Out of the Loop: Why is Everywhere Talking like Andersen is Going?

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I'm sorry, I generally agree with most of your posts but this is just a horrible horrible take, and is really grasping at straws to salvage what was truly a bad trade.

Kadri has 5 GWG these playoffs, scored at a 30 goal pace this season and is one of the best PP weapons in the league in that bumper slot. Also, one lousy year under Babcock where the entire team looked disengaged for most of the season before playoffs is a poor way to judge whether or not Kadri would've been a good 3C, especially when Babs had him playing a checking type role with Brown and Marleau. I see this lazy take over and over again to try and defend the trade/Kerfoot but the reality is Keefe would've definitely used Kadri to double shift on the wing and play with Tavares/Matthews, unlike rigid ass Babcock; we've already seen him do that with Kerfoot so far. He probably also would've gotten to play with better linemates like Mikheyev/Kapanen/Johnsson etc.

Saying they don't miss him at all is just wrong, he brought a lot of qualities to the table that many players on this team don't have and certainly more than Alex Kerfoot. Even in the qualifiers against Columbus there was a big hole on Tavares' wing as Mikheyev couldn't hold it down and nobody else was able to do anything worthwhile playing there. I'm sure Kadri could've been moved up and provided much more especially since Keefe was leaning hard on those top two lines since the third line did f*** all.

And before you start crying about suspensions, let me know why I should tar and feather Kadri when Zdeno Chara can crosscheck Gallagher in the face in a completely shameless manner, mock Gallagher after and not even get a penalty.

There's a difference between what Kadri brought to the Leafs and what he can bring to a different team. If he could be a 30 goal center for the Leafs who can contribute on the PP and be a force in the playoffs, it's an amazing player. But he wasn't anywhere close to that for the Leafs in his final season, and with Tavares and Matthews above him in the lineup it probably would never happen. Andersen is in a similar boat. He might thrive somewhere else (although I think that's a lot less likely), but that doesn't mean he's a solution for the Leafs. You have to separate what a player can contribute in their ideal situation for success and how they fit in with the Leafs specifically

 

[1specter]

I don't miss Kadri

I know you do miss him deep down stickty, it's okay You can accept that the trade ended up poorly. You loved Kadri, no need to pretend like you hate him now because he got suspended defending a teammate and because it makes Dubas look bad that the trade ultimately sucked.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

It's true, the bad goals were bad. And the timing makes them worse. But that's going to happen with every goalie. Andersen also made many 10 bell saves, and closed the door in other games during the series.

If his soft goals are unacceptable, alongside his fantastic overall numbers, then how will the team do with a downgrade? Almost every goalie straight up loses a game for his team on occasion. I don't think his bad goals were really the reason for our losses.

Our offence should win games when the goalie let's in less than 2, on average.

Putting each goal against under the microscope is like blaming a skater for each missed shot. You can't expect perfection. They're athletes, not super heroes.

Faced elimination 7 times in 4 years. I don't think it's as simple as "the goalie can't close". Put the microscope anywhere else, and you'll find bigger holes. Willy put at C? Disaster. Not taking a time out when needed? Disaster. Putting Hyman out for every face off? Disaster. Gardiner giveaways? Disaster. Kadri misses half the games? Disaster. Skaters take a game off? Disaster.

Now we're wondering why our goalie's win-loss stat line doesn't look pretty. Hmmmm. He's a choke artist! Only explanation.

No, it doesn't happen with every goalie. At least not as frequently as it does with Andersen. It's pretty sad that we all knew he was going to give up a softie in Game 5 and he did as usual in a critical situation. We shouldn't be able to predict his failure so well if he's any good.

 

[1specter]

There's a difference between what Kadri brought to the Leafs and what he can bring to a different team. If he could be a 30 goal center for the Leafs who can contribute on the PP and be a force in the playoffs, it's an amazing player. But he wasn't anywhere close to that for the Leafs in his final season, and with Tavares and Matthews above him in the lineup it probably would never happen. Andersen is in a similar boat. He might thrive somewhere else (although I think that's a lot less likely), but that doesn't mean he's a solution for the Leafs. You have to separate what a player can contribute in their ideal situation for success and how they fit in with the Leafs specifically

Again, you latch onto his final season like it was the end all and be all of how he would be going forward. Reality is the team started to tune out Babcock and halfway through the year they literally just stopped trying to play cohesively, they were a .500 team after January 2019, and by the time Babcock was fired I believe they had a losing record for 2019 as a whole under him. We only had one great line which was Hyman-Tavares-Marner, the rest of the lines struggled with consistency and even Matthews disappeared for long stretches at a time.

