Out of Town Thread 2021: Part 8

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Lafleurs Guy

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Jul 20, 2007
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Also, have we stopped whining about Mete yet? Is he the new Barberio?
I didn't read a single post that "whined" about anything in regards to him.

If you mean the valid criticism towards how he was handled by the organization, yeah people aren't discussing it anymore. It was a relevant discussion when it happened and posters rightly slammed the organization for mishandling the situation. Then everyone moved on because who wants to discuss a fringe NHLer beyond when he moves on?

Everyone except you I guess.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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:lol: could not disagree more

Pacioretty was, definitively, the best forward on the roster his last 3-5 years here, in his "prime". So add an elite star like stone, plus the 4 guys you dismissed as "merely solid second-liners", all of which would have quite likely been the next best forward on any of those habs rosters, or at least the equivalent...

that's a significant difference. Think about it, in 9 years MB hasn't been able to add 1 elite forward... Stone alone makes it quite "unlike" those habs rosters.
At no point did we have a great team here. We had great players though and we badly misused the rosters we had. Despite this we STILL managed some first place finishes. Imagine if MB had actually done his job.

As for Vegas, it's cool that an expansion franchise was able to realize success so quickly. For them to get to the finals in their first year was just flat out insane.
 

JianYang

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Sep 29, 2017
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:lol: could not disagree more

Pacioretty was, definitively, the best forward on the roster his last 3-5 years here, in his "prime". So add an elite star like stone, plus the 4 guys you dismissed as "merely solid second-liners", all of which would have quite likely been the next best forward on any of those habs rosters, or at least the equivalent...

that's a significant difference. Think about it, in 9 years MB hasn't been able to add 1 elite forward... Stone alone makes it quite "unlike" those habs rosters.

Vegas has always struck me as a very good team, but one that has always been missing that top end center to get them over the hump.

Karlsson went nuts in the first year and did an amazing job, but unless I'm forgetting someone, they have yet to find that true top notch center, and in that respect, Vegas actually shares something with MB.
 

beowulf

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Jan 29, 2005
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Pietrangelo and Theodore there is not much different from having Markov and Subban here.

Tuch is an interesting up-and-comer for sure, but Marchessault and Karlsson have settled down into merely solid second-liners. I'm not exactly sure what to think of Stephenson's actual skill level either.

Vegas as it is currently constructed is not unlike some of the early Bergevin Habs teams.
Really? And yet this Vegas team is in their 4th year and so far have reached the Cup finals, lost in round one and then reached the Semi finals. Trust me, they are much better built than any Habs squad under Bergevin.
 

dinodebino

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Sep 27, 2017
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Tonight, Figs have Foligno in the lineup. Will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
 

BigDaddyLurch

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Tonight, Figs have Foligno in the lineup. Will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

Honestly, that addition is exactly what the Laffs needed...that grit and drive that makes Hyman a good Top 6 fit for them and now they have two grunts that'll do the dirty work for the skill guys...as much as I HATE the Laffs, Dubas made them a better team at the deadline with a couple of really smart moves...now we have to see how Foligno meshes with Pornstache & Co...
 
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BLONG7

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Hopefully, the leafs get their 6th loss in a row tonight............goaltending still a huge question there......kinda nice we started their slide...
Jack Vezina Campbell has returned to earth.
 

SirClintonPortis

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Really? And yet this Vegas team is in their 4th year and so far have reached the Cup finals, lost in round one and then reached the Semi finals. Trust me, they are much better built than any Habs squad under Bergevin.
Ah, not qutie. George McPhee is a master of building a prospect pool but he's really, really bad at pro scouting and trading. He rarely gets good value in trades for established players. Being at par, like with his Pacioretty trade, is the most you can hope for. But his ability to get prospects gives him enormous leeway to recover from such mistakes, which is why the Flip Forsberg trade did not stop the Washington Capitals from eventually getting their goal, although McPhee had to be fired for someone better at pro trades. I know McPhee has upgraded his position and is no longer GM, but his successors prints will take some time to set in.

Vegas has quietly been changed rather substantially since that inaugural season.

Miller and Schmidt are gone. Theodore, then just an ignored prospect, is now the top D of the team. I haven't watch him much, but in the glimpses during his year before his "breakout", he showed shades of Subban maneuvers. In fact, his career trajectory production-wise is quite similar to Subban, but with Subban breaking out one year sooner.

James Neal is no longer there.

Reilly Smith has always been that "vanilla" forward in which he can be passable on a line but is really replaceable. He has regressed this season.

Paul Stastny was there as depth last year. He is not there now.

As I've mentioned before, Marchessault and Karlsson have cooled from their contract year surge. They are 20/30 guys these days and not the near point-per-game players they were in that Cinderella run.

Pietrangelo hasn't really done much offensively this year. Alec Martinez has done more.

Their D of Theodore, Pietrangelo, and Martinez is comparable to when we had Petry, Markov, and Subban.

The Vegas Golden Knights now, are a quality regular season team, but they have some considerable question marks regarding being Cup contenders. Just like the Caps in the late 90s had that one Cinderella run and got wrecked by Detroit. They never went back and eventually had to blow up that core of Bondra, Gonchar, etc and tank for OV or Malkin.

