal's favor. But even if they weren't, the Rangers aren't a team to be envious of. They lack elite high end talent on their team and in their pool. As do we.

They are two organizations who have been mediocre for awhile who will remain mediocre because they refuse to move high profile players that prevent them from bottoming out to get the elite talent you need to win.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Im looking at the teams before and after "the trade"

Neither one improved. Neither one declined.

The needle never moved. That equals a wash.

Which player you prefer is another subject.

Didnt move the needle? When did Nashville got to the cup finals with Weber? When did Nashville win the president trophy with Weber?

When did the Habs get 110 points with Weber? When did the Habs go twice to the conference finals with Weber?

Yeah... no bias there in your analysis. You simply restrain the scope to only show what confirms your bias. Next thing you'll tell is that we should only look at the season before the trade to compare. Let's limit the scope of the analysis as much as possible so it looks like a wash.

Let's leave it at that. There's no actual fact that will remove your bias so its pointless to continue

Good day

PS dont give me the BS about players breaking out on Nashville's roster, as they were mostly all 24+ (Josi & Ekh) in Weber's last season.

 

[Perrah]

Three and half seasons later the trade is a wash.

Oiler trade was won by Devils eventually.

Preds might win this trade like the boys are saying. Especially since PK is younger. But up until now the trade as far as the two teams are concerned is a wash.. Trade has not moved the needle for either club.

Seems hard to compare who wins a trade based on team performance because there are always other moving parts.

 

[jaffy27]

I'll add to it.

Don't forget Primeau. And how does the Rangers young core measure up to our young core in the NHL? Domi, Drouin, Lehkonen, Mete, Juulsen? We are in a much better spot than them IMO.

I was comparing the first 2 rounds of the last 2 drafts but yes.....

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Its not a wash in your mind. But there is not a better Dman in the NHL in your mind than PK Subban.

Yeah, the usual tactic of putting words in someone's mouth when you're out of arguments.

Find a post where I said that.

Put up or shut up

 

[CDN24]

I added him to the list. Thanks.

He is sometimes easy to forget as a small guy as he plays big. On the Ice Gally at 5 ft 9 about 180 looks and plays bigger than Drouin at 6ft about 200lbs

Gourde in Tampa is another small one. 5ft 9 172.

 

[jaffy27]

Teams don't typically trade their perennial leading point scorer and captain for an inferior player and a prospect and draft pick for sh**s and giggles.

You don't need to put a label on what you're doing like the Rangers did.

Some things are obvious...

Well to some I guess

He just flat out forgot about the biggest trade of the off season.....shows what you’re dealing with

 

[Habs Halifax]

Changing the sign doesn't alter it in ant way. Kravtsov is easily a better prospect than Romanov.

All I said was the evaluation was skewed on that post to be weighed in Montreal's favor. But even if they weren't, the Rangers aren't a team to be envious of. They lack elite high end talent on their team and in their pool. As do we.

They are two organizations who have been mediocre for awhile who will remain mediocre because they refuse to move high profile players that prevent them from bottoming out to get the elite talent you need to win.

100% BS! See snap shot below of the post you replied to (post #949). How can I edit and change the sign in your own post reply? I caught you red handed on this one. You are the one being disingenuous trying to sagest something that don't exist. I said Kravtsov = Romanov. I even clarified it after you misread it and you are still in disbelieve.

Kravtsov "easily" better than Romanov? I disagree. I think this is close either way. You cherry picked one player vs player, got any more you think is "way off" ??

 

[Habs Halifax]

I was comparing the first 2 rounds of the last 2 drafts but yes.....

I know... I added to it and provided a complete team/team breakdown.

I agree about your 1st two round comparisons. Rangers and Habs both have done well and nobody can say one side has significantly better

 

[PaulD]

Yeah, the usual tactic of putting words in someone's mouth when you're out of arguments.

Find a post where I said that.

Put up or shut up

My apologies. If forgot how sensitive you are on this player.

Ill "shut up" on it. and you might try lightening the f*** up .

 

[Habs Halifax]

He is sometimes easy to forget as a small guy as he plays big. On the Ice Gally at 5 ft 9 about 180 looks and plays bigger than Drouin at 6ft about 200lbs

Gourde in Tampa is another small one. 5ft 9 172.

I though about Gallagher but thought he was heavier and didn't search his actual weight. Hart and determination don't equal size. I was just having a conversation with a buddy of mine the other day about the smallest players in the NHL.