Out of Town Thread: 2018-2019 IV

[Habs Halifax]

They were quick to call the trade a win, too.

It's HF boards. Premature evaluation runs wild

 

[Habs Halifax]

A popular view on this site has been that Galchenyuk is a lazy, no vision, slow-skating, defensively-inept, bad at faceoffs, not-effective-at-centre power play specialist whose only legitimate skill is his wrist shot.

It's too early to say if they're right or wrong. We'll see.

Same can be said about Laine. Galchenyuk is an offensive skilled player. I didn't like the trade when it went down cause we gave up the player with more upside and felt that we gave up on him too early. Domi is slightly younger and more under team control for several seasons. Domi has also blended much better on our team. However, Galchenyuk is going to put up points on that Coyotes team cause they will play him in an offensive role and keep him there.

Should be interested to watch these two and maybe both excel on their new teams. It would be a good story and good trade for both teams.

 

[Kriss E]

A popular view on this site has been that Galchenyuk is a lazy, no vision, slow-skating, defensively-inept, bad at faceoffs, not-effective-at-centre power play specialist whose only legitimate skill is his wrist shot.

It's too early to say if they're right or wrong. We'll see.

It's a wonder he made the NHL.

 

[Whitesnake]

A popular view on this site has been that Galchenyuk is a lazy, no vision, slow-skating, defensively-inept, bad at faceoffs, not-effective-at-centre power play specialist whose only legitimate skill is his wrist shot.

It's too early to say if they're right or wrong. We'll see.

Well....he was traded. So was Domi. And sometimes, that's all it takes to stop being lazy. Then, it is a fact that he doesn't have the greatest vision. And that he is defensively inept. Him scoring goals or adding points has nothing to do with that. Centerman? Well that remains to be seen. I sure hoped we had given him more chances to shine there. But like I said before, most importantly, a trade is often the only thing a player need. And it might be the case for him. Just like it might be the case for Domi. But Galchenyuk was always the guy with the most points in his draft year....so in no way shape or form should he had been seen as a bad player.

 

[sandviper]

Both Galchenyuk and Domi have their strengths and weaknesses but ultimately both needed a fresh start. Good it is working out for everyone so far.

 

[DAChampion]

Well....he was traded. So was Domi. And sometimes, that's all it takes to stop being lazy. Then, it is a fact that he doesn't have the greatest vision. And that he is defensively inept. Him scoring goals or adding points has nothing to do with that. Centerman? Well that remains to be seen. I sure hoped we had given him more chances to shine there. But like I said before, most importantly, a trade is often the only thing a player need. And it might be the case for him. Just like it might be the case for Domi. But Galchenyuk was always the guy with the most points in his draft year....so in no way shape or form should he had been seen as a bad player.

Galchenyuk "doesn't have the greatest vision", I agree that he isn't Crosby, but his vision is comfortably above average. Few forwards in the NHL would get 30+ assists/year with the ice time and line mates that Galchenyuk had.

The same people who said that Galchenyuk has no vision would often say that Desharnais has "elite vision", the latter needed more minutes and better line mates to achieve comparable assist totals.

 

[DAChampion]

I don't have proof, but I suspect that one issue with the "he has no vision" comments that players have lobbed at each of Plekanec, Eller, and Galchenyuk is that good players actually adapt to their line mates over time.

I think that smart players, who play with weak line mates who cannot bury their chances to save their lives, will eventually switch to passing less and shooting more. This habit may last for a while even if they get better line mates, leading to posters saying that "this guy is a puck hog".

When I watched Eller early in his NHL career, I thought that he had great vision and made many nice passes. He had a high assist-to-goals ratio in the AHL. However, what consistently happened is that his lovely passes to Bourque would lead to the latter fanning on the puck, and the play would die. Overtime, Eller passed less and less, and he started doing things like circling in the offensive zone (which still has value). Fans concluded that "Eller is a puck hog, he has no vision and no IQ !"

But it wasn't true, it was an adaptation. He's actually passing just fine in Washington now that he has line mates who can shoot, not Rene Bourque and not Jacob De La Rose. In 209 total (regular season + playoffs) games, he has 37 goals and 49 assists, which is great on both counts for a third line centre.

I think that the same happened with Plekanec and Galchenyuk. They played with bad line mates for a long time, so they shifted more and more to shooting. That habit can be broken by having better line mates, but it may take a while.

Separately, we should not refer to goal scorers as "one-dimensional" -- scoring goals is literally the single most important dimension that a forward can have. Yes, it's one dimension, but it's the largest one. Ultimately what matters most is "goals created", and so a goal is probably 1.2 to 1.5 assists. For a fixed number of points, a higher goals-to-assists ratio is better.

 

[26Mats]

Galchenyuk "doesn't have the greatest vision", I agree that he isn't Crosby, but his vision is comfortably above average. Few forwards in the NHL would get 30+ assists/year with the ice time and line mates that Galchenyuk had.

