Out of the Loop: Why is Everywhere Talking like Andersen is Going?

[goleafsgo1990]

He’s way past chess. Only he and about 3 members here actually have the capacity to see what he’s doing.

and he also happens to be two of those members.

 

[TOGuy14]

I'm not too high on Murray.

Looking like another Cam Ward

 

[kb]

Well if he is badly hurt than yes totally agree stay away. I did not realize he was in bad shape.

It's definitely concerning, since 3 of his injuries were concussions apparently.

 

[bodechek]

When you say this, are you referring to this year only? Freddy has given up bad goals in the playoff dating back to his first playoff series against the Bruins four season ago. He has let in a bad goal in every playoff series he has played in for the Leafs. We can use his workload and the defense as an excuse, but some of those goals there is no excuse for them. Especially when the opposing player is along the goal line and virtually NO angle to score a goal. That cannot and should not go in! As for Murray, I don't know if he is really the answer, but he has won two Stanley Cups and knows what it takes to win. He has elevated his game to get to that point, something Freddy has yet to do. I know two different teams, but you can't take away those Stanley Cup wins.

 

[Primary Assist]

0-8 when it counts. It was not just da house league goals you mentioned above when games were on da line.

Agreed, that 0-8 looks awful. But that's a team 0-8, and whether we had Murray, Price, Rask, or even Patrick Roy in net, there's no guarantee we win those elimination games. Fred's contract situation should be the main reason he gets moved, certainly not his talent or his character.

Starting goaltenders rarely get traded during the season (except for situations like with Lehner, when he was acquired to be a back-up/Plan B starter if Fleury struggled) so Fred's value should be at the highest right now. But at the same time, we don't even know when the next NHL season is going to start - without guaranteed gate revenue, a lot of owners will be fighting to push back the start date or risk operating deep into the red. There's also a decent amount of goalies available on the trading block right now, there's Holtby, the former Vezina winner as a UFA, and then next year we see former Vezina winners Rinne and Rask become available as UFA.

There's just so much in flux it's hard to gauge the actual value of Freddie, and if making a trade in net would actually improve this roster.

To Bodechek: Yes, those goals suck. And I'm a goalie coach, so I 100% understand that just sticking to fundamentals can prevent those from happening. But you'd be amazed at the amount of "bad goals" that every single goalie allows during a playoff series. JvR's goal on Varlamov last night was almost identical to the one Freddie allowed against Atkinson (himself a 40 goal scorer), but I doubt that Isles fans will even remember that goal once the playoffs are over. Without the 18 skaters in front of Freddie giving themselves a chance to win, such as by getting shut out in games 1 and 5, Freddie can really only do so much to help his team.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Agreed, that 0-8 looks awful. But that's a team 0-8, and whether we had Murray, Price, Rask, or even Patrick Roy in net, there's no guarantee we win those elimination games. Fred's contract situation should be the main reason he gets moved, certainly not his talent or his character.

Starting goaltenders rarely get traded during the season (except for situations like with Lehner, when he was acquired to be a back-up/Plan B starter if Fleury struggled) so Fred's value should be at the highest right now. But at the same time, we don't even know when the next NHL season is going to start - without guaranteed gate revenue, a lot of owners will be fighting to push back the start date or risk operating deep into the red. There's also a decent amount of goalies available on the trading block right now, there's Holtby, the former Vezina winner as a UFA, and then next year we see former Vezina winners Rinne and Rask become available as UFA.

There's just so much in flux it's hard to gauge the actual value of Freddie, and if making a trade in net would actually improve this roster.

But he could not figure out a way in 8 games over 4 years to win JUST 1 by himself. There is something missing with Freddy. He does not have da eye of da tiger in him. But he is a solid goalie in NHL. I still put him in 12-15 range of tenders. and we need to get something we NEED back in return for him as he is our best trading asset. Who knows put him in Caneland with that STUD D core and maybe he makes a Cup final. But we don't have that stud D core here and it will takes years to get it here and by that time Freddy is done anywho.

