Line Combos: Ottawa 2016-2017 thoughts

[aragorn]

I think it's a bit disingenuous to brush of the injuries to Turris and MacArthur (not to mention Michalek who was the guy expected to help insulate us from injury issues to the forward corps) as the norm.

We didn't just have injuries, we had significant injuries that any rational person would expect to have a significant influence on the end results. No team expects to lose a top 6 winger all year, and their #1 center for a large chunk of it (and playing significantly injured most of the games he did play).

We shouldn't expect all our players to play 82 games, but we can and probably should expect a healthier season than what just happened.

The trap however, is thinking that we were a bubble team last season, and the return of Turris/MacA will turn us into a sure fire playoff team. The reality is we were a bubble team which injuries took out of contention for the wildcard. The real question is does adding Phaneuf (over Wier/Cow) and a new coaching staff turn this team from a bubble team to a solid playoff team. I think so, but I don't expect us to crack the 100 pts threshold.

Agreed, good post. I expect Ottawa to be in the range of 94 to 100 pts but we also have to keep in mind that they will be starting off with a whole new coaching staff & new systems to learn which could take some time to master. Hopefully, they get off to a good start & don't find themselves in a big hole to start the yr. Playing catch up in a league of parity would be pretty tough.

 

[HoffStoneKarl*]

I think it's a bit disingenuous to brush of the injuries to Turris and MacArthur (not to mention Michalek who was the guy expected to help insulate us from injury issues to the forward corps) as the norm.

We didn't just have injuries, we had significant injuries that any rational person would expect to have a significant influence on the end results. No team expects to lose a top 6 winger all year, and their #1 center for a large chunk of it (and playing significantly injured most of the games he did play).

We shouldn't expect all our players to play 82 games, but we can and probably should expect a healthier season than what just happened.

The trap however, is thinking that we were a bubble team last season, and the return of Turris/MacA will turn us into a sure fire playoff team. The reality is we were a bubble team which injuries took out of contention for the wildcard. The real question is does adding Phaneuf (over Wier/Cow) and a new coaching staff turn this team from a bubble team to a solid playoff team. I think so, but I don't expect us to crack the 100 pts threshold.

I'm not being disingenuous at all. I think aside from, Stone, MacArthur is our most complete winger. Losing him was a huge blow to the team. I am worried that after missing a full season and with his injury history, he won't be as good as he was 2 seasons ago.

IMO Ottawa continues to be a bubble team as the only thing they've done to improve the team is add Phanuef. While that's a big improvement, Ottawa is still a team that has consistently gives up the most shots in the league.

If we stay healthy, we should be a bubble team. If we can add to the team, we might be able to make some noise in the east.

On a side note, I really don't like the way our bottom 6 is looking right now

 

[trentmccleary]

We don't have a lot of depth. Injuries happen, and Ottawa wasnt able to get the job done when those injuries happened last year.

Hopefully Phaneuf and a new coach can make this team better, but I definitely understand why some fans won't be optimistic that we make the playoffs if there aren't additions to the roster by October

I don't think many teams could absorb two top-6 injuries, especially if one was your 2nd best forward.

The team weathered the injury to MacArthur very well. Smith did quite well filling in.

The team was less able to handle the injury to Turris, though the worst of that may have been while Turris was trying to play and not when he was finally shut down. The great thing here though, is that we should all feel more comfortable with Pageau should Zibanejad go down.

In the past, an injury to Methot was crippling because it meant Cowen, Wiercioch, Boro down the left side. With Phaneuf and Methot, we're much better able to handle an injury to either one.

Karlsson would be critical, nothing you can do about that.
We have two 1st RW's, but little behind them.

Anderson could present a big problem over a long term injury. I have faith in Hammond for a dozen games, but longer could really hurt.

Just take a look at the roster, imagine a player injured and see what happens to their line and ones behind it. Like past injuries to Methot were deadly. How many positions do we have like that now?

Where is our depth compromised?
How does it compare to these teams?

 

[HoffStoneKarl*]

I don't think many teams could absorb two top-6 injuries, especially if one was your 2nd best forward.

The team weathered the injury to MacArthur very well. Smith did quite well filling in.

The team was less able to handle the injury to Turris, though the worst of that may have been while Turris was trying to play and not when he was finally shut down. The great thing here though, is that we should all feel more comfortable with Pageau should Zibanejad go down.

In the past, an injury to Methot was crippling because it meant Cowen, Wiercioch, Boro down the left side. With Phaneuf and Methot, we're much better able to handle an injury to either one.

Karlsson would be critical, nothing you can do about that.
We have two 1st RW's, but little behind them.

Anderson could present a big problem over a long term injury. I have faith in Hammond for a dozen games, but longer could really hurt.

Just take a look at the roster, imagine a player injured and see what happens to their line and ones behind it. Like past injuries to Methot were deadly. How many positions do we have like that now?

Where is our depth compromised?

All very valid points. Only the top teams can handle injuries to some of their top players and continue to compete.