The same people who said that Galchenyuk has no vision would often say that Desharnais has "elite vision", the latter needed more minutes and better line mates to achieve comparable assist totals.

Glachenyuk with a great second effort to score his goal last night. He won the puck battle with a great and gritty Mark Stone and buried it.

I think there was a way to get Domi without giving him up. But Bergevin takes high skill players for granted and wanted him gone.

 

[Andy]

It's funny, before his draft, Galchenyuk was described as anything but lazy. They said he had an incredible work ethic and that's why some scouts thought he'd bounce back after his injury.

Still don't understand where the Galchenyuk is lazy narrative came from - probably tied to his heritage.

In any event, I hope both Domi and Galchenyuk do well. There's no reason to hate on either player.

 

[DAChampion]

It's funny, before his draft, Galchenyuk was described as anything but lazy. They said he had an incredible work ethic and that's why some scouts thought he'd bounce back after his injury.

Still don't understand where the Galchenyuk is lazy narrative came from - probably tied to his heritage.

In any event, I hope both Domi and Galchenyuk do well. There's no reason to hate on either player.

I also think that laziness is a learned behaviour, to an extent.

I'm a supervisor in real life. I know that positive reinforcement, fairness, and transparency can help cultivate a better work ethic; whereas negative reinforcement, favoritism, and lack of transparency will do the opposite.

Galchenyuk spent years in an environment where he knew that it didn't matter how hard he worked or how well he played. That would undermine any player's love and passion for the game.

 

[Whitesnake]

Galchenyuk "doesn't have the greatest vision", I agree that he isn't Crosby, but his vision is comfortably above average. Few forwards in the NHL would get 30+ assists/year with the ice time and line mates that Galchenyuk had.

The same people who said that Galchenyuk has no vision would often say that Desharnais has "elite vision", the latter needed more minutes and better line mates to achieve comparable assist totals.

There is a difference between no vision and not the greatest vision. I don't think it's his greatest feature. His shot is. His scoring ability is. But again, a trade can change a player. Max Domi also was not a great scorer. He doesn't shoot. Doesn't have a shot. And yet.....

And while it does help to compare, you can't solely put points as an example of who has vision or not. DD had a great vision. But if you don't have the puck a lot. If you keep being not fast enough. Or not strong enough to keep it. It STILL doesn't mean your vision isn't elite. But it means what it means...if you can't do shit with an elite vision....well it's no good either.

 

[PaulD]

Players get a 2 minutes penalty for delay of game when throwing the puck into the stands but refs can take 20 minutes to take a decision on a call, logic.

I like this post ..... send it to the NHL

 

[PaulD]

Its close but I would take Chucky over Domi if made to choose when selecting a team.

 

[26Mats]

It's funny, before his draft, Galchenyuk was described as anything but lazy. They said he had an incredible work ethic and that's why some scouts thought he'd bounce back after his injury.

Still don't understand where the Galchenyuk is lazy narrative came from - probably tied to his heritage.

In any event, I hope both Domi and Galchenyuk do well. There's no reason to hate on either player.

I agree with you. But when Julien had him on the 4th line at the beginning of the year last year, he said it was because there was no way he could play Galchneyuk over guys like Byron that give it everything every shift.

I think he was confusing "playing the right way" with effort - although Drouin was making the same amount of, if not more, turnovers, but that's another can of worms. I think Julien had gotten Galchenyuk to play better defensively and they were on their way as far as their player-coach relationship.

But Bergevin just doesn't value his stars (imo Chucky was our 2nd best offensive player last year after Gallagher). He took Subban, Radulov, Markov, and now Glachenyuk for granted. It's horrible. I like the new team's emphasis on speed and effort and playing fast. But those qualities aren't antithetical to high skill and talent. Our biggest weakness is our lack of talent, and it doesn't have to be. We could have kept Galchenyuk and brought in players like Skinner and Perron who were available this summer and play hard. Instead our GM, in true to form fashion, focused on Armia and Peca - and getting rid of Galchenyuk. Although I'll give him praise for the return on the Galchenyuk trade.

 

[26Mats]

Its close but I would take Chucky over Domi if made to choose selecting a team.

I loved Galchneyuk, despite his imperfections. But I also really like Domi so far. I will need a bigger sample size. Yet, ultimately it's a hard projection. Galchneyuk has quite high upside, but it's not a sure thing that he'll reach it. But I think Domi has high upside too. The biggest thing with Domi is if he'll learn when to shoot. So far he's been doing well on that front.

 

[Whitesnake]

It's funny, before his draft, Galchenyuk was described as anything but lazy. They said he had an incredible work ethic and that's why some scouts thought he'd bounce back after his injury.