 

[DarkKnight]

I'm not too high on Murray.

Looking like another Cam Ward

Murray is a crap shoot, that’s a risky proposition.

 

[ToneDog]

But he could not figure out a way in 8 games over 4 years to win JUST 1 by himself. There is something missing with Freddy. He does not have da eye of da tiger in him. But he is a solid goalie in NHL. I still put him in 12-15 range of tenders. and we need to get something we NEED back in return for him as he is our best trading asset. Who knows put him in Caneland with that STUD D core and maybe he makes a Cup final. But we don't have that stud D core here and it will takes years to get it here and by that time Freddy is done anywho.

Well said but we do not have enough players with da eye of da tiger and that is what this team sadly needs. They need to increase their hate for losing.

 

[goleafsgo1990]

We plebs are too dull-witted to realize the brilliance of capturing a couple of pawns in Kerfoot and Barrie for a knight and a pawn.

The knight would have been useless because as we all know, once you get suspended twice in a row because you had to do all your neutered teams heavy lifting, you will be stuck in a perpetual playoff suspension loop for the rest of your career.

Dubas is the Elon Musk of hockey. Just like Musk is going to save humanity, Dubas is going to save our Leafs.

7th in playoff points and likely heading to the conference finals you say?

Problem was, he viewed Kadri as a pawn and Barrie as a knight. Taking more away from a huge weakness (playoff grit/depth) and then bringing in a player that adds to a huge weakness (zero defensive game on a bad defense) has to be some of the most brain-dead management I've seen in a few years because Leafs management does this all the time...Insanity.

This is what a terribly flawed and illogical ideology gets you...It's also what happens when you get obsessed about the numbers, like they're going to give you secrets no one else has access to. It's like the QAnon goofs believing in Trump's quest to save America, they have this arrogant pride about this secret they think they know that no one else does. It makes people with nothing to be proud about in their lives feel like they have some importance, some value others don't have access to.

Meanwhile the rest of us living in the real world, using our god-given senses, were losing our minds when we witnessed Dubas, blinded by spreadsheets, neuter our entire team of any semblance of playoff grit. Years of the playoff window and potential down the drain. He turned us into an OHL team essentially. Now with his job on the line he desperately backpedals.

How this whole science experiment was allowed to happen under Shanahan's supervision is beyond me. Pathetic management all around and so far no better than any of the previous rebuilds. Sure shiny players, but they're ruined with bloated contracts and lack of attributes needed to succeed in playoffs.

You will NEVER win a cup being EASY to play against. We have been the EASIEST team in the league to play against only since Dubas took over.

 

[kb]

The knight would have been useless because as we all know, once you get suspended twice in a row because you had to do all your neutered teams heavy lifting, you will be stuck in a perpetual playoff suspension loop for the rest of your career.

Dubas is the Elon Musk of hockey. Just like Musk is going to save humanity, Dubas is going to save our Leafs.

7th in playoff points and likely heading to the conference finals you say?

Problem was, he viewed Kadri as a pawn and Barrie as a knight. Taking more away from a huge weakness (playoff grit/depth) and then bringing in a player that adds to a huge weakness (zero defensive game on a bad defense) has to be some of the most brain-dead management I've seen in a few years because Leafs management does this all the time...Insanity.

This is what a terribly flawed and illogical ideology gets you...It's also what happens when you get obsessed about the numbers, like they're going to give you secrets no one else has access to. It's like the QAnon goofs believing in Trump's quest to save America, they have this arrogant pride about this secret they think they know that no one else does. It makes people with nothing to be proud about in their lives feel like they have some importance, some value others don't have access to.

Meanwhile the rest of us living in the real world, using our god-given senses, were losing our minds when we witnessed Dubas, blinded by spreadsheets, neuter our entire team of any semblance of playoff grit. Years of the playoff window and potential down the drain. He turned us into an OHL team essentially. Now with his job on the line he desperately backpedals.

How this whole science experiment was allowed to happen under Shanahan's supervision is beyond me. Pathetic management all around and so far no better than any of the previous rebuilds. Sure shiny players, but they're ruined with bloated contracts and lack of attributes needed to succeed in playoffs.