Babcock was too stubborn to adapt and did a poor job of using players in ways they would find success. Keefe wouldn't utilize Kadri the same way as Babcock, he's proven that he has no problem loading his lines up as well as leaning on his top PP unit more. Maybe he wouldn't score 30, but I think with PP time and double shifting in the top six he'd still hover around 20-25 while bringing the grit and pest like qualities this team is sorely lacking right now.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I think you’re discounting all the times he’s bailed them out. He’s seen more shots than any other goalie since he came to Toronto, and played behind several incredibly mistake prone bluelines

I don't think anybody thinks Andersen was bad in the previous 3 seasons. This season, Andersen was bad.

Many point to the Foudy goal in particular but those should watch the whole sequence again - the announcer comments on Anderson looking surprised.

Maybe instead of looking surprised, he should have saved a ridiculously easy shot in the 3rd period of an elimination game.

That can be tough, especially when he’s also seeing Dubois coming in from the top of the circle in a better shooting position

Dubois was not in a good position that would have forced Andersen to play anything differently.

 

[stickty111]

I know you do miss him deep down stickty, it's okay You can accept that the trade ended up poorly. You loved Kadri, no need to pretend like you hate him now because he got suspended defending a teammate and because it makes Dubas look bad that the trade ultimately sucked.

I love Kadri for sure, but doesn't mean I miss him. I still love Kessel but don't miss him. Now would I take Kadri back? Absolutely but don't want back at all costs. Different words I guess
If Kadri doesn't get suspended again, he is still here.
No question terrible trade, but the idea was right, the execution was bad.
There are only 2 players in Toronto sports I miss. Sundin and Leonard.

 

[stickty111]

Again, you latch onto his final season like it was the end all and be all of how he would be going forward. Reality is the team started to tune out Babcock and halfway through the year they literally just stopped trying to play cohesively, they were a .500 team after January 2019, and by the time Babcock was fired I believe they had a losing record for 2019 as a whole under him. We only had one great line which was Hyman-Tavares-Marner, the rest of the lines struggled with consistency and even Matthews disappeared for long stretches at a time.

Babcock was too stubborn to adapt and did a poor job of using players in ways they would find success. Keefe wouldn't utilize Kadri the same way as Babcock, he's proven that he has no problem loading his lines up as well as leaning on his top PP unit more. Maybe he wouldn't score 30, but I think with PP time and double shifting in the top six he'd still hover around 20-25 while bringing the grit and pest like qualities this team is sorely lacking right now.

Thats a fair point. I think Keefe would have loved Kadri.

 

[Gallagbi]

Dubois was not in a good position that would have forced Andersen to play anything differently.

He's scared and guessing....again

 

[LeafsNation75]

Or why did Dubas resign a proven loser. We either move him for something or risk losing him for nothing and not start taking steps early enough to start addressing his replacement

I should have mentioned in my hypothetical Dubas had not re-signed Andersen. So it would be like when they never traded JVR, Bozak, Gardnier, and Komarov before they all left as UFA's.

 

[paulhiggins]

I would try to extend him for a year or two if he is ok with a negligible raise. If he doesn't agree, trade him.

 

[Clark4Ever]

I would try to extend him for a year or two if he is ok with a negligible raise. If he doesn't agree, trade him.

I think it's in our best interest to move on, regardless of the hypothetical cost. Despite his strong regular season statistics overall, he has shown us repeatedly that he cannot handle high pressure situations in the playoffs.

 

[m1ker]

if Hutchenson wins the cup i'm canceling cable

 

[Do or Die]

if Hutchenson wins the cup i'm canceling cable

So are we...in the Peg.

 

[sparxx87]

He's scared and guessing....again

No, he’s on an island with no help. Again.

Senseless debating goaltending with someone who doesn’t understand why choosing Garret Sparks was stupid.

