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Ottawa 67's 2019-20 Season Thread (Part 3)

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Buschito

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Apr 8, 2019
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OMG67 said:
I understand where you are coming from but Hoef isn't an "outlet pass" sorta D-Man. He is significant once the o-zone has been gained. Once the zone has been gained, he has a strong ability of moving along the blueline and is good along the boards keeping pucks in and THEN distributing inside the zone.

He isn't great at moving the puck up ice. He's OK at that at the OHL level but there are dozens of D-Men in the OHL better at distributing the puck from the defensive zone.

This isn't a knock on Hoef overall. It is to say he is maybe the best D-Man in the O-Zone with the puck in the entire CHL. Outside of that, he struggles.
Click to expand...


Sorry OMG but the analytics show Hoefenmayer is quite successful at zone exits and passing. In fact, he doesn’t do it enough, given his success rate.
 

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OMG67

OMG67

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Buschito said:
Sorry OMG but the analytics show Hoefenmayer is quite successful at zone exits and passing. In fact, he doesn’t do it enough, given his success rate.
Click to expand...

He only has 8 games tracked. Those numbers can be based on weak opposition. I am not sure you can lend significant credence to such a small sample size for analytics.

I am not suggesting they are hogwash but it would be better to know what the opposition teams were.

Even the other players don’t have the same number of tracked games which would suggest they don’t track the same games for comparative purposes.

EDIT: Only 25 teams are tracked out of the 60 CHL teams. So, less than half of the leagues players are tracked at all. Again, I am not sure this tool is effective to render a conclusion that would compare in any way to the type of analystics we would get out of the NHL.
 
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Buschito

Registered User
Apr 8, 2019
17
10
Doesn’t say what games were analyzed specifically. Here’s similar tracking from last year. 10 games for both Hoef and Bahl. This stats guy (Mitch Brown) tracks teams over the year and does updates in batches. Yes, definitely small sample size but this is the only guy I am aware of tracking Junior analytics and publicly sharing.

The guy does analytics for The Athletic so he’s at least reputable.

I just prefer to use data rather than our recollections of game performances. Hoef is doing very well, not just point-wise. If you want more data on players, I’d be glad to share what I glean from the analytics guys I follow.
 

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beastintheeast

beastintheeast

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Mar 27, 2013
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If there is a positive to this weekend it is that the players now can stop believing the newspapers and the crap. They can now believe that being number 1 in Canada does not mean you are great.
This is a GOOD team.
Not a GREAT team.
BUT they need to play together as a TEAM.

Wins came easy to these guys and they started to drink the Kool Aid that said they were great.

Time to go back to the gator aid and remember they are good not GREAT.
 
OMG67

OMG67

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Sep 1, 2013
10,783
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Buschito said:
Doesn’t say what games were analyzed specifically. Here’s similar tracking from last year. 10 games for both Hoef and Bahl. This stats guy (Mitch Brown) tracks teams over the year and does updates in batches. Yes, definitely small sample size but this is the only guy I am aware of tracking Junior analytics and publicly sharing.

The guy does analytics for The Athletic so he’s at least reputable.

I just prefer to use data rather than our recollections of game performances. Hoef is doing very well, not just point-wise. If you want more data on players, I’d be glad to share what I glean from the analytics guys I follow.
Click to expand...

Where I see Hoef weak are:
1> Skating - tracking ability and flat out speed. He is choppy and has difficulty getting from point A to Point B. HE can skate laterally, especially in the offensive zone when he isn’t in pursuit of the puck or puck carrier.
2> Defensive zone in almost every way. His lack of skating ability makes it difficult for him to pursue a carrier. If he gets himself out of position, it is really difficult for him to get back in play. HE does manage to maintain decent separation but he has issues engaging the better players. HE can make a pass since he is good with the puck but more so when he has room and space. HE isn’t the best at it in tight spots but he makes up for that because he isn’t a stupid player that forces a play that isn’t there so it limits his turnovers.

So, when you look at the analytics, you will notice his attempts at exit are low because he isn’t good at retrieving the puck because of his poor skating. Once he does get it, he can make a pass if it is there in front of him but if it isn’t he doesn’t make too many mistakes. That can skew the analytics because he isn’t trying to exit the zone, jsut trying to not get burned. This is why he would be in the 40’s percentile in exits but 80’s percentile in success relative to other players. HE only exits successfully when there is a play and space. At least he doesn’t try to exit when there isn’t a play. HE eats it or he doesn’t have the puck because his D-Partner is better at retrieving pucks.