You will NEVER win a cup being EASY to play against. We have been the EASIEST team in the league to play against only since Dubas took over.

Yeah, Only since, eh? Last year's deadline acquisition, Muzzin. This years? Clifford/Campbell.

Biggest load of BS posted in a long time. Well done on wasting everyone's time.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Well said but we do not have enough players with da eye of da tiger and that is what this team sadly needs. They need to increase their hate for losing.

No, no you're not doing that now are you?

 

[DarkKnight]

The knight would have been useless because as we all know, once you get suspended twice in a row because you had to do all your neutered teams heavy lifting, you will be stuck in a perpetual playoff suspension loop for the rest of your career.

Dubas is the Elon Musk of hockey. Just like Musk is going to save humanity, Dubas is going to save our Leafs.

7th in playoff points and likely heading to the conference finals you say?

Problem was, he viewed Kadri as a pawn and Barrie as a knight. Taking more away from a huge weakness (playoff grit/depth) and then bringing in a player that adds to a huge weakness (zero defensive game on a bad defense) has to be some of the most brain-dead management I've seen in a few years because Leafs management does this all the time...Insanity.

This is what a terribly flawed and illogical ideology gets you...It's also what happens when you get obsessed about the numbers, like they're going to give you secrets no one else has access to. It's like the QAnon goofs believing in Trump's quest to save America, they have this arrogant pride about this secret they think they know that no one else does. It makes people with nothing to be proud about in their lives feel like they have some importance, some value others don't have access to.

Meanwhile the rest of us living in the real world, using our god-given senses, were losing our minds when we witnessed Dubas, blinded by spreadsheets, neuter our entire team of any semblance of playoff grit. Years of the playoff window and potential down the drain. He turned us into an OHL team essentially. Now with his job on the line he desperately backpedals.

How this whole science experiment was allowed to happen under Shanahan's supervision is beyond me. Pathetic management all around and so far no better than any of the previous rebuilds. Sure shiny players, but they're ruined with bloated contracts and lack of attributes needed to succeed in playoffs.

You will NEVER win a cup being EASY to play against. We have been the EASIEST team in the league to play against only since Dubas took

 

[Clark4Ever]

No, no you're not doing that now are you?

LOL

 

[Clark4Ever]

His lengthy injury history concerns me, and he's been .907, .919, and .899 the past 3 seasons behind a better defensive team. Andersen is .918, .917, and .909 over those same 3 seasons, and the Leafs are looking to move on from him.

I don't see it, connections or not. He's simply not an upgrade as it stands today.

His concussion history is concerning, but it's also worth noting that his concussion issues started in 2015 (he's had 3 in total), and he has still won 2 cups since then as the starting goaltender throughout the playoffs.

He's only 26 years old, so there's a good chance he will able to regain the excellent form he had as recently as last season.

 

[kb]

His concussion history is concerning, but it's also worth noting that his concussion issues started in 2015 (he's had 3 in total), and he has still won 2 cups since then as the starting goaltender throughout the playoffs.

He's only 26 years old, so there's a good chance he will able to regain the excellent form he had as recently as last season.

Well, in all fairness he won the cup the first year while only playing a handful of regular season games. He had a great second season, and has been a below average starter since. He has shown little of the form that won the Cup since those last 2 concussions.

He's a downgrade currently.

 

[seanlinden]

Well, in all fairness he won the cup the first year while only playing a handful of regular season games. He had a great second season, and has been a below average starter since. He has shown little of the form that won the Cup since those last 2 concussions.

He's a downgrade currently.

Yes he is.

The problem with the Leafs & Andersen started when the pandemic hit, begun to formalize when the flat cap for 3 years was announced, and truly solidified when Dubas made the decision that he was going to stick with his big 4 up front, and traded Kasperi Kapanen.

The bottom line is -- Andersen is due for, and quite easily, deserves a raise. Even if you give him 8 years, I don't think it's possible to keep his cap hit at $5m. Even with the pandemic effects on the salary cap, he's likely looking at a $7 x 7 deal.

