Out of Town Thread - Part IX

[ECWHSWI]

Yes, its quicker and Weber is having no trouble keeping up. He has been playing like a Norris winner since he came to MTL.

You can go back and look at the original trade post, lots of very active posters talking about his impending decline, can’t keep up, doesn’t move the puck well, was being carried his partners, etc.

Turns out he skates pretty well, rarely gets beat and has a good first pass.

I’m sure at some point the game will pass him by like it does all players but all signs point to him playing elite hockey for the foreseeable future.

Ironically, PK is the one that looks to have lost some footspeed.

Keeping Up ? Shouldnt the elite players the ones to set Up the pace?

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Bottom line is we were a weak offensive team with Subban, sexy point totals or not.

So if you want to blame Weber for this team scoring 11G in 6 playoff games with Danault as the number one center, then you also have to blame Subban for the lack of team offense in the series mentioned too.

Both arguments are of course, ridiculous as you know. As are the arguments giving credit to the individual player for team accomplishments, or crazier yet, accomplishments of their teammates.

I mean if PK was responsible for Rinnes Vezina last season, then surely he should shoulder the blame for Rinne's less than stellar post season, right?

Talk about disingenuous.

It's good that you find it disingenuous. Maybe next time you'll be able to spot yourself doing it before posting.

"Sexy stats"

Lol

Don't choke on your everlasting bias against Subban

 

[jaffy27]

Molson doesn't have the balls to ever do this. The two biggest teams in the league have opened their eyes and realized their fans needed something greater than perennial mediocrity, and here we are.

Rangers are older, slower, are up against the cap and have less draft picks last draft and this upcoming draft than our Habs.....ya, nice rebuild!!

 

[Frank Drebin]

It's good that you find it disingenuous. Maybe next time you'll be able to spot yourself doing it before posting.

"Sexy stats"

Lol

Don't choke on your everlasting bias against Subban

If you haven't noticed, I only make disingenuous replies to disingenuous arguments.

Like, if PK was the reason that Nashville was finally able to get past the second round hump in the playoffs, then he must also be the reason why the his presidents trophy winning team choked in the second round.

Don't like my silly replies? Stop saying silly things.

 

[Frank Drebin]

@Ozymandias

I'm not crying here, honest

 

[PaulD]

It's good that you find it disingenuous. Maybe next time you'll be able to spot yourself doing it before posting.

"Sexy stats"

Lol

Don't choke on your everlasting bias against Subban

Shocker. Ozy defending Subban. (you might be his biggest fan)

 

[PaulD]

Habs are no worse without PK.

Preds are no worse without Weber.

Habs are no better with Weber.

Preds are no better with PK.

Trade was a wash if there ever was one.

 

[Runner77]

Habs are no worse without PK.

Preds are no worse without Weber.

Habs are no better with Weber.

Preds are no better with PK.

Trade was a wash if there ever was one.

Can't be a wash if one of the players is more likely to have more remaining NHL years and is less likely to decline to the level of the player who is older by almost 4 years, as the years take their toll. Remains to be seen of course, but decline due to age can't be disregarded when the Habs's clock is ahead because of this deal.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Shocker. Ozy defending Subban. (you might be his biggest fan)

Or objectively, the player who has 150% ppg more in the playoffs is more likely to produce offense in the playoffs?

I mean, i guess I would look a lot less biased if I simply described stats as sexy.

If I would've said the latter, it's probably because I would have dozens of even better arguments, right?

So where will you shoot next? Message? Messenger? Message? Messenger?

 

[Prairie Habs]

 

[Mrb1p]

Rangers are older, slower, are up against the cap and have less draft picks last draft and this upcoming draft than our Habs.....ya, nice rebuild!!

The Rangers had five first rounder in the past two drafts....

 

[Runner77]

The Rangers had five first rounder in the past two drafts....

How would you say they did in the last two drafts? I believe reviews here were not all that flattering about K'Andre Miller as I recall (something about how he's more of an athlete than a skilled hockey player).

New York Rangers Draft History at hockeydb.com

 

[Mrb1p]

How would you say they did in the last two drafts? I believe reviews here were not all that flattering about K'Andre Miller as I recall (something about how he's more of an athlete than a skilled hockey player).

New York Rangers Draft History at hockeydb.com

I dont like Miller at all but I do love Lundkvist, Chytil and Kravtsov.

 

[bsl]

Weber is great, but he cannot do what PK can do. PK on the other hand can be used to neutralize the other teams best players and in turn create offense.

This was a bad hockey trade, initiated by a coach who had a hatred for PK. Had MB kept PK and traded for Weber, now that would have been an amazing deal.

Have you been watching Subban play this year?

 

[bsl]

Weber won't be able to do what PK does even moreso as he ages. Even if one argues that the trade is somehow even, then give me the guy who is almost 4 years younger.

Seriously, are any of you watching Subban this year?

 

[Andrei79]

How would you say they did in the last two drafts? I believe reviews here were not all that flattering about K'Andre Miller as I recall (something about how he's more of an athlete than a skilled hockey player).