Where Hoef is good:
1> Offensive zone puck movement. HE glides across the line effectively. He anticipates well with solid O-Zone instincts so he is in the right place at the right time to intercept clearing plays. Again, with the puck he has decent short stride footwork so he can move well laterally. HE is not the type of player to penetrate it the slot with the puck but he is great at seeing the play offensively and making the pass. That reflects in his numbers.
2> He has a great shot. That is reflected in his stellar shooting numbers. HE manages to get puck through because he is adept at the one timer so lanes are still open when he releases the puck. HE also doesn’t stand there and bang away with a clapper into skin pads like Okhotyuk. If there is no lane, he looks to pass which maintains possession. Because of the quality of the forwards he plays with, he usually gets that puck back again.

Some of these observations are right there in the analytics. However, with a lack of sample sizing and the sheer gap in quality of opposition at the CHL level, the two can combine to significantly improve stats or even degrade stats. If his eight games are against top 8 OHL teams, vs bottom 6 OHL teams, you will see a vast difference in success. Also, he will be fine against a weighty team but not as fine against a speedy team. He is exposed by speed but not by size of opposition.

Keep in mind that I am not being harsh on Hoef as an OHL D-Man, He is what he is. There are significant gaps in his game that remain hidden because of the quality of team he plays with combined with the vast difference between top opposition and bottom opposition. HE is wayyyy better than a 16 year old rookie but not necessarily close to being as overall effective as his 19 and 20 year old counterparts playing as #1 or #2 D-Men on other top 6 OHL teams.

If pressed to do so, I would probably pick 10 to 15 other D-Men I’d rather have from other rosters before I’d pick Hoef. Based on there being 20 other teams, that still puts him in lofty territory but from the perspective of dominance, he is mostly one dimensional. I feel that perspective isn’t misplaced. IT is also the reason why a potential 100 point OA D-Man remains unsigned. What he does do very well at the OHL level does not translate in the NHL or even AHL. He is an important piece of the Ottawa roster but his talents lie almost exclusively in the offensive zone.
 
OMG67

OMG67

Registered User
Sep 1, 2013
10,783
6,939
beastintheeast said:
If there is a positive to this weekend it is that the players now can stop believing the newspapers and the crap. They can now believe that being number 1 in Canada does not mean you are great.
This is a GOOD team.
Not a GREAT team.
BUT they need to play together as a TEAM.

Wins came easy to these guys and they started to drink the Kool Aid that said they were great.

Time to go back to the gator aid and remember they are good not GREAT.
Click to expand...

I know you remember this....

HARD WORK BEATS TALENT WHEN TALENT DOESN’T WORK

That was on the dressing room wall above the stalls. That is something I live by. When we won the OHL Championship in 2001, that was the team. Konopka, Talbot, Galbraith to name a few. Those guys epitomized hard work and tenacity. Big motors and even bigger hearts. This team needs to find a little of that. That was the team that started the war paint. Very few teams deserved to even mark their faces like that since then. It is almost an insult to that 2001 team that other 67’s teams with no heart put that on their faces.
 
beastintheeast

beastintheeast

Registered User
Mar 27, 2013
3,019
568
LOL yes The other thing I remember is seeing you did not skate tonight WE WILL SKATE TONIGHT

Remember I think it was a northern trip that did not go well the players got to get off the bus get changed and had a practice.

Teams in many leagues have copied other teams. The point that they miss though is the heart or the reason that those teams did it. The teams from that time period knew they were not the flashiest but they were the meanest and each player knew their role.

Lance was the perfect player and if he had not had his issues probably would have been in the AHL. He knew his role and knew enough to listen to Killer on the bench.
Last Year and this year's teams are not those teams. They lack the drive and the meanness.
They are not hungry.
 

44 95 plus tax

Registered User
Oct 6, 2009
446
166
OMG67 said:
Where I see Hoef weak are:
1> Skating - tracking ability and flat out speed. He is choppy and has difficulty getting from point A to Point B. HE can skate laterally, especially in the offensive zone when he isn’t in pursuit of the puck or puck carrier.
2> Defensive zone in almost every way. His lack of skating ability makes it difficult for him to pursue a carrier. If he gets himself out of position, it is really difficult for him to get back in play. HE does manage to maintain decent separation but he has issues engaging the better players. HE can make a pass since he is good with the puck but more so when he has room and space. HE isn’t the best at it in tight spots but he makes up for that because he isn’t a stupid player that forces a play that isn’t there so it limits his turnovers.

