Confirmed with Link: Ottawa "fans" believe the hype and go over the edge.

[BondraTime]

Was that specific to Karlsson or to shipping out players in general?

If it is specific to Karlsson, then I take back everything and yeah Melnyk needs to GTFO ASAP.

But, if it's in general to "rebuilding/re-tooling" then I don't have a problem with that statement.

It was Dreger and McKenzie, not Bruce as far as I remember

 

[Smash88]

Well yeah I have a problem with that statement then.

But then why did Dorion say if he's still here on July 1 they will make him a contract offer?

I have no doubt they are strongly considering trading him. They may know something we don't, or maybe they just don't see a way to fit a max salary for him and still be competitive. Maybe this all just to gauge interest for future trades the Sens may be considering to get other players.

Like I said, there are so many unknowns, unless we are in those rooms hearing what they say, it's just people's opinions that we are going off.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

It was Dreger and McKenzie, not Bruce as far as I remember

I think it was Bruce @danielpalfredsson .. do you remember? This was discussed a little in the Karlsson trade thread if I recall. You could be right about Dreger .. I don't trust my memory for any longer than about 24 seconds

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Well yeah I have a problem with that statement then.

But then why did Dorion say if he's still here on July 1 they will make him a contract offer?

I have no doubt they are strongly considering trading him. They may know something we don't, or maybe they just don't see a way to fit a max salary for him and still be competitive. Maybe this all just to gauge interest for future trades the Sens may be considering to get other players.

Like I said, there are so many unknowns, unless we are in those rooms hearing what they say, it's just people's opinions that we are going off.

Not sure what statement.
If he is here on July 1st , I am sure they will make him an offer and try to sign him at a price they can stomach imo.. Karlsson wants to stay, I think, but he would have to be on board with the plan and see a way to being able to compete for the cup in a short enough for him, time frame.

 

[BondraTime]

I think it was Bruce @danielpalfredsson .. do you remember? This was discussed a little in the Karlsson trade thread if I recall. You could be right about Dreger .. I don't trust my memory for any longer than about 24 seconds

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...lf-dozen-teams.2452841/page-31#post-141950619

Discussion starts here and goes on for a few pages, it was Thursdays game

 

[Smash88]

Not sure what statement.
If he is here on July 1st , I am sure they will make him an offer and try to sign him at a price they can stomach imo.. Karlsson wants to stay, I think, but he would have to be on board with the plan and see a way to being able to compete for the cup in a short enough for him, time frame.

The statement that Melnyk directed Dorion to trade Karlsson and could wait until summer if need be.

But yeah that's the way I see it too, I'm not the best at writing out my thoughts exactly, as I am French first, so maybe I come off a little confusing.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I think it was Bruce @danielpalfredsson .. do you remember? This was discussed a little in the Karlsson trade thread if I recall. You could be right about Dreger .. I don't trust my memory for any longer than about 24 seconds

I think it was reported in some shape or form by multiple people. So much has been said this past week, I'd have to really go back and listen/read everything that has been said.

I think originally it may have been reported by Dreger, but I recall more than one person reporting it. I could be wrong.

I don't know if Garrioch ever point blank said it as if "Melnyk gave permission", but Garrioch was very much on about how the TDL talks now would lay the framework for a summer deal. He only really back tracked off that a bit after the deadline when Karl and Dorion came out and started to say the right things.

 

[BondraTime]

This is from @danielpalfredsson RE: Garrioch on Karlsson

GARRIOCH ON KARLSSON DURING TAMPA INTERMISSION

(Warning: Paraphrased, certain words might be off. Hopefully I've maintained the general intent of what he wanted to say.)

I don't know if I can provide all the answers, but I look at this situation, and I think the Ottawa Senators when word leaked out that they were listening on Erik Karlsson, I think teams then started calling them, and then I believe it took a fever pitch.

I think the Senators have to listen and I don't blame Dorion for listening, even if it is their captain. The Senators do not know what Karlssons intentions are, they haven't sat down for a contract, they don't know if he will sign long term or will go to unrestricted free agency. There'es more questions than answers.

Right now they are in a position of strength due to Karlsson's contract being for two playoffs, so they have to look at everything with this deadline coming up, and the position th eteam is in.

My belief there is a boatload of interest. I've been told there are a lot more than 6 teams interested in him. What the Ottawa Senators need to do is separate the pretenders from the contenders. They need to figure out who actually wants to do this because they cannot afford to waste time with teams who aren't serious.

I think within the next 24-48 hours they figure out who is serious and then go into the weekend and have discussions with those teams about Erik Karlsson.

I think at this point it is going to be a very difficult deal for the Senators to get done, and I think they are willing to take it in the summer if they have to. This might be a difficult deal to do by 3PM Sunday. Contenders are not gonna want to take major pieces off their active roster at this point. The NHL executives I've talked to think maybe if they take this into the summer they can get the assets they want if they need to rebuild.