The Leafs need to pull cap space from somewhere this year, and have absolutely no room for an increase in dollars in any position next year.... so he's the easy casualty when you consider the constraints that Dubas is mentally comitted to Tavares, Marner, Matthews, Nylander; would be foolish to even think about moving Rielly, and Muzzin embodies basically everything the Leafs are missing (although he is certainly overpaid with the effects of the pandemic).

 

[goleafsgo1990]

Yeah, Only since, eh? Last year's deadline acquisition, Muzzin. This years? Clifford/Campbell.

Biggest load of BS posted in a long time. Well done on wasting everyone's time.

Glad I could waste your time with the truth because we all know your types can't handle much of it.

Dubas fanboys in full denial mode.

 

[DarkKnight]

I'm sorry, I generally agree with most of your posts but this is just a horrible horrible take, and is really grasping at straws to salvage what was truly a bad trade.

Kadri has 5 GWG these playoffs, scored at a 30 goal pace this season and is one of the best PP weapons in the league in that bumper slot. Also, one lousy year under Babcock where the entire team looked disengaged for most of the season before playoffs is a poor way to judge whether or not Kadri would've been a good 3C, especially when Babs had him playing a checking type role with Brown and Marleau. I see this lazy take over and over again to try and defend the trade/Kerfoot but the reality is Keefe would've definitely used Kadri to double shift on the wing and play with Tavares/Matthews, unlike rigid ass Babcock; we've already seen him do that with Kerfoot so far. He probably also would've gotten to play with better linemates like Mikheyev/Kapanen/Johnsson etc.

Saying they don't miss him at all is just wrong, he brought a lot of qualities to the table that many players on this team don't have and certainly more than Alex Kerfoot. Even in the qualifiers against Columbus there was a big hole on Tavares' wing as Mikheyev couldn't hold it down and nobody else was able to do anything worthwhile playing there. I'm sure Kadri could've been moved up and provided much more especially since Keefe was leaning hard on those top two lines since the third line did f*** all.

And before you start crying about suspensions, let me know why I should tar and feather Kadri when Zdeno Chara can crosscheck Gallagher in the face in a completely shameless manner, mock Gallagher after and not even get a penalty.

Another goal and an assist, in the deciding playoff game so far for the mediocre third line center

 

[seanlinden]

Yeah, Only since, eh? Last year's deadline acquisition, Muzzin. This years? Clifford/Campbell.

Biggest load of BS posted in a long time. Well done on wasting everyone's time.

Muzzin was a great addition... not such a great contract in hindsight.

Clifford was practically speaking, useless. He's a player that can only really play the game one way, and that's in a big, physical, grinding fashion. The Leafs don't play that way, and injecting a 3rd/4th line forward who does isn't going to change that.

The great thing about Kadri -- he was difficult to play against, brought an infectious passion to the game, but could still play the high-skill game that we need to play. Guys like that are a rarity. Yes, the suspensions were absolutely abysmal. Let's not forget, even with Kadri in the pressbox for games 3-7, the Leafs won games 1, 3, and 5 against Boston. Their superstars stepped up defensively in Kadri's absence; and for the most part, effectively shut down the Marchand/Bergeron/Pastrnak combo. Imagine how that series would have gone if the Leafs could have freed both Tavares & Matthews from Bergeron at home; or kept the matchup but had Kadri go out against the B's lesser guys. Winning the series was not out of the question.

Beyond that, going into the playoffs, Boston was probably the one team that the Leafs matched up quite poorly against. Columbus may have been a tough matchup as well, but they played similar to Boston, who was the better team. The B's swept Carolina, and to be honest, I don't see any reason why the Canes would have given the Leafs much more difficult than they did Boston.

 

[Bomber0104]

Glad I could waste your time with the truth because we all know your types can't handle much of it.

Dubas fanboys in full denial mode.

If only the Leafs were as passionate as the fans, we might actually be somewhere.