So, when you look at the analytics, you will notice his attempts at exit are low because he isn’t good at retrieving the puck because of his poor skating. Once he does get it, he can make a pass if it is there in front of him but if it isn’t he doesn’t make too many mistakes. That can skew the analytics because he isn’t trying to exit the zone, jsut trying to not get burned. This is why he would be in the 40’s percentile in exits but 80’s percentile in success relative to other players. HE only exits successfully when there is a play and space. At least he doesn’t try to exit when there isn’t a play. HE eats it or he doesn’t have the puck because his D-Partner is better at retrieving pucks.

Where Hoef is good:
1> Offensive zone puck movement. HE glides across the line effectively. He anticipates well with solid O-Zone instincts so he is in the right place at the right time to intercept clearing plays. Again, with the puck he has decent short stride footwork so he can move well laterally. HE is not the type of player to penetrate it the slot with the puck but he is great at seeing the play offensively and making the pass. That reflects in his numbers.
2> He has a great shot. That is reflected in his stellar shooting numbers. HE manages to get puck through because he is adept at the one timer so lanes are still open when he releases the puck. HE also doesn’t stand there and bang away with a clapper into skin pads like Okhotyuk. If there is no lane, he looks to pass which maintains possession. Because of the quality of the forwards he plays with, he usually gets that puck back again.

Some of these observations are right there in the analytics. However, with a lack of sample sizing and the sheer gap in quality of opposition at the CHL level, the two can combine to significantly improve stats or even degrade stats. If his eight games are against top 8 OHL teams, vs bottom 6 OHL teams, you will see a vast difference in success. Also, he will be fine against a weighty team but not as fine against a speedy team. He is exposed by speed but not by size of opposition.

Keep in mind that I am not being harsh on Hoef as an OHL D-Man, He is what he is. There are significant gaps in his game that remain hidden because of the quality of team he plays with combined with the vast difference between top opposition and bottom opposition. HE is wayyyy better than a 16 year old rookie but not necessarily close to being as overall effective as his 19 and 20 year old counterparts playing as #1 or #2 D-Men on other top 6 OHL teams.

If pressed to do so, I would probably pick 10 to 15 other D-Men I’d rather have from other rosters before I’d pick Hoef. Based on there being 20 other teams, that still puts him in lofty territory but from the perspective of dominance, he is mostly one dimensional. I feel that perspective isn’t misplaced. IT is also the reason why a potential 100 point OA D-Man remains unsigned. What he does do very well at the OHL level does not translate in the NHL or even AHL. He is an important piece of the Ottawa roster but his talents lie almost exclusively in the offensive zone.
Click to expand...

YADA YADA YADA.

Bottom line: This team is much better when he is in the line-up than when he is not.
 
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SidSixpointSeven

Registered User
Nov 1, 2019
42
47
Special matinee game that's free to the public. I originally thought it was the school day game but I believe that took place in the fall against Sudbury. I believe this is strictly a promotional thing. Be interesting to see what attendance is like.
 
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44 95 plus tax

Registered User
Oct 6, 2009
446
166
SidSixpointSeven said:
Special matinee game that's free to the public. I originally thought it was the school day game but I believe that took place in the fall against Sudbury. I believe this is strictly a promotional thing. Be interesting to see what attendance is like.
Click to expand...

It was originally a second school day game, but since the teachers are on work to rule they cannot do school trips, so the 67's opened this game up to the public.
 
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67hockeyfan

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Sep 30, 2017
239
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Looks like a different team this morning compared to the one that played in Sudbury (I guess the extra practice yesterday is having an impact).
 

mianjo

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Jan 16, 2009
15,681
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Reposting the goals as the OHL keeps changing the scorers

1ST 2:59 #92 Graeme Clarke (8) scores. Assists: #10 Cameron Tolnai, #26 Alec Belanger

1ST 8:00 #10 Cameron Tolnai (5) scores. Assists: #88 Kevin Bahl, #92 Graeme Clarke Power

1ST 8:20 #25 Daylon Groulx (14) scores. Assists: #9 Austen Keating, #23 Marco Rossi

1ST 15:15 #24 Joseph Garreffa (32) scores. Assists: #10 Cameron Tolnai, #92 Graeme Clarke

2ND 0:16 #23 Marco Rossi (34) scores. Assists: #9 Austen Keating

2ND 4:35 #22 Jack Quinn (47) scores. Assists: #17 Mitchell Hoelscher, #28 Nikita Okhotyuk
 
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