 

[Smash88]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...lf-dozen-teams.2452841/page-31#post-141950619

Discussion starts here and goes on for a few pages, it was Thursdays game

That was before the deadline right?

I wonder if they just say that in order to get teams to up their offer before the deadline?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The statement that Melnyk directed Dorion to trade Karlsson and could wait until summer if need be.

But yeah that's the way I see it too, I'm not the best at writing out my thoughts exactly, as I am French first, so maybe I come off a little confusing.

As far as I recall,...
There was nothing point blank about Melnyk directing Dorion to trade him.
The statement which took people off guard a little was that Dorion had permission to wait until the Summer... that took me off guard anyway... the other part could be implied by some...
That is what I recall... so don't take it to the bank

 

[BondraTime]

That was before the deadline right?

I wonder if they just say that in order to get teams to up their offer before the deadline?

That was Thursday.

I'm sure some of it is trying to play the market, just as some of the things Karlsson/Dorion are saying now is playing the market.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...lf-dozen-teams.2452841/page-31#post-141950619

Discussion starts here and goes on for a few pages, it was Thursdays game

You were right on it being Dreger looking back at the posts in that other thread.

 

[topshelf15]

Humm fans believe hype.....Well when you have a track record of shipping out players you dont want to pay,along with selling assets for monetary considerations iedraft picks)...Along with constant talk of ...Team friendly deals,budgets..Along with the team having to pay the most ever for a player in EK ,yeah it was all hype......TY EM for making Ottawa the laughing stock of the NHL,no wait you are the laughing stock of an owner in the nhl

 

[coladin]

It really is bordering on insanity how some posters on this board truly don't believe EK was close to getting shipped out.

My feelings are that there were situations discussed, but nothing remotely close to what Dorion would need to make the trade. Not even close. I choose to believe that he wasn't actively shopping him and listening to offers, I can see Dorion saying, "don't even think about it unless we get....."

I don't think the hype was "fabricated" as McKenzie stated, but clearly exaggerated and exploited for their own personal reasons. The fact that he pushed back HARD on the pregame reminds me of Shakespeare's famous "thou doth protest too much methinks"

 

[NorthCoast]

Not pro anyone, just a little commonsense.

You and others can believe all you want the a NHL GM and the Owner are blathering lunatics all you want, I choose not to.

29th place. Trading generational talent/captain in his prime. Fanbase in revolt. Entire league, including former players, thinks Ottawa is a gongshow. All creating a toxic environment of negativity while trying to negotiate a new stadium deal.

Yeah, these guys are geniuses.

Reminds me of that time a guy owned 1.5 billion in a companies stock that he founded, waited until the stock was worth a few hundred million, sold, and then watched the stock value climb back to 1.5 billion.

Oh wait, I even found a quote for why the guy had to leave the company to begin with:

"repeatedly overstated earnings and hid losses in order to deceive investors and create the appearance of achieving earnings goals. When it ultimately became impossible to continue concealing the company's inability to meet its own earnings guidance, Biovail actively misled investors and analysts about the reasons for the company's poor performance"

Okay sure, maybe he would lie to securities commissions that could actually lead to jail time, but the fans, no, never......this is a guy we can trust.

 

[coladin]

I could easily pick apart what McKenzie had to say and many others can, and you will see there is zero substance to what he said and all speculation. It is part of what I do for a living and the guy is incredibly careful with how he says stuff and words his responses. He is really good at that. He is a professional speculator and for him to be so butt hurt about the backlash has him looking a trifle guilty, and ultimately less credible than I thought. He can premise everything on "the right offer", which looks like there could have never been "the right offer". Right? Dorion wasn't trading a franchise player for prospects. That is lunacy. And funny how the Bobby Ryan angle completely disappeared. Why didn't Dorion get asked about that ?

All those media types are professional speculators and we all know GMs use them to float things, that is the nature of the business. But to throw out 50-50 was ludicrous, unbelievable to the whole fanbase because...it actually was. Unbelievable . And full of poop.

All this to say I don't believe that he will sign an extension with the way the financial situation is looking. I think management need to sign him, but I seriously question if they can afford him.

If I were Dorion, I would throw out a 2 or 3year extension at max dollars and buy some time. Make him the highest paid player in the NHL and rebuild your fan support with Karlsson. Why would Karlsso take that? maybe for the same reasons as Melnyk. Show me that you are serious, and if you are not thenI will hit UFA at still a very young age. And get $14M all the while.