Which is why I am optimistic that if Ottawa can stay healthy they should sneak into the playoffs again

 

[Micklebot]

I'm not being disingenuous at all. I think aside from, Stone, MacArthur is our most complete winger. Losing him was a huge blow to the team. I am worried that after missing a full season and with his injury history, he won't be as good as he was 2 seasons ago.

IMO Ottawa continues to be a bubble team as the only thing they've done to improve the team is add Phanuef. While that's a big improvement, Ottawa is still a team that has consistently gives up the most shots in the league.

If we stay healthy, we should be a bubble team. If we can add to the team, we might be able to make some noise in the east.

On a side note, I really don't like the way our bottom 6 is looking right now

Here's the problem, you're combining two separate things;

You say all teams get injuries, and we weren't able to. this implies our injuries were no different than what an average team should expect to suffer. That's disingenuous.

Now, your saying you are afraid that MacArthur won't be able to return to his pre-concussion form. This is a valid concern, but has little to do with us not being able to deal with injuries. Further, guys like Paul and Dzingel have passed McCormick and Dzuirynski on the depth chart. That makes us better able to withstand an injury than we were early on last season. MacArthur coming back, even if not up to his pre-concussion standards does improve this team compared to last year, and the move of Smith to LW seems to have helped too (something we weren't doing prior to Turris' injuries.

That said, easily the biggest factor to our season was Turris' injury issues: 17 games in he badly bangs up his shoulder against NYR and the 9 games later he suffers a high ankle sprain against NYI. Teams generally try to survive when their #1 center goes down, rarely do teams not suffer greatly when they only get 17 healthy games from their #1 pivot.

 

[HoffStoneKarl*]

Here's the problem, you're combining two separate things;

You say all teams get injuries, and we weren't able to. this implies our injuries were no different than what an average team should expect to suffer. That's disingenuous.

Now, your saying you are afraid that MacArthur won't be able to return to his pre-concussion form. This is a valid concern, but has little to do with us not being able to deal with injuries. Further, guys like Paul and Dzingel have passed McCormick and Dzuirynski on the depth chart. That makes us better able to withstand an injury than we were early on last season. MacArthur coming back, even if not up to his pre-concussion standards does improve this team compared to last year, and the move of Smith to LW seems to have helped too (something we weren't doing prior to Turris' injuries.

That said, easily the biggest factor to our season was Turris' injury issues: 17 games in he badly bangs up his shoulder against NYR and the 9 games later he suffers a high ankle sprain against NYI. Teams generally try to survive when their #1 center goes down, rarely do teams not suffer greatly when they only get 17 healthy games from their #1 pivot.

I don't think I'm explaining my point well.

I'm not brushing off the injuries that we had last year, more just stating that as a bubble team we simply can't afford to have big injuries and still compete.

We aren't at the level of Tampa or Pittsburgh who have lost some of their best players to injuries and can still make the playoffs.

You make a really good point about our depth players. We are in a better position to know who to call up this time around.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

I don't think I'm explaining my point well.

I'm not brushing off the injuries that we had last year, more just stating that as a bubble team we simply can't afford to have big injuries and still compete.

We aren't at the level of Tampa or Pittsburgh who have lost some of their best players to injuries and can still make the playoffs.

You make a really good point about our depth players. We are in a better position to know who to call up this time around.

The reason those teams can still play well in the face of injuries is because of their coaching. They have a staff that implements systems and changes that get the most out of their lineups. For example Pittsburgh didn't look like they could withstand a stiff breeze earlier this season. A new coach and all of a sudden they're resilient and 2 games away from the Cup. Funny that.

Hopefully this will apply to the Sens. I'm optimistic because I seem to remember Boucher doing well with some big holes in their lineup. Replacing Cameron is worth more than signing any UFA who is out there this year. I'll take our lineup and good coaching over our lineup + Stamkos with Cameron at the helm.

 

[HoffStoneKarl*]

The reason those teams can still play well in the face of injuries is because of their coaching. They have a staff that implements systems and changes that get the most out of their lineups. For example Pittsburgh didn't look like they could withstand a stiff breeze earlier this season. A new coach and all of a sudden they're resilient and 2 games away from the Cup. Funny that.

Hopefully this will apply to the Sens. I'm optimistic because I seem to remember Boucher doing well with some big holes in their lineup. Replacing Cameron is worth more than signing any UFA who is out there this year. I'll take our lineup and good coaching over our lineup + Stamkos with Cameron at the helm.

I find coaching tough to predict, which is why I usually just base my evaluation on the players.

The best this team has looked in 5 years was when McLean was fired and Cameron took over. And then he went full idiot last year.

I'm not going to use the new coaching staff as a reason for why this team will improve until I see how they play under Boucher and Crawford. I will be optimistic about the new coaches though

 

[J0sh]

how about

mac turris ryan
hoff zibby stone
filatov dacosta radulov
smith pageau lazar

 

[Icelevel]

how about

mac turris ryan
hoff zibby stone
filatov dacosta radulov
smith pageau lazar

there's only one good line in there

 

[Hutz]

how about

mac turris ryan
hoff zibby stone
filatov dacosta radulov
smith pageau lazar

Where's Andre Petersson?