The Knights first line is Pac-C-Stone.
Second line is Marchessault-Karlsson-RW
But then their third and fourth line are not exactly world beaters. Nosek is their most productive grinder.
 

SirClintonPortis

ProudCapitalsTraitor
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:lol: could not disagree more

Pacioretty was, definitively, the best forward on the roster his last 3-5 years here, in his "prime". So add an elite star like stone, plus the 4 guys you dismissed as "merely solid second-liners", all of which would have quite likely been the next best forward on any of those habs rosters, or at least the equivalent...

that's a significant difference. Think about it, in 9 years MB hasn't been able to add 1 elite forward... Stone alone makes it quite "unlike" those habs rosters.
Early Bergevin was still riding the coattails of Gauthier and Gainey's work. So year one, we could trot out our THIRD LINE of Gallagher, Galchenyuk, and Prust; two rookies and probably Bergevin's best grinder signing. I even used the moniker Prallchengher in honor of that configuration. We had a quality regular season team but not quite the extra oomph need for the playoffs.
 

Miller Time

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Sep 16, 2004
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Vegas has always struck me as a very good team, but one that has always been missing that top end center to get them over the hump.

Karlsson went nuts in the first year and did an amazing job, but unless I'm forgetting someone, they have yet to find that true top notch center, and in that respect, Vegas actually shares something with MB.

yes, sure, Karlsson is not/has not been an elite #1C... the point is that Pacioretty has far better "run support" in Vegas that is contributing to his career-best output and upward productivity trend. In montreal he was the best forward, by a wide-margin, for the bulk of his mid-20's.

Since arriving in the league, in their 3 offseasons (not counting their expansion draft year), they've added core/elite pieces each year...

Statsny & Pacioretty in year one (statsny didn't live up to contract, but was one of the top UFA's and best top-6/top-line options available that year & had team USA chemistry with Pacioretty, whom they targeted to replace the failed deadline acquisition of tatar)
Stone & Lehner
Pietrangelo

so no, nothing at all like Mtl under MB. Every year Vegas aggressively attempts to upgrade in talent areas of need, and Pacioretty (one of those additions) is far better set up to succeed in that environment (and doing so) than he ever was in Montreal.
 

Miller Time

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Sep 16, 2004
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Early Bergevin was still riding the coattails of Gauthier and Gainey's work. So year one, we could trot out our THIRD LINE of Gallagher, Galchenyuk, and Prust; two rookies and probably Bergevin's best grinder signing. I even used the moniker Prallchengher in honor of that configuration. We had a quality regular season team but not quite the extra oomph need for the playoffs.

9 years dude... there's no excuses and the only explanation for it is MB's incompetence.

in any one of those early years, had MB shown the kind of roster building competence required of the role, he would have leveraged our considerably strong prospect pool and/or 1sts to add the top-6 and top-4 talent we needed to go from pretender to legit contender. The quality of roster and cap situation he inherited completely set him up to do so, instead he tinkered around the bargain bin and oversaw the implosion of our top-5 rated prospect pool en route to one of the worst stretches in franchise history... to je to
 
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habsfan92

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I didn't read a single post that "whined" about anything in regards to him.

If you mean the valid criticism towards how he was handled by the organization, yeah people aren't discussing it anymore. It was a relevant discussion when it happened and posters rightly slammed the organization for mishandling the situation. Then everyone moved on because who wants to discuss a fringe NHLer beyond when he moves on?

Everyone except you I guess.
That’s very Karen-esque of you to bring me up to speed, thanks.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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Jul 20, 2007
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Leafs vs Jets, 3 min 19 sec in, shots 2-2, score 2-1, kind like basketball game.
Jets are fun to watch. Lotsa speed, little in the way of D. Good times.

Jesus...3-2 Laffs...just over halfway through the 1st...Hellebuyck gone...
Hellebuyck has probably been awesome for Winnipeg over the past few years. Somehow that D has managed to be worse than ours.
 

BigDaddyLurch

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Jets are fun to watch. Lotsa speed, little in the way of D. Good times.


Hellebuyck has probably been awesome for Winnipeg over the past few years. Somehow that D has managed to be worse than ours.

Everyone but Pionk thinks they are a PMD, like Chairot does for us...and their "best" PMD, Morrisey, is a bleeping disaster everywhere on the ice; has good offensive talent but is a train wreck most of the time...he's the defense version of Johnny Floaty...
 

BigDaddyLurch

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I know I'm in the minority for thinking this, but I see Hellebuyck as a Holtby clone...will have a few good years, but won't be an upper echelon goalie year in-year out...
 

Gaylord Q Tinkledink

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I know I'm in the minority for thinking this, but I see Hellebuyck as a Holtby clone...will have a few good years, but won't be an upper echelon goalie year in-year out...

I feel like he's a lower tier Price.

He can be absolutely magnificent, but then put up a game where you're not sure if he's even NHL caliber.
 

BigDaddyLurch

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I feel like he's a lower tier Price.

He can be absolutely magnificent, but then put up a game where you're not sure if he's even NHL caliber.

That's why I compared him with Holtby...even in his "best years" in Washington, he could look like a Vezina lock one game and an ECHLer the next...bad goals have always plagued Holtby and I see the same in Hellebuyck...Holtby was nowhere near Price in their primes and I don't see Hellebuyck ever there either...
 
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