Still don't understand where the Galchenyuk is lazy narrative came from - probably tied to his heritage.

In any event, I hope both Domi and Galchenyuk do well. There's no reason to hate on either player.

Some players can easily deal with the fame of being in the NHL. Some don't. Some once they are in, believe that they are done. And that talent alone will provide. Often it doesn't. Galchenyuk dominated with his talent in juniors. But you need that extra work to make it happen in the NHL. Seems that it went personal for him with all his ''problems'' that surely put hockey on the back seat. But his talent alone, again, made him the top scorer of his draft class. I don't usually believe in the he had to go statement, but in his case, that probably was true.

 

[DAChampion]

There is a difference between no vision and not the greatest vision. I don't think it's his greatest feature. His shot is. His scoring ability is. But again, a trade can change a player. Max Domi also was not a great scorer. He doesn't shoot. Doesn't have a shot. And yet.....

And while it does help to compare, you can't solely put points as an example of who has vision or not. DD had a great vision. But if you don't have the puck a lot. If you keep being not fast enough. Or not strong enough to keep it. It STILL doesn't mean your vision isn't elite. But it means what it means...if you can't do **** with an elite vision....well it's no good either.

But that's not what Galchenyuk's critics. They're not just saying that he doesn't have the greatest vision, which is obviously true. They mean that he doesn't have good vision, and that's preposterous.

Also, what matters most is total passing ability. If a player hypothetically has less vision IQ, but somehow has more space and time to make passes due to better positioning or a better shot that the opposing team fears, then it works out either way.

 

[Price is Wright]

Oh boy, the fresh start talk.

If Tocchet was the Habs coach, Galchenyuk would have been a centre and never traded because the results would be there.

Domi did need a fresh start because he was unhappy in Arizona and couldn't score there. But Galchenyuk just needed a coach who trusted him. You don't need a new team for that unless your team puts trust in Russian hating centre killers.

 

[waffledave]

It's funny, before his draft, Galchenyuk was described as anything but lazy. They said he had an incredible work ethic and that's why some scouts thought he'd bounce back after his injury.

Still don't understand where the Galchenyuk is lazy narrative came from - probably tied to his heritage.

In any event, I hope both Domi and Galchenyuk do well. There's no reason to hate on either player.

Before the draft he was advertised as American and everyone loved that. When they heard him talk they started to call him Russian even though he only lived there when he was young and is actually Belarusian, though that didn't stop anyone from saying the same about the Kostitsyns and Grabovski.

 

[Perrah]

A popular view on this site has been that Galchenyuk is a lazy, no vision, slow-skating, defensively-inept, bad at faceoffs, not-effective-at-centre power play specialist whose only legitimate skill is his wrist shot.

It's too early to say if they're right or wrong. We'll see.

Too early you say? Some of Galchenyuks detractors couldnt run to Arizona's board fast enough after the trade lol.

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[jaffy27]

I also think that laziness is a learned behaviour, to an extent.

I'm a supervisor in real life. I know that positive reinforcement, fairness, and transparency can help cultivate a better work ethic; whereas negative reinforcement, favoritism, and lack of transparency will do the opposite.

Galchenyuk spent years in an environment where he knew that it didn't matter how hard he worked or how well he played. That would undermine any player's love and passion for the game.

Much of Galchenyuk’s shortcomings was because of Galchenyuk himself.

Coaches don’t bench productive players that play a sound defensive game just for the hell of it, coach-#1 did it and so did coach #2. He was left off the under 23 team a few years back and he was demoted from the top line at the U20WJC......did all this happen because it was everyone’s fault and no fault of his??

Galchenyuk was one of my favourite players and I really hoped he wouldn't get traded...I just wanted him as a trigger man cause damn he’s got a howitzer of a shot (when it hits the net), but I’ll never pretend like he was a great stick handler or could play a sound defensive game like barely 18 year old Kotka.

His off ice issues definitely did not help him on the ice either.....it’s too bad, but here’s hoping he’s grown from this and can focus on hockey and making hockey a top priority in his life.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

NHL Power Rankings: The scariest thing about each team this Halloween, for better or worse

pet peeve: power rankings always seem to mention Carey Price when it comes to the Habs. but IMO he hasn't had much impact on this season so far (one way or another). to me, the surprisingly balanced Top 9 is the main story... thoughts?

 

[26Mats]

Some players can easily deal with the fame of being in the NHL. Some don't. Some once they are in, believe that they are done. And that talent alone will provide. Often it doesn't. Galchenyuk dominated with his talent in juniors. But you need that extra work to make it happen in the NHL. Seems that it went personal for him with all his ''problems'' that surely put hockey on the back seat. But his talent alone, again, made him the top scorer of his draft class. I don't usually believe in the he had to go statement, but in his case, that probably was true.

I'm not clear on why you think he had to go. Why did he have to go?