New York Rangers Draft History at hockeydb.com

Not a fan of them drafting Lias Andersson where they did, but I like all of their first round picks, Miller included (I disliked his game to start his D-1, but he made big strides up to the U18s). They're all performing very well. Kravtsov is awesome, in particular.

 

[Andrei79]

Have you been watching Subban play this year?

Last time I watched him he was brutal. Looked like he was carrying an anvil and made some boneheaded plays. It's most likely the injury, though. Every year he does seem like he loses a step though.

 

[417]

Last time I watched him he was brutal. Looked like he was carrying an anvil and made some boneheaded plays. It's most likely the injury, though. Every year he does seem like he loses a step though.

Foot speed is a legitimate concern right now with Subban.

 

[scrubadam]

Hmm...Didn't Price win every possible individual trophy when PK played here?..

He did, which goes to my point both teams got good players and it wasn't a horrible trade. Weber and PK can both still be good players. The trade was a wash for both teams.

 

[Miller Time]

Habs are no worse without PK.

Preds are no worse without Weber.

Habs are no better with Weber.

Preds are no better with PK.

Trade was a wash if there ever was one.

This makes no sense, unless you feel Weber is/has been better for the Habs than PK has been for the preds...

Younger. Better contract. 1 team improved on their performance & made first final in franchise history, the other secured one of the worst seasons in franchise history.

Preds won the trade hands down, which doesn't mean Weber is bad, Subban is just better & younger.

 

[Runner77]

Seriously, are any of you watching Subban this year?

I only know he was injured but wasn't aware that his play had regressed. Is this a result of his injury? Is it permanent regression? I don't know enough to answer. I understand he was activated at the end of December, so I'm not sure if he was rushed or if he's not completely healed.

We've seen the effects on a player who returns from injury and is not 100%, as it happened when Galchenyuk was activated from IR when he was a Hab and he was totally underperforming in the second half of the season. The following year however, he was fully recovered.

You guys know something about his condition to be able to say that in the month that Subban has returned from injury, he's become a permanently diminished player?

 

[Kriss E]

Foot speed is a legitimate concern right now with Subban.

This is a perfect example of how ''foot work'' training is essentially useless.
PK is all about foot work drills...moving his feet so quick it makes you dizzy so really, that's not his problem.
Problem with PK is he's carrying an extra 10-15lbs, he would be way more effective cutting down a bit imo.
If you followed the OT Fitness thread, I questionned PK's summer training a lot in there. Was playing around hurdles and pointless footwork speed...doing way too much track work.
I argued how a lot of his summer training wasn't going to translate well to his game and that seems to have been a spot on prediction.

The last thing he needs is more foot work. Put this game in an all-star footwork competition, he'll win it by a landslide. Problem with that is it doesn't translate to the actual gameplay very well. If you look at most of the comparative Dman, the Letang, Karlsson, Chabot, Doughty, Josi...they all hover around 6-6'2 weighing around 190-200lbs, PK is at 210. He really doesn't need to be this big, and we're not talking 210 jacked AF, he's got some flab on him that needs to go and definitely change some of his off season training.

 

[NotProkofievian]

At the precipice of the entropy death of the universe: ''See, told ya the Subban-Weber trade was a wash.''

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I only know he was injured but wasn't aware that his play had regressed. Is this a result of his injury? Is it permanent regression? I don't know enough to answer. I understand he was activated at the end of December, so I'm not sure if he was rushed or if he's not completely healed.

We've seen the effects of a player who returns from injury and is not 100%, as it happened when Galchenyuk was activated from IR when he was a Hab and he was totally underperforming in the second half of the season. The following year however, he was fully recovered.

You guys know something about his condition to be able to say that in the month that Subban has returned from injury, he's become a permanently diminished player?

Some time ago when Subban was not playing I believe preds management said he had a nagging injury but that “he would play if it were playoffs”.

I don’t know if he’s 100% or not but we’ve seen the effects nagging injuries can have on players. Look at a guy like spezza who was an all star but had nagging back injuries and now is far from elite.

What has Subban missed 49 games over last 3.5 years? You guessed it...back, neck...”upper body”. If his upper body is going through things and his speed is regressing there’s a problem.

It’s still too early to tell but I’ve brought this up even before. Getting nagging injuries before you’re 30 isn’t a great thing. If he needs time to recover they should force him to take it. If he’s not injured, that’s worse.

 

[Kriss E]

He did, which goes to my point both teams got good players and it wasn't a horrible trade. Weber and PK can both still be good players. The trade was a wash for both teams.

I mean, okay...debatable, but okay. Except that's not really what we were told. Apparently Weber was a better fit for us and his leadership is really unparalleled, perhaps the best leader in the NHL. So this trade being a ''wash'' is a pretty big fail.
Adding to this, this alleged better fit and supreme leadership resulted in 1) firing of the coach, 2) early disappointingPO exit, 3) finishing in bottom 5, 4) trading the captain, 5) change of assistant coaches.
Well damn...so much for this improvement we were told this would lead to.

If it's a wash, it's a fail. Weber doesn't bleed Bleu Blanc Rouge. Subban cried in his game back. Ya, I'll take Subban, no doubt about it.