 

[Smash88]

I could easily pick apart what McKenzie had to say and many others can, and you will see there is zero substance to what he said and all speculation. It is part of what I do for a living and the guy is incredibly careful with how he says stuff and words his responses. He is really good at that. He is a professional speculator and for him to be so butt hurt about the backlash has him looking a trifle guilty, and ultimately less credible than I thought. He can premise everything on "the right offer", which looks like there could have never been "the right offer". Right? Dorion wasn't trading a franchise player for prospects. That is lunacy. And funny how the Bobby Ryan angle completely disappeared. Why didn't Dorion get asked about that ?

All those media types are professional speculators and we all know GMs use them to float things, that is the nature of the business. But to throw out 50-50 was ludicrous, unbelievable to the whole fanbase because...it actually was. Unbelievable . And full of poop.

All this to say I don't believe that he will sign an extension with the way the financial situation is looking. I think management need to sign him, but I seriously question if they can afford him.

If I were Dorion, I would throw out a 2 or 3year extension at max dollars and buy some time. Make him the highest paid player in the NHL and rebuild your fan support with Karlsson. Why would Karlsso take that? maybe for the same reasons as Melnyk. Show me that you are serious, and if you are not thenI will hit UFA at still a very young age. And get $14M all the while.

I agree with basically all of this except those last 2 lines.

Karlsson will get a max deal. He may if he chooses, to help the Sens a bit, but it won't be in term, it will be in how the salary is structured.

This is Karlsson's only shot at that massive 8 year deal, that won't be there for him when he is 30+

 

[BonkTastic]

McKenzie... is a professional speculator and for him to be so butt hurt about the backlash has him looking a trifle guilty, and ultimately less credible than I thought.

Can you explain your reasoning re: the bolded statement?

 

[BondraTime]

Can you explain your reasoning re: the bolded statement?

There are two sides to this.

Those who think it was made up by media and others.

Those who believe what insiders have been saying.

He's the former.

I just can't throw aside decades of integrity and insight because it involves a negative outcome for us. That's just complete ignorance.

 

[BonkTastic]

There are two sides to this.

Those who think it was made up by media and others.

Those who believe what insiders have been saying.

He's the former.

I think... I think I was hoping to get a "this is the line of thought and logic I used to get from Point A to Point B" kind of response.

Like, specifically, logically, how does:
McKenzie being angry about people questioning his reporting = some kind of sign of guilt?

Seems like specious reasoning to me.

 

[BondraTime]

I think... I think I was hoping to get a "this is the line of thought and logic I used to get from Point A to Point B" kind of response.

Like, specifically, logically, how does:
McKenzie being angry about people questioning his reporting = some kind of sign of guilt?

Seems like specious reasoning to me.

Asking for a bit much there

 

[Larionov]

I think Bobby Mac is a credible guy, but in this case I think he got caught up in the Karlsson hype, and also didn't want to appear out of the loop relative to his counterparts. Therefore, he hopped on the train with gusto.

My experience is that media types are REALLY sensitive to criticism. They all have pretty healthy egos, and get really huffy and butthurt if anyone appears to be questioning their journalistic integrity. Bobby Mac's reaction is fairly typical of his profession...

 

[BonkTastic]

Asking for a bit much there

What can I say, I'm a dreamer!

 

[Sensung]

Assuming we can all agree that Melnyk would probably rather the team do better than worse, it stands to reason that there is always going to be a threshold that needs to be met for the team to be willing to trade Karlsson. I mean, if Melnyk wanted Karlsson gone regardless of the return, we'd could have waived him too, but it's not so much that he might want him gone above all else, but rather that he values a potential return and the budget space a move creates more than the player. Maximizing the return will always be the priority, and presumably, the deadline to do so would be the end of his contract, and not this past trade deadline, so it's logical to believe that if Dorion convinced Melnyk that a better return could be attained in the summer (which many pundits suggested would be the best time to trade him), Melnyk would be open to waiting provided that difference in the potential return was more valuable than the ~2 mil Karlsson is owed for the remainder of the season.

Not sure in the short term that is a priority. I think he is fine running the team at the cap floor until the new arena is built and using the poor attendance as an excuse to do so.

He won't be upset if the team exceeds expectations, but I can envision as scenario where W/L is far less important than keeping the cost of running the franchise at a bare minimum.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

My feelings are that there were situations discussed, but nothing remotely close to what Dorion would need to make the trade. Not even close. I choose to believe that he wasn't actively shopping him and listening to offers, I can see Dorion saying, "don't even think about it unless we get....."

I don't think the hype was "fabricated" as McKenzie stated, but clearly exaggerated and exploited for their own personal reasons. The fact that he pushed back HARD on the pregame reminds me of Shakespeare's famous "thou doth protest too much methinks"

I also think there was more than one pundit that put the "Odds" for a Karlsson trade at 50/50, which I did not think was the case, but it sure helped fill programing for the sports networks and sport radio stations.




Also there is no play, by Shakespeare, that has the line "thou doth protest too much methinks" in it.... the line, that is commonly misquoted is actually "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."