Proposal: Ottawa Senators Fire Sale

[danielpalfredsson]

A team that already has over $13m tied up in RD. Can't afford to give $11m+ to another single defender. Smarter to spend that money elsewhere and use the 3rd on a cost-controlled asset that can contribute offensively right away on an ELC.

That's not how you build a successful team.

Where's that GIF from Money Ball where they are making that trade call?

If someone calls up and offers a 28 year old Erik Karlsson for a 3rd overall pick, the best thing to do is to accept before the drugs wear off and they change their mind. Then, sort out the RD situation accordingly from there.

Not only that, MTL isn't in cap trouble as a whole. ELC talent is very valuable as a whole, but there are unique situations like the one we are discussing here, a GM being dumb enough to trade Erik Karlsson for only the 3rd overall pick that would trump the value of having 3 years of Zadina or Tkachuk at 3Mish.

Am I taking crazy pills? Do people think I am talking about that Erik Karlsson who played for the Hurricanes for a while? Go back and look at that list of 3rd overall picks from the last 15 years. Google Erik Karlsson (Sens not Hurricanes). It's a no brainer.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Your list should have Dylan Strome instead of Puljujarvi, but your point is still good.

Yes, you're right. Bit of a brain fart there.

The only player on your list should be Toews in my opinion.

I agree completely. From that list, the ability to have prime Toews from 18 years old is the only player who'd give me pause about taking over a 28 year old Karlsson. While I would not take Draisaitl or Duchene, I don't think it's unfair to say they'd be in the conversation for some people.

Anybody else on that list though, unless someone thinks one of the guys who it's still too early to tell with like Heiskanen is going to be a perpetual Norris candidate starting at a very early age, none of the other players make any sense. A player like Huberdeau who is one of the better forwards on that list outside of the three named above, well he just had a career year production (69 points) wise that would be considered a disappointment for Karlsson, and Karlsson is a defenseman....

 

[le_sean]

That's not how you build a successful team.

Where's that GIF from Money Ball where they are making that trade call?

If someone calls up and offers a 28 year old Erik Karlsson for a 3rd overall pick, the best thing to do is to accept before the drugs wear off and they change their mind. Then, sort out the RD situation accordingly from there.

Not only that, MTL isn't in cap trouble as a whole. ELC talent is very valuable as a whole, but there are unique situations like the one we are discussing here, a GM being dumb enough to trade Erik Karlsson for only the 3rd overall pick that would trump the value of having 3 years of Zadina or Tkachuk at 3Mish.

Am I taking crazy pills? Do people think I am talking about that Erik Karlsson who played for the Hurricanes for a while? Go back and look at that list of 3rd overall picks from the last 15 years. Google Erik Karlsson (Sens not Hurricanes). It's a no brainer.

I know who Erik Karlsson is, no need to be a smartass. You also don’t build a successful team by having 3 RD making over 25% of the cap.

I understand the value favours the Habs, but RD is the least of our concerns. If you’re going to reply and say “well you can just trade Weber or Petry,” don’t bother and go turn on NHL 18 if you think that’s the way the world works.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I know who Erik Karlsson is, no need to be a smartass. You also don’t build a successful team by having 3 RD making over 25% of the cap.

I understand the value favours the Habs, but RD is the least of our concerns. If you’re going to reply and say “well you can just trade Weber or Petry,” don’t bother and go turn on NHL 18 if you think that’s the way the world works.

You're clearly missing my point. If a team is offered a franchise player in a trade at a bargain acquisition price, getting that player for that bargain price trumps whatever short term imbalance it causes to a team's structure. That imbalance can be fixed later on.

I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't be a market for Weber in a trade. Even if that is true, an eventual Petry buyout would cost the Canadiens roughly 1.8M in dead cap which is a very manageable buyout cap hit. There is also a strong chance of a lockout, which if it is anything like the last lockout might come with one or more compliance buyouts.

I just can't buy that a team should turn down a franchise player at a bargain acquisition price because they've spent too much on a player of the same position. Karlsson is one of the most effective players on the league who plays half the game. If Petry and Weber are both bad enough that they are untradeable as you seem to be portraying it, then you're looking at a situation where regardless of what the Canadiens have already spent, RD would be a position of need in the first place.

I'm just astounded that someone would rather have their choice of Zadina or Tkachuk or one of the top D prospects in the 3-6 type ballpark rank this draft over Karlsson 1 for 1.

 

[le_sean]

You're clearly missing my point. If a team is offered a franchise player in a trade at a bargain acquisition price, getting that player for that bargain price trumps whatever short term imbalance it causes to a team's structure. That imbalance can be fixed later on.

I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't be a market for Weber in a trade. Even if that is true, an eventual Petry buyout would cost the Canadiens roughly 1.8M in dead cap which is a very manageable buyout cap hit. There is also a strong chance of a lockout, which if it is anything like the last lockout might come with one or more compliance buyouts.

I just can't buy that a team should turn down a franchise player at a bargain acquisition price because they've spent too much on a player of the same position. Karlsson is one of the most effective players on the league who plays half the game. If Petry and Weber are both bad enough that they are untradeable as you seem to be portraying it, then you're looking at a situation where regardless of what the Canadiens have already spent, RD would be a position of need in the first place.

I'm just astounded that someone would rather have their choice of Zadina or Tkachuk or one of the top D prospects in the 3-6 type ballpark rank this draft over Karlsson 1 for 1.