 

[Stigma]

if Hutchenson wins the cup i'm canceling cable

Haha! Personally, I'd like to see Hutch go deep and the Isles go deep. Why? I want our management to be angry with something to prove. Start the off season with a killer instinct.

 

[justashadowof]

Because Dubas uses his loyal mouthpiece in the media to disseminate the idea into the ether, then we mere mortals find ourselves discussing it and most importantly normalizing the idea. Within a few weeks, sometimes months, there's no shock about the player departing because it has already been planted into our impressionable cranial neural jelly during which time the rationalizing circuits have been working overtime giving us reasons to like the idea. "I'm not that impressionable" you say. Think again, WE can make you say anything, it's proven, it's a given. You will think exactly as WE told you to think. Now get back in line, put on your smiley face muzzle and like it. You will no longer call him "Freddy". It will be an act of genius when the goalie is traded.

 

[Gallagbi]

No, he’s on an island with no help. Again.

Is this the island of back breaking bad goals? Low percentage, bad angle goals in elimination games?

 

[DarkKnight]

I can see the logic entertaining moving Andersen. Also, Dubas better get the return right and have the proper replacement because if Andersen leaves and we have a goaltending issue, this market will eat him alive and frankly that could be the end of him. Again, moving Andersen I’m listening, but let’s not forget how many years we had a number 1 that couldn’t do the job, it will be a wildfire of controversy. It’s his biggest move imho, get it wrong and he’s probably done.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I can see the logic entertaining moving Andersen. Also, Dubas better get the return right and have the proper replacement because if Andersen leaves and we have a goaltending issue, this market will eat him alive and frankly that could be the end of him. Again, moving Andersen I’m listening, but let’s not forget how many years we had a number 1 that couldn’t do the job, it will be a wildfire of controversy. It’s his biggest move imho, get it wrong and he’s probably done.

I would argue we had a goaltending issue last year - he was sub-par. He was solid in the playoffs but again, it's the softies he lets in .......

 

[DarkKnight]

I would argue we had a goaltending issue last year - he was sub-par. He was solid in the playoffs but again, it's the softies he lets in .......

That’s fine, he wasn’t great but it doesn’t matter if his replacement can’t do the job. It’s pretty much cemented he’s our best tender since Belfour, if we have a new guy come and struggle, Dubas is done imho. It’s THE key move now. He has to get this trade right or don’t do it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Apparently the Leafs are interested in Murray so Andersen out and Murray in could be the plan.

 

[kb]

Apparently the Leafs are interested in Murray so Andersen out and Murray in could be the plan.

I don't see Murray being an upgrade, nor do I see him being less expensive than Andersen. And I really can't see the Leafs trading for an unknown cap hit when they are trying to shed cap. If they trade for him and he get's north of $5 million, the Leafs will have little choice but to walk away.

It's only Dreger throwing poop at the wall again.

 

[ACC1224]

That’s fine, he wasn’t great but it doesn’t matter if his replacement can’t do the job. It’s pretty much cemented he’s our best tender since Belfour, if we have a new guy come and struggle, Dubas is done imho. It’s THE key move now. He has to get this trade right or don’t do it.

The faith level that he gets this right may be at an all time low right now.

 

[ACC1224]

I don't see Murray being an upgrade, nor do I see him being less expensive than Andersen. And I really can't see the Leafs trading for an unknown cap hit when they are trying to shed cap. If they trade for him and he get's north of $5 million, the Leafs will have little choice but to walk away.

It's only Dreger throwing poop at the wall again.

Couldn't an extension be worked out before obtaining him?

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don't see Murray being an upgrade, nor do I see him being less expensive than Andersen. And I really can't see the Leafs trading for an unknown cap hit when they are trying to shed cap. If they trade for him and he get's north of $5 million, the Leafs will have little choice but to walk away.

It's only Dreger throwing poop at the wall again.

Maybe they work out a contract before making the trade?

He might not be an upgrade, offhand I'd say that a gamble is a more accurate description. But Andersen only has one year left and if they've decided to move on from him, this sort of gamble might make some sense. If they move Andersen and shed cap at the same time, my guess is that anything they do would be a gamble anyway so in that context it makes some sense.