 

[TheNewEra]

I find coaching tough to predict, which is why I usually just base my evaluation on the players.

The best this team has looked in 5 years was when McLean was fired and Cameron took over. And then he went full idiot last year.

I'm not going to use the new coaching staff as a reason for why this team will improve until I see how they play under Boucher and Crawford. I will be optimistic about the new coaches though

When Cameron took over we had all the right injuries so our lines made sense and Hammond channeled his inner hasek. Many people on here were legit worried of Cameron doing exactly what Cameron did last year

 

[HoffStoneKarl*]

When Cameron took over we had all the right injuries so our lines made sense and Hammond channeled his inner hasek. Many people on here were legit worried of Cameron doing exactly what Cameron did last year

Yup, and rightfully so, just like I think people should put off on saying Boucher will solve this teams defensive problems (not saying that you've said that but I've already read it a lot on here)

 

[DrEasy]

When Cameron took over we had all the right injuries so our lines made sense and Hammond channeled his inner hasek. Many people on here were legit worried of Cameron doing exactly what Cameron did last year

I agree, injuries >> coaching

 

[topshelf15]

The defense should improve ,but there has to be a buy in from all of our forwards.Specifically ones that play on the left side,Phaneuf and Methot are much better than what we have had in the previous few years .But they are going to need a forward always coming back in support ,also having this support will allow these two big men .To step up on the blueline and punish some forwards coming into the zone

 

[Micklebot]

Yup, and rightfully so, just like I think people should put off on saying Boucher will solve this teams defensive problems (not saying that you've said that but I've already read it a lot on here)

People aren't expecting Boucher to be the next Hitchcock in terms of defensive systems, they're just don't expect him to be as obviously terrible as Cameron was.

Replacing terrible with just bad is still a big improvement.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I don't see why we shouldn't think Boucher could solve the team's defensive problems.

Considering what he did with an abysmal defense in Tampa, I think it's reasonable to expect the team will play tighter hockey.

Certainly conceivable that he fails to get certain players to buy-in but I choose to believe he'll get through to the most important players: your best players being your best players night-in and night-out is what matters anyway.

 

[Canadian Time]

Not to mention having an associate coach with over 1000 games coached in the NHL. It's hardly pie-in-the-sky thinking that these two are going to improve defensive play, the PP and PK.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

We're still limited by our roster, no matter who is coach.

 

[armani]

Those of you starving for some sports entertainment action should tune into Euro 2016. The opening game was da bomb!

 

[Willy Stylez]

McArthur Turris Ryan
Hoffman Backes/Zibby Stone
Smith Zibby/Pageau Nylander
Puempel Pageau Neil/Dzingel

Methot Karlsson
Phaneuf Ceci
Chabot/Englund Wideman

* Sign Backes if a reasonable term/salary can be agreed on.
* Try to trade up for Nylander if his still available at #10 (Won't be avail i know, but in a draft everything can happend and sometimes they can fall). Karlsson and Nylander on the PP... GG.

 

[HoffStoneKarl*]

Nice but I don't think Nylander in NHL ready

 

[Willy Stylez]

Nice but I don't think Nylander in NHL ready

Yeah feeling the same way, we will see where he stand after the summer, Hopefully he gets the same development under the summer as his brother got last year, gaaaainz. And then he can have a chance, but it's not easy.. A start in the AHL wouldnt be a bad either. I like the thought about Nylander with the Sens.

 

[HoffStoneKarl*]

Yeah feeling the same way, we will see where he stand after the summer, Hopefully he gets the same development under the summer as his brother got last year, gaaaainz. And then he can have a chance, but it's not easy.. A start in the AHL wouldnt be a bad either. I like the thought about Nylander with the Sens.

Same, but I doubt he's there at 12, and I'd be surprised if Ottawa pays the price to move up to take him

 

[BonkTastic]

I'm legit excited to see what Phaneuf can do with a full training camp, under a good coach, with a good supporting cast, and without the pressure of having to be the #1 defenceman in a media market like Toronto.

I think a lot of people forget that Phaneuf's supposed downturn coencided almost exactly with the Randy Carlyle era in Toronto, a system-less era that either outright killed or seriously maimed the statistical output of almost everyone in the Leafs org. If you're a CORSI guy, then doubly so for possession stats.

Not saying he's going to come in and steal Karlsson's Norris, obviously, but I think he can be a lethal #2 guy if everything goes perfectly, and at worst he's a rock solid anchor on the 2nd pairing. He's going see a ton of time on the PK as well as the PP.

People who are looking at his contract and dismissing him outright need to give the guy an honest chance. If by game 40 he still looks like "Carlyle's Phaneuf", then fine... but I think he's going to be a horse for us.