Our team, like yours, sucks. Erik didn’t make a difference for your team this season, he won’t make a difference for our team sucking next season. We are better off rebuilding.

 

[BernieParent]

So ... out of curiosity, what do you think the ask on Anderson would be?

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Dzingel is exactly the type of player Edmonton should be targeting but there's too much risk involved at this juncture of time, since he's a UFA after next season. Realistically, the Oilers should be all over Hoffman. He's signed for the next two years at a modest cap hit and has the speed necessary to play with McDavid. The 10th overall for Hoffman straight-up gets it done imo.

I like Dzingel’s game. Pageau’s too.

I think RNH and McDavid are locked in to start next year, they looked great together. If we did go after Hoffman it would be to pair with Leon. Trouble is I don’t know if we can add his salary without sending any back, or if I love the idea of giving up 10th for a guy two years from UFA who only had 22 goals last year.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Our team, like yours, sucks. Erik didn’t make a difference for your team this season, he won’t make a difference for our team sucking next season. We are better off rebuilding.

Were you in a self imposed hockey exile during the 2016-17 Stanley Cup playoffs when Erik Karlsson willed the Senators within a goal of the Cup final? Was he really surrounded by a cast of players that could justify that run? I don't think so.

Relative to what is expected of him, Karlsson stunk for most of this year. He was recovering from a major injury and it clearly hindered his game. A lot went wrong with our team. That doesn't trump his previous resume. He closed out the year very strong, looking like his old self.

Even if you are rebuilding, what's better for a rebuild, Erik Karlsson for the next 8 years, or one of Zadina/Tkachuk @ 18 years old?

I just think it's such an absurd point that a team would be better off not accepting a trade for a franchise player in exchange for a pick that historically will produce a fringe 1st liner with a small chance of the player becoming a superstar or franchise type player.

 

[WhoTagz]

Mike hoffman looks really intresting if he got traded to the rangers

 

[JungleBeat]

So ... out of curiosity, what do you think the ask on Anderson would be?

Neuvirth + Prospect/2nd.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'm sure the Sharks would show interest in Hoffman and Ceci but not sure what they'd be looking for with them as a package or individually.

 

[BernieParent]

Neuvirth + Prospect/2nd.

Thanks for your answer. I will arrange a meeting with Mr. Hextall and one of us will get back to you.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Toronto
1st+Martin

For

Ceci+pick

 

[stempniaksen]

I'm sure the Sharks would show interest in Hoffman and Ceci but not sure what they'd be looking for with them as a package or individually.

Younger, cost controlled players. Preferably ELCs. A guy like Meier sticks out, but that may be overkill. Labanc seems like a fit in a Hoffman deal as well.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

Burrows for Virtanen.

 

[The Hockey Tonk Man]

Smith on the B's could be neat? Always liked the way he played

 

[le_sean]

Were you in a self imposed hockey exile during the 2016-17 Stanley Cup playoffs when Erik Karlsson willed the Senators within a goal of the Cup final? Was he really surrounded by a cast of players that could justify that run? I don't think so.

Relative to what is expected of him, Karlsson stunk for most of this year. He was recovering from a major injury and it clearly hindered his game. A lot went wrong with our team. That doesn't trump his previous resume. He closed out the year very strong, looking like his old self.

Even if you are rebuilding, what's better for a rebuild, Erik Karlsson for the next 8 years, or one of Zadina/Tkachuk @ 18 years old?

I just think it's such an absurd point that a team would be better off not accepting a trade for a franchise player in exchange for a pick that historically will produce a fringe 1st liner with a small chance of the player becoming a superstar or franchise type player.

Okay then trade us your 4th overall for Weber. Chances are whoever your picking won't be as good, so you might as well trade it.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Okay then trade us your 4th overall for Weber. Chances are whoever your picking won't be as good, so you might as well trade it.

Erik Karlsson turned 27 in May.

Shea Weber turns 33 in August.

Not to mention, Karlsson being significantly better than Weber.

 

[edguy]

Burrows for Virtanen.

Sold.

 

[keppel146]

Wild would take Hoffman or Stone for Coyle+3rd

 

[BernieParent]

Neuvirth + Prospect/2nd.

Yeah, I was intrigued but Ron Hextall said way too much for Anderson after that disastrous season. Neuvirth and a 4th.

 

[Hockey Rush]

I would like Bobby Ryan but my only concern is the "expansion draft" ramifications of taking him. You have to protect him or buy him out. Neither which is an ideal situation for an up and coming team.

If the right package was offered though I'm sure Jim would consider it in Vancouver. The value would need to be worthwhile though.

 

[stempniaksen]

Wild would take Hoffman or Stone for Coyle+3rd

There's a big difference in value between Hoffman and Stone, and honestly this deal probably doesn't get either one.

I think if Hoffman ends up being dealt it will be for young, cost controlled pieces (guys on ELC's, ect). For the Wild I think that ends up being Kunin/Erikkson Ek/Greenway+

 

[Duncstar]

There's a big difference in value between Hoffman and Stone, and honestly this deal probably doesn't get either one.

I think if Hoffman ends up being dealt it will be for young, cost controlled pieces (guys on ELC's, ect). For the Wild I think that ends up being Kunin/Erikkson Ek/Greenway+

We like Brodie...

 

[Shruggs Peterson]

Wild would take Hoffman or Stone for Coyle+3rd

Yes I'm sure they would like one of Ottawa's best forwards in exchange